The Lost Generation of Catholics

[scylla]

Yes we need to get rid of the “Spirit of Vatican II” as it is an evil development.

What we need is an authentic faithful implementation of Vatican II. Just read the documents and see if the stripping of the Churches and the removal of Jesus as center of the worship was part of Vatican II.

What brought many people into the Church was Vatican II but not the “Spirit of Vatican II” or else those people might as well just be Protestant. So was it the complaining of rules, the irreverence, the hatred for tradition, the gay priests, etc…etc…

Or was it the encouragement of the vernacular, the encouragement for participation in worship and the more friendly attitude toward those who have poor relationships with the Church? I am sure this is what attracts most converts as it doesn’t seem so intimidating and the Church is able to share the truth and beauty She possesses. This is what Vatican II encourages.

Definitely not the heretical ideas, like we have experienced. These need to be purged and the the faith needs to be allowed to be expressed.

I too am part of the lost generation as even as I try to be involved the old guard still stubbornly fights to keep reforming the Church in their image. I tried to get involved in RCIA and had to endure them endorsing women priests and complaining how bad the Church is. These people are in charge of many parishes and it will take a long time for them to die out.
Faithful Catholicism is out for them and we need to change the Church as it oppresses and still needs more change.

Does God change, our Church is 2000 years old. Or do they just want a modern Church that changes to whims and sinful desires?

In Christ
Scylla

 

[netmilsmom]

Well perhaps because you use terms like “Happy Catholic” which to me seems insulting. You belittle what some feel is very important and vital in the Catholic church. I think working in your parishes to make changes is the best way to go. Offer to lead devotions. You’d be surprised how many priests just are not doing it because no one wants to. Sometimes you have to breathe a little life back into these old priests.

Reread post 6. You may be able to “breathe some life” I was looking to “Breathe some Catholic” into the parish.
It’s not the priests, it’s the laity who don’t want to lose power.

“Happy Catholic” is taken from my old DRE. She wanted everyone to be happy and didn’t care as much about the CCC teaching.
You can take it as an insult but it is meant as a way to clarify those who want the joy and happiness of being Catholic without the responsibility. If that fits you, you may be “Happy Catholic” if not, than it isn’t about you.

 

[netmilsmom]

That "60’s style fun/Kumbaya/"Folk Masses " are among the prime reasons that made the Mass irreverant & irrelevant for me and drove me into bitter agnoticism for 21 years. And whenI walk through the doors and see a drum & guitar set-up I want to turn around.

I don’t like the holding hands during the Our Father–and people who turn the Sign of Peace into a social occasion-PU-LEAZE!

Ok, another 46 year old curmudgeon gets off his soapbox

Shhhhhhh. No one wants to hear that! You need to get used to it or get up and fight for change (that will simply make you a pariah in your parish)
No matter what, the fault is yours, don’t ya know !

 

[netmilsmom]

It sounds like you found a parish that suits you. Good! Me too. I like the one in my neighborhood now, although I didn’t for a long time. I’m sort on ensconced where I am now and don’t want to change. I hope the OP finds the right parish home too.

Sometimes getting involved doesn’t help. That’s true. But I did get involved in Mother’s Club and Scouts when my kids were young and helped bring about some major changes there. Meetings alternated day and night for parents with jobs and van pools organized for the parents of the kids who were bussed in from other parts of town. We even got air-conditioning in the schools, not because it’s hot but because kids with asthma and allergies need it. Things can be changed if the circumstances are right.

God Bless you!
You sound like you got some needed change for the school!
I volunteer too (I’m called to clean bathrooms - gee, thank You Lord )
But did any of what accomplish change an innovative liturgy to an historical one? That is what, I think the OP is talking about.

 

[daeve]

God Bless you!
You sound like you got some needed change for the school!
I volunteer too (I’m called to clean bathrooms - gee, thank You Lord )
But did any of what accomplish change an innovative liturgy to an historical one? That is what, I think the OP is talking about.

All you can do is try. And try again. And again. But if you feel disenfranchised, you’ve got choices: Work for change, Tolerate, or Haul Out. We’re not restricted to specific parishes today, so you can go find what you need.

The school they went to in Brooklyn was a closed shop. My contribution was not wanted, needed or accepted. I was always an outsider to some extent, although not as much as the few Non-Italians (like my ex-husband). At the parish, I was more accepted until my marriage ended. Then they really withdrew. I was told they needed to “re-think” my positions in the parish. Suddenly I wasn’t accepted as a Cathecist or the editor of the bulletin. Put me off for a long time. I think I’m abandoning the topic, so I’ll stop.

My kids went to public school and they have janitors for bathrooms. I don’t want to clean my own much less one in a public place.

 

[anamchara]

You can take it as an insult but it is meant as a way to clarify those who want the joy and happiness of being Catholic without the responsibility. If that fits you, you may be “Happy Catholic” if not, than it isn’t about you.

You were saying that those “Happy Catholics” have problems with you whinning, well maybe it’s because you are calling them Happy Catholics was my point. It is an insult, you obviously had issue with this DRE and this was the word you came up with. I think the problem is putting everyone into the catergory of your either a “happy Catholic” or your my way which is the only way and the right way.

We need to meet somewhere in the middle.

 

[netmilsmom]

All you can do is try. And try again. And again. But if you feel disenfranchised, you’ve got choices: Work for change, Tolerate, or Haul Out. We’re not restricted to specific parishes today, so you can go find what you need.

Exactly!!!
The problem is that at the same time you and I know this, people come on the board and tell us not to parish shop.
I feel that moving one’s time and talents to a parish that meets one’s needs is an option.

My kids went to public school and they have janitors for bathrooms. I don’t want to clean my own much less one in a public place.

Yeah, me too. But we have around 900 families, with an average of four children. Some of us saw the need and took the ball on it.

Trust me, it’s a ministry I would rather skip (specially after a K4J meeting. Who knows the surprises in the men’s room), but if other moms can don the rubber gloves and masks, so can I!!!

 

[the_phoenix]

The family is So Important in situations like this.

The good part about the parish where I grew up was that the pastor agreed with the Pope. That said, the good pastor was, with a few notable exceptions such as a wonderful nun who gave to the poor and taught religion, absolutely surrounded by liberals and lukewarm parishioners. And for whatever reason, whether voice and/or way of speaking, I barely could understand the words when the pastor gave a sermon.

One of our specially hired, allegedly “professional” singers was so inept and off-key that one day people actually laughed … nervous laughter it seemed to me … at a particularly glaring sour note. Since the paid singers who were supposed to lead everyone were so poor at singing that they could not carry even a simple tune, many parishioners tended to not sing, or else would sing so low it was like a whisper. Sometimes when I sang it felt like I was doing a duet with the professional singer way on the other side of the church, because I enjoyed singing loud and strong, even though there’s absolutely no way I could ever be a professional. (I could at least either stay on pitch or harmonize, however.)

When one of the other priests gave a sermon, mom would teach us kids about the Catholic faith on the way home in the car by asking, “What did the priest say in his sermon that disagreed with the Pope, and why was it wrong?” This is how I learned about the error of Liberation Theology.

I attended Catholic school in the diocese until my mother took a look at the religion book we were using and found it to be unacceptably watered down. At which point, she put me in public school and home-schooled me in religion, as well as, she then volunteered herself to be a religion teacher so that she could reach at least some children with authentic Catholic teaching in the fullness of its riches.

Without my parents and grandparents setting good examples by attending Mass and Confession and taking me with them, talking about God, praying the Rosary, telling me about the saints and Mother Teresa while she was in action, inviting active missionary priests who were distant relatives or close family friends over for special family gatherings, and doing all these things with enthusiasm … I would likely have ended up wandering in a spiritual desert supported only by the manna provided by the good pastor confecting the Holy Eucharist, if I had had to depend only on the parish of my youth.

~~ the phoenix

 

[netmilsmom]

You were saying that those “Happy Catholics” have problems with you whinning, well maybe it’s because you are calling them Happy Catholics was my point. It is an insult, you obviously had issue with this DRE and this was the word you came up with. I think the problem is putting everyone into the catergory of your either a “happy Catholic” or your my way which is the only way and the right way.

We need to meet somewhere in the middle.

No, I said multiple times that when anyone states on this board that they have a problem with innovative or community centered masses, they are accused of whining and told to do someting about it.

When people have tried this route only to be isolated in their parishes.

You’re right, we need to meet in the middle which means the innovators have to budge, not dig their heels in and tell everyone that this is the way it is.

I’ve also stated many a time on this board that every mass should be offered. You want a mass with innovation, cool. I want a reverent, non-community centered Holy Mass with a sprinking of Latin and Greek. While your mass is offered liberally in most diocese, you would be hard pressed to find mine.

I would fight to the death if someone tried to take away your style of liturgy. The problem is that those who like that liturgy consider those of us who want an EWTN mass, the enemy, old-fashion or backward.

In this day and age, it’s a waste of time to isolate a group of Catholics. Pitifully, it’s done every day in some Diocese.

 

[Karianne]

I am 21 and also feel like I too am part of a lost generation of Catholics. I attend a Jesuit University and try to attend daily mass, but typically there are no more than 3 students and as for Sunday masses lets just say there arent many going. Our chapel is practically empty.

Even when I go to my parents home for the holidays at our parish its like all the college kids dont even go to mass anymore. Its saddening.

Maybe its a young adult stage where no one values their faith, and those of us who try to are labeled as extremists.

Peace be with you all,

Regis University Student

Back in the old days (1950s) churches did a whole lot more for your age group, they would have dances where young Catholics could meet and greet, a few of my married friends actually found their spouses this way.

I have no idea why that doesn’t go on anymore, in the Jewish community, at least in MY area, they still have special events for the 21-35 age group and they’re well attended.

If we lose this bunch of people we may lose their children as well, that would be a bad thing. Especially if they find comfort and community in a Protestant Church.

I honestly don’t think that it’s due to any particular disagreement with the Church either, I think that it’s inertia on the part of the parents who perhaps need to be encouraged to start doing these things again.
Maybe we should ask the Jewish community how they manage.

 

[Karianne]

Well perhaps because you use terms like “Happy Catholic” which to me seems insulting. You belittle what some feel is very important and vital in the Catholic church. I think working in your parishes to make changes is the best way to go. Offer to lead devotions. You’d be surprised how many priests just are not doing it because no one wants to. Sometimes you have to breathe a little life back into these old priests.

That “happy catholic” term offends me as well, I enjoy the Mass, I enjoy shaking hands with my neighbor at Mass (after all, it’s a community event)
and I don’t think that makes my devotion any less valid.

 

[Karianne]

That "60’s style fun/Kumbaya/"Folk Masses " are among the prime reasons that made the Mass irreverant & irrelevant for me and drove me into bitter agnoticism for 21 years. And whenI walk through the doors and see a drum & guitar set-up I want to turn around.

I don’t like the holding hands during the Our Father–and people who turn the Sign of Peace into a social occasion-PU-LEAZE!

Ok, another 46 year old curmudgeon gets off his soapbox

Well, I disagree with you, I happen to get a lot more spiritually out of the Guitar Masses. In Africa, they actually have drums during Mass…I bet that you would HATE that!
I also like holding hands, I like acknowledging my bros and sisters during the kiss of Peace occasion.
FYI, getting the musicians and the instruments all set up and ready to play is no easy thing-those that handle our music ministry do a lot of work.
Most of our Masses are not that musical, most are the type you like, but I can honestly tell you that if I miss the guitar Mass I do not grumble about it…I just go to the quieter ones.

 

[netmilsmom]

I enjoy the Mass, I enjoy shaking hands with my neighbor at Mass (after all, it’s a community event) and I don’t think that makes my devotion any less valid.

From here…
catholic.com/library/cag_ecclesia_de_eucharista.asp

The Pope stresses:

				“The Eucharist is a sacrifice in the strict sense, and 					not only in a general way, as if it were simply a matter 					of Christ’s offering himself to the faithful as their spiritual 					food. The gift of his love and obedience to the point 					of giving his life is in the first place a gift to his Father. 					Certainly it is a gift given for our sake, and indeed that 					of all humanity, yet it is first and foremost a gift to the 					Father” (13).
				
				Against the horizontal or community-centered approach 					taken in many parishes, the Pope reminds us that 					the primary dimension of the Eucharist is vertical or 					God-centered: The Eucharist makes present Christ’s sacrifice 					in which he gives himself in love to the Father for 					our sake.

 

[Karin]

From here…
catholic.com/library/cag_ecclesia_de_eucharista.asp

The Pope stresses:

“The Eucharist is a sacrifice in the strict sense, and not only in a general way, as if it were simply a matter of Christ’s offering himself to the faithful as their spiritual food. The gift of his love and obedience to the point of giving his life is in the first place a gift to his Father. Certainly it is a gift given for our sake, and indeed that of all humanity, yet it is first and foremost a gift to the Father” (13).

Against the horizontal or community-centered approach taken in many parishes, the Pope reminds us that the primary dimension of the Eucharist is vertical or God-centered: The Eucharist makes present Christ’s sacrifice in which he gives himself in love to the Father for our sake.

does that mean no “touchy-feely” or “happy - clappy” nonsense is allowed
Thank goodness!!!

 

[netmilsmom]

does that mean no “touchy-feely” or “happy - clappy” nonsense is allowed
Thank goodness!!!

Now you’re gonna get us all in trouble!!

 

[mary_bobo]

I belong to the Lost Generation of Catholics.

There are so many complaints about the number of Catholics attending Mass decreasing. Did anyone ever think that maybe this happens when you ignore an entire generation of Catholics??

There’s nothing wrong with various generations being reached through their own particular style and context. But what happens when you’ve been skipped over and you don’t have anything that reaches out and hits a chord within you? What happens if all you have to choose from is the Kumbaya Style of the 1960’s or the “Let’s deal with being a teenager!” style?? Yes, the Mass is all about the Eucharist - but what if you can’t go to Mass without being constantly distracted, led into wishy-washy theology and having your space invaded by pushy people who demand that you hold their hand?

I’ve caught a wee glimmer of my generation shining through - in the music of bands such as “Crispin”, “Critical Mass” and some of Father Stan Fortuna’s songs. (He is geared more towards young Catholics but some of his songs reflect the funky jazzy style of my generation. **All **of his music is absolutely fantastic!!)

But…even with these glimmers peeping through I still feel as if my generation is invisible and we’ve been totally skipped over, as well as largely un-educated, by the Church. My generation has had to basically educate ourselves about the Faith and “raise ourselves” without much support or encouragement. When will we start to exist?

From the gatherings I have attended where many of my generation have been present I have seen a great love of Eucharistic Adoration, public recitation of the Rosary, classic hymns, Marian devotion and many of the other practices you don’t often see in post 1960’s parishes. Why is this? Why can’t we have both the fresh freedom style of the 1960’s **and **the sacred devotions and practices? It all seems a bit greedy to expect that only one type of Catholic is allowed to be supported within the Church. The rest get ignored.

From what I’ve observed my generation seems to want to focus on Jesus at Mass and community **after **Mass. So things like having a coffee/tea social hour after Mass is right up our alley. But listening to someone discuss their day on a cell phone three pews down is not.

We also seem to enjoy churches that are decorated - we don’t seem to be into the bare empty church thing. We don’t necessarily need to have only the old fashioned style of art. The modern art deffinately has it’s place. But having an empty church removes that sense of the sacred that we seem to crave. It feels more like a meeting hall then a Catholic church. .

The problem with being the Generation That Never Was is that there are very few parishes where we feel as if we are a part of the Church.

The 1960’s generation have had their fun for the past 47 years. Can it move over now and make some room for us late 20 through early 40-somethings??

Can we have the crucifix back? And the decorations? The high altar? And the confessional where we can indulge in anomnimity? Can we save the band for after Mass - and have the organ returned to its place in the choir loft? (with a choir as well?) And the kneelers - I really enjoy kneeling when I pray and I don’t feel that my self-esteem has been damaged by such a humble posture - If anything it’s kept me from getting too full of my own liberated self importance!

Can we save the socializing for after Mass? Mass is a sacred time - and the half hour before Mass should be a quiet time to reflect and pray and prepare ourselves. Visiting is great fun - after Mass.

I think that there are more then enough Catholic parishes dedicated to teenagers and the folks from the 1960’s. Isn’t it time to move over, make some room for us…and share?

I am tired of being invisible.

I agree with so much of what you say. I returned to the Church about two years ago after many years away and I thought I had come to a protestant church. And as time has progressed, and I have been on this forum, I have noticed that so many are poorly catechized. In addition to that, those of us who like a more formal setting and a more respectful Mass are made fun of by other members on the forum who like jazzy Masses and guitars, drums, etc. The church I attend has some of that and I always wonder if I have really been to Mass or not. Surely there must be a happy medium somewhere. I suspect that some on this forum who are so dismissive of these kinds of thoughts are fairly young and resist anything that have a modicum of traditionality. I don’t put down their kind of Mass and I sure as heck do not appreciate their putting down my preference especially when they probably have not attended a more traditional Mass.

 

[Karin]

Now you’re gonna get us all in trouble!!

Nah …but I do wonder what the heck people think Mass is…some folks are posting descriptions of a “Happy Hour”, guitars, bands, drums etc. I wonder if they roll out the Disco ball too

 

[netmilsmom]

Nah …but I do wonder what the heck people think Mass is…some folks are posting descriptions of a “Happy Hour”, guitars, bands, drums etc. I wonder if they roll out the Disco ball too

Well maybe changing “Happy Catholic” to “Happy Hour Catholic” will win over some people.

 

[Karin]

what I dont understand is why folks need the happy clappy junk to make them want to go to mass?!?!?
Oh well…all I can say is that I am very happy with my old world church and our lack of guitars, drums, hand holding and other “happy -hour- clappy” mass things that certain folks require or enjoy!

Well maybe changing “Happy Catholic” to “Happy Hour Catholic” will win over some people.

 

[hoosiertoo]

I fail to see how the traditionalists EDIT are persecuted when I’m almost positive that it’s the other way around. I’ve seen far more “happy-clappy” references than I have to “toe-tags.”

That said, I generally find the more-or-less modern music at my parish to be cringe-inducing.

I’m a liturgical moderate (can’t we all just get along? ) Community is important and the race to the parking lot after Mass doesn’t leave much time for socializing.

We have a coffee and donuts meeting between masses, but I’m teaching CCD at that time and it’s only during the school year. after the late Mass there is nothing.

As I drive by the Prot church right next door on Sunday mornings on the way to Mass I can’t help but feel a little twinge of regret.

Being Catholic is very important to me but sometimes 13 miles is too far to have to drive to church just to have to turn around and come home.

If it wasn’t for CRHP I don’t know where I’d be.