The Lost Generation of Catholics

[netmilsmom]

Hi–maybe I’ve found the problem.

When anamchara said :I’ve read the OP and already gave my advice, our diocese has one sspx parish if that is what people want I don’t have issues with it as long as they don’t come on here and start belittling “modern” parishes.

But modern or traditional–we still worship the same God and we’re still brothers and sisters, and we can certainly get along. . .the happy-clappy toe-tagging lot of us.

Actually the whole thing started on another thread where the idea of having Altar Boys only was called “backward”

But let me tell you, I posted this on the NO thread a few days ago…(I got slammed by some traditionalists but stood by all these masses)
netmil(name removed by moderator):

I agree. One of each of these per Vicariate

1. TLM
2. Latin NO
3. Vernacular NO with Latin and Greek responses
4. Vernacular NO with innovation allowed
5. LifeTeen
6. Charismatic mass

Then no one can complain about not being able to get a liturgy as they like it.
It could work if we all work together.

Actually TE we are in full agreement.

 

[Julianna]

Depends on where the difference of opinion exists, in the realm of where divergence can be tolerated in legitimate discourse or if that opinion breaches the line between acceptable and erroneous.

Pope St. Pius X, Our Apostolic Mandate, 42

Everyone has a right to be respected as a person and child of God, but no one’s erroneous “opinions” have a right to be aired to the injury of the Faithful.

Come on Andrei…if someone comes on here and says they are a Democrat and Catholic…well…Katie Bar the Door…they will be met with fire and brimstone. The proof is in the posting. To say that someone’s faith could be injured by erroneous “opinion” seems to be far fetched. An opinion is just that, an opinion. The church is going through growing pains…once again. Getting our ducks in a row as Catholics seems to be the order of the day rather than beating people over the head for expressing their opinon, or even asking a question.

But then again, that is just my opinion.

 

[scared]

Julianna:

If you think that it is far fetched that someone spirituallity may be injured because of an errouneous opinion, you are very terribly mistaken. Do you know that most children especially in relation to religion believe what they hear? So when someone says something that has the potental to be damaging, and the person takes it as truth and follows it, then years later realizes it is wrong. Real spiritual damage is done by that persons opinion.

Oh and fire and brimestone was removed in VaticanII and getting our catholic ducks in a row, not quiet as important as healing those damaged souls. Remember we are called to seek out and find the hurt and lost souls and shepard them into the church.

scared

 

[netmilsmom]

Oh and fire and brimestone was removed in VaticanII and getting our catholic ducks in a row, not quiet as important as healing those damaged souls. Remember we are called to seek out and find the hurt and lost souls and shepard them into the church.

scared

I think the OP is one of those lost souls. I wish she would come back.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Come on Andrei…if someone comes on here and says they are a Democrat and Catholic…well…Katie Bar the Door…they will be met with fire and brimstone. The proof is in the posting.

Well, you gotta ask why they’re still Democrats since practically every Democrat supports abortion and many of them support gay “marriage” and other of the big issues that one cannot be a Catholic and vote for in good conscience.

Out of charity, I would assume that many Catholics are still Democrats because they were back in the day when Catholic and Democrat were like bread and butter. Or, their local Democratic candidate is basically a social-issue Republican but a fiscal Democrat (like some of my local Democrats).

To say that someone’s faith could be injured by erroneous “opinion” seems to be far fetched. An opinion is just that, an opinion. The church is going through growing pains…once again. Getting our ducks in a row as Catholics seems to be the order of the day rather than beating people over the head for expressing their opinon, or even asking a question.

Every apostacy, schism, and heresy starts as somebody’s “opinion”. I suggest you do some reading, Pius X’s encyclicals are a good place to start.

As John Henry Cardinal Newman said, “A thousand difficulties does not make one doubt.” There is a BIG difference between difficulties and ignorance and stubbornly maintaining opinions contrary to the Church. The Church never “beat people over the head for expressing their opinion, or even asking a question”. The Church handled even the modernists with the utmost patience and maternal concern.

 

[mnowlin1]

Every apostacy, schism, and heresy starts as somebody’s “opinion”. I suggest you do some reading, Pius X’s encyclicals are a good place to start.

In fact many of the issues mentioned here started as opinions…only to become entrenched and caved upon by the church. One only need to look at the reception of the Eucharist by hand as an example. Modernists and traditionalist labels aside…I should hope that everyone wants the same thing. That the mass is celebrated with the appropriate reverence and honor due our Savior.

 

[paramedicgirl]

aww how cute you are all ganging up on me now your calling me a modernists? and when did I belittle SSPX parihes or Traditional for that matter? Show me a posts where I did this? If you can’t find then one then perhaps I should report your post? We are going off topic and getting personal, I believe this not allowed, yes?

Who said anything about you belittling anyone? You did say this, though:

I’ve read the OP and already gave my advice, our diocese has one sspx parish if that is what people want I don’t have issues with it** as long as they don’t come on here and start belittling “modern” parishes**.

Maybe you are reading too much into it. All I’m saying is that there are two sides to every coin. If you don’t want traditionalists to belittle modernists, then I don’t want modernists to belittle tradionalists. Nowhere did I categorize you as either. I was speaking in broad, general terms.

 

[paramedicgirl]

You’re there! We are the Happy Toe Tag Team!!!
I think we should take Our Lady of Akita as our patron. What do you think?

I love it! Maybe we should all put Proud Member of the Happy Toe Tag Team in our sigs!

 

[anamchara]

Hi–maybe I’ve found the problem

.

Tantum, thanks you’re right on a few counts but let me correct you on at least one. I know full well the difference between tradtionalist and the sspx church. I think it is sad that our Church is split in this way.

The poster asked me “Is there one parish in your Diocese that has this?” Refering to a more scared time before and after mass and to be honest the only one that came to mind was our sspx parish which many are very happy at. I simply answered a question. The way that many in this thread have discribed what they think is a modern parish I can’t imagine them even being happy are our downtown cathedral which I think is fairly traditonal. I honestly don’t know of any parishes in my city that don’t allow altar girls or any of those things they’d consider modern. I could be wrong.

My parish was established in 1893 btw. So I wouldn’t call it modern.

I think the term “modern” is not a neutral word on here. It is obviously meant as a disparaging insult as it is often used in conjunction with such condescending phrases “Happy Catholic” and the like.

 

[Karianne]

Andrew Greely actually has some very lovely things to say about our faith, I wouldn’t write him off so quickly.

LOL…yes he does, and he started writing to expose some wrong-doing.

There are many here who can’t stand him and I know that you’re going to be attacked for your views.

 

[anamchara]

Maybe you are reading too much into it. All I’m saying is that there are two sides to every coin. If you don’t want traditionalists to belittle modernists, then I don’t want modernists to belittle tradionalists. Nowhere did I categorize you as either. I was speaking in broad, general terms.

What is your definition of “modernists”? I am curious.

 

[anamchara]

LOL…yes he does, and he started writing to expose some wrong-doing.

There are many here who can’t stand him and I know that you’re going to be attacked for your views.

It wouldn’t be the frist time my friend.

 

[Karianne]

From here…
catholic.com/library/cag_ecclesia_de_eucharista.asp

The Pope stresses:

				“The Eucharist is a sacrifice in the strict sense, and 					not only in a general way, as if it were simply a matter 					of Christ’s offering himself to the faithful as their spiritual 					food. The gift of his love and obedience to the point 					of giving his life is in the first place a gift to his Father. 					Certainly it is a gift given for our sake, and indeed that 					of all humanity, yet it is first and foremost a gift to the 					Father” (13).
				
				Against the horizontal or community-centered approach 					taken in many parishes, the Pope reminds us that 					the primary dimension of the Eucharist is vertical or 					God-centered: The Eucharist makes present Christ’s sacrifice 					in which he gives himself in love to the Father for 					our sake.

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Please use your own words, and maybe I’ll even agree with you.

 

[Karianne]

It wouldn’t be the frist time my friend.

No kidding, I’m new and I can see that you put up with a lot of abuse on this forum.

Interesting because you seem to have a sincere love of your faith and a genuine involvement with your own church.

I know that you’re tough and you can handle it and you’re smart so you always trounce their arguments but it’s just too sad that people come here to fight and patronize and criticize instead of pulling together.

 

[netmilsmom]

The poster asked me “Is there one parish in your Diocese that has this?” Refering to a more scared time before and after mass and to be honest the only one that came to mind was our sspx parish which many are very happy at. I simply answered a question. The way that many in this thread have discribed what they think is a modern parish I can’t imagine them even being happy are our downtown cathedral which I think is fairly traditonal. I honestly don’t know of any parishes in my city that don’t allow altar girls or any of those things they’d consider modern. I could be wrong.

No, the poster wasn’t refering to a more scared time, the poster was refering to the specifications of the OP on what she wanted.

Lets look again…

Quote:
Can we have the crucifix back? And the decorations? The high altar? And the confessional where we can indulge in anomnimity? Can we save the band for after Mass - and have the organ returned to its place in the choir loft? (with a choir as well?) And the kneelers - I really enjoy kneeling when I pray and I don’t feel that my self-esteem has been damaged by such a humble posture - If anything it’s kept me from getting too full of my own liberated self importance!
Can we save the socializing for after Mass? Mass is a sacred time - and the half hour before Mass should be a quiet time to reflect and pray and prepare ourselves. Visiting is great fun - after Mass.

I think that there are more then enough Catholic parishes dedicated to teenagers and the folks from the 1960’s. Isn’t it time to move over, make some room for us…and share?

I think the term “modern” is not a neutral word on here. It is obviously meant as a disparaging insult as it is often used in conjunction with such condescending phrases “Happy Catholic” and the like.

Oh but calling traditional thinking “backward” and sarcastically calling a parish “your perfect parish’” is just your opinion, right?

 

[Karianne]

Well, you gotta ask why they’re still Democrats since practically every Democrat supports abortion and many of them support gay “marriage” and other of the big issues that one cannot be a Catholic and vote for in good conscience.

Out of charity, I would assume that many Catholics are still Democrats because they were back in the day when Catholic and Democrat were like bread and butter. Or, their local Democratic candidate is basically a social-issue Republican but a fiscal Democrat (like some of my local Democrats).

Every apostacy, schism, and heresy starts as somebody’s “opinion”. I suggest you do some reading, Pius X’s encyclicals are a good place to start.

As John Henry Cardinal Newman said, “A thousand difficulties does not make one doubt.” There is a BIG difference between difficulties and ignorance and stubbornly maintaining opinions contrary to the Church. The Church never “beat people over the head for expressing their opinion, or even asking a question”. The Church handled even the modernists with the utmost patience and maternal concern.

I am a Catholic and I am a Democrat. If you dare to challenge my integrity as a Catholic you’d be in big trouble.
Many of the Catholics who are also Republican would make great Fundamentalists, THEY are the ones who are trying to ruin our pluralistic
church, not me.
They actually focus more on Abortion than on helping the mothers who might abort, they hate the idea of Gay unions even though no one believes that the church should be forced to perform Gay marriages.
And the lack of charity towards people who disagree with them is astonishing!
Isn’t a sin against charity even worse than a sin against sexual intemperance?
Isn’t the greatest of these…CHARITY?
There are people on this site who lack charity and who are proud of it so they lack humility as well.
And why are all these married women and mothers on the computer so much anyway? Who is taking care of their homes?

 

[ComradeAndrei]

The way that many in this thread have discribed what they think is a modern parish I can’t imagine them even being happy are our downtown cathedral which I think is fairly traditonal. I honestly don’t know of any parishes in my city that don’t allow altar girls or any of those things they’d consider modern. I could be wrong.

What makes it “traditional”?

My parish was established in 1893 btw. So I wouldn’t call it modern.

When a building was built or when there were enough people in an area for there to be a parish established does not determine if a parish is “contemporary” (for lack of a better word), modern(ist), or traditional.

I think the term “modern” is not a neutral word on here. It is obviously meant as a disparaging insult as it is often used in conjunction with such condescending phrases “Happy Catholic” and the like.

I don’t know for sure how other people use the term, but when I speak of “modernism” or “modernists” I speak of the heresy condemned by Pius X as the “synthesis of all heresies”.

On could also use “modern” to mean modern art or just that someone or something is more “contemporary” or in a myriad of other ways. It all depends on the usage.

 

[mnowlin1]

I am a Catholic and I am a Democrat. If you dare to challenge my integrity as a Catholic you’d be in big trouble.
Many of the Catholics who are also Republican would make great Fundamentalists, THEY are the ones who are trying to ruin our pluralistic
church, not me.
They actually focus more on Abortion than on helping the mothers who might abort, they hate the idea of Gay unions even though no one believes that the church should be forced to perform Gay marriages.
And the lack of charity towards people who disagree with them is astonishing!
Isn’t a sin against charity even worse than a sin against sexual intemperance?
Isn’t the greatest of these…CHARITY?
There are people on this site who lack charity and who are proud of it so they lack humility as well.
And why are all these married women and mothers on the computer so much anyway? Who is taking care of their homes?

Why would you respond in such an uncharitable way?

 

[Karianne]

I think the OP is one of those lost souls. I wish she would come back.

WHAT???
I can’t believe that you would come to a Catholic forum and write such a thing!
Where is your charity and who are YOU to call someone a lost soul?

 

[ComradeAndrei]

I am a Catholic and I am a Democrat. If you dare to challenge my integrity as a Catholic you’d be in big trouble.

Obviously you didn’t read my post, begining with “Out of charity…”

Many of the Catholics who are also Republican would make great Fundamentalists, THEY are the ones who are trying to ruin our pluralistic church, not me.

Our “pluralistic” Church? What is that supposed to mean?

They actually focus more on Abortion than on helping the mothers who might abort, they hate the idea of Gay unions even though no one believes that the church should be forced to perform Gay marriages.
And the lack of charity towards people who disagree with them is astonishing!
Isn’t a sin against charity even worse than a sin against sexual intemperance?
Isn’t the greatest of these…CHARITY?

Charity doesn’t translate into soft-headed tolerance.

There are people on this site who lack charity and who are proud of it so they lack humility as well.
And why are all these married women and mothers on the computer so much anyway? Who is taking care of their homes?

Now who is challenging integrity?