The Lost Years

[AndyF]

For discussion.

  Are the lost years of Jesus's life, from 12 years, through the phase of sexual development until his thirties relevant for his flock.? 

  Unless the command "Emulate Jesus"  are empty words, what lesson by example can a mature person learn from him in emulation for aspects that deal with sex?. We know he could teach us not to be presumptious as in the example of the tax collector's invitation, and charity by his kindness to the flock,etc. The common factor is that he's present.

  If there can be defined a segment of his life that we could say that is absolutely crucial has a learning model to us, wouldn't that be the sexual stage.? [The children of Fatima were told that most in hell are there for sins of the flesh.]

  It would have been for-known that adult humans would experience their most difficult part of their temptational test period during their sexual prime. As we already know what is learned during this stage sets the model for the mature adult. From this lesson or lack thereof as a primary cause we end up with the range of personalities of serial killer right up to upstanding virtuous adults and examples to our children.

  Just interested in some thoughts on this.       

  Andy  :)

 

[turtle18]

You have to remember, it wasn’t uncommon for “teenagers” who were age 14 or 15 to get married back then. Adulthood was achieved soon after one entered puberty. Marriage wasn’t delayed until the point you were ten or twenty years past puberty as it is today. This may have offset some of the sexual struggle which occurs in society today.

However, Jesus was chaste his entire life. As far as his teachings on this, I refer you to the Gospel yesterday, “it is better to tear your eye out than to sin lusting and risk being thrown into Gehenna. it is better to cut off your right hand than to risk being thrown into Gehenna.” And so forth.

But you have to remember, the Blessed Mother said the majority of people were in hell due to sexual sins** before** the sexual revoluation occurred. So it is scary to think the way society is now what is going to happen.

 

[po18guy]

Jesus founded an authoritative Church before He ascended. He promised the Holy Spirit to lead her into all truth. So, for teachings that never change, because God never changes, you must go to the Church that He founded. Bear in mind that the catechism cannot, nor is it intended to address every possible human situation. In addition to Church teaching, there are a plethora of authoritative books written on the subject of sexual morality.

The best thing for each of us is to strive toward the first thing we are to do if we intend to follow Christ: Deny ourselves.

 

[Cashue]

For discussion.

  Are the lost years of Jesus's life, from 12 years, through the phase of sexual development until his thirties relevant for his flock.? 

  Unless the command "Emulate Jesus"  are empty words, what lesson by example can a mature person learn from him in emulation for aspects that deal with sex?. We know he could teach us not to be presumptious as in the example of the tax collector's invitation, and charity by his kindness to the flock,etc. The common factor is that he's present.

  If there can be defined a segment of his life that we could say that is absolutely crucial has a learning model to us, wouldn't that be the sexual stage.? [The children of Fatima were told that most in hell are there for sins of the flesh.]

  It would have been for-known that adult humans would experience their most difficult part of their temptational test period during their sexual prime. As we already know what is learned during this stage sets the model for the mature adult. From this lesson or lack thereof as a primary cause we end up with the range of personalities of serial killer right up to upstanding virtuous adults and examples to our children.

  Just interested in some thoughts on this.       

  Andy  :)

What are you talking about. Firstly in order for Jesus early years to be be “lost” the implication is they were once part of divinly inspired scripture and were overlooked. This implied that the God that inspired the writings couldn’t keep track of them.

Also what is this about his teenage years being “absolutely crucial has a learning model to us” if they were “absolutely crucial” they would be in scripture (unless you want to blasphomesly suggest that God forgot to inspire the gospel writers to inspire something that was “absolutely crucial” to our salvation (one step down from a forgetful or weak God that allowed bits to be “lost”).

Jesus early ‘formative’ years were spent in heaven with his father, unless again you want to suggest Jesus had no prehuman existence and is not “The Word”, and the forming of his personality was done due to the countless milleniums he spent there.

We know Jesus early years with his human family resulted in him being a young man well versed in the law (a law he subjected himself to completely) and thus he would have been raised respecting the mosaic law’s code on sexual behaviour. Their positive influence would have admittedly have been a force for good while he needed intellectual and emotional nurturing but upon his baptism, when his prehuman existence was “opened to him” fully, that influence all but stopped as he recalled and meditated on his “formative years” in the heavens.

As imperfect humans the many principles Jesus dealth with in his ministry, as well as his specific comments dealing with marriage and sexuality guide all that listen to him regardless of where they find themselvs in their personal development.

To conclude, God was either forgetful, weak or shortsighted in that he failed to ensure a “crucial” aspect of Jesus human life was ‘lost’ or worse never inspired or the stages before his ministry were not so cruicial and Jesus as the master teacher and perfect model provided in recorded scripture all we need young, old adolecent, pararent or not, to follow his model “completely equipted” to please god.

 

[IrishAm]

There is a great difference between this time period being “the **lost **years” and it being “the **hidden **years.” There may be great value in prayerfully meditating upon the mystery of those years and seeing what (if anything) God reveals to you about them . . .

 

[the_phoenix]

I am reminded of a scene from the documentary film on the Carthusian Order called “Into Great Silence.”

Two monks, living their hidden lives of silence and solitude, were in their workshops doing carpentry work and sawing wood without speaking a word. This simple image was so powerfully moving when I realized, “Oh wow … WHAT THE MONKS ARE DOING IN THE ACTION OF SAWING WOOD IS A PRAYER!” It sure reminded me of Jesus and St. Joseph working as carpenters.

My apologies for being unable to adequately communicate the sense I got. Best thing if you want to learn from what I saw about the beauty of Jesus’ hidden life at Nazareth is to rent the movie “Into Great Silence” and see for yourself.

~~ the phoenix

 

[AndyF]

Cashue:

Good information here which I will go no further in, but you would peek my interest in your point if you didn’t come across as uncharitable and intolerant. Remember questions are not endictments, the facts will divulge that true or falsely all on their own.

Since you come out fighting, I would add that false accusations are also sinful, and I’m surprised you would risk it. If the path I take through this thread has been followed by the saints to their enlightenment, then it proves Faith is a struggle and you also accuse them. By your standard I can site blasphemous “acts” taken by saints before they saw the light. So put away the proverbial whip and allow the rest of us to grovel through our Faith to maturity. You claim to learned, so I will suggest you read some of Ott’s material in particular De Fide in particular Sentia Pia and Opinio Tolerata. His Excellency FJ Sheen has good advice also in this respect.

Debates before both parties concur are by nature not expected to be one sided, so it is a norm that there is an opponent, so relax and emulate Christ in that respect.

Andy

 

[AndyF]

I am reminded of a scene from the documentary film on the Carthusian Order called “Into Great Silence.”

Two monks, living their hidden lives of silence and solitude, were in their workshops doing carpentry work and sawing wood without speaking a word. This simple image was so powerfully moving when I realized, “Oh wow … WHAT THE MONKS ARE DOING IN THE ACTION OF SAWING WOOD IS A PRAYER!” It sure reminded me of Jesus and St. Joseph working as carpenters.

My apologies for being unable to adequately communicate the sense I got. Best thing if you want to learn from what I saw about the beauty of Jesus’ hidden life at Nazareth is to rent the movie “Into Great Silence” and see for yourself.

~~ the phoenix

Will do, and Thanks.

Andy

 

[Cashue]

Cashue:

Good information here which I will go no further in, but you would peek my interest in your point if you didn’t come across as uncharitable and intolerant. Remember questions are not endictments, the facts will divulge that true or falsely all on their own.

Since you come out fighting, I would add that false accusations are also sinful, and I’m surprised you would risk it. If the path I take through this thread has been followed by the saints to their enlightenment, then it proves Faith is a struggle and you also accuse them. By your standard I can site blasphemous “acts” taken by saints before they saw the light. So put away the proverbial whip and allow the rest of us to grovel through our Faith to maturity. You claim to learned, so I will suggest you read some of Ott’s material in particular De Fide in particular Sentia Pia and Opinio Tolerata. His Excellency FJ Sheen has good advice also in this respect.

Debates before both parties concur are by nature not expected to be one sided, so it is a norm that there is an opponent, so relax and emulate Christ in that respect.

Andy

My sincere apologies, I was wrong to speak in such a way please forgive me.

 

[StrawberryJam]

For discussion.

  Are the lost years of Jesus's life, from 12 years, through the phase of sexual development until his thirties relevant for his flock.? 

  Unless the command "Emulate Jesus"  are empty words, what lesson by example can a mature person learn from him in emulation for aspects that deal with sex?. We know he could teach us not to be presumptious as in the example of the tax collector's invitation, and charity by his kindness to the flock,etc. The common factor is that he's present.

  If there can be defined a segment of his life that we could say that is absolutely crucial has a learning model to us, wouldn't that be the sexual stage.? [The children of Fatima were told that most in hell are there for sins of the flesh.]

  It would have been for-known that adult humans would experience their most difficult part of their temptational test period during their sexual prime. As we already know what is learned during this stage sets the model for the mature adult. From this lesson or lack thereof as a primary cause we end up with the range of personalities of serial killer right up to upstanding virtuous adults and examples to our children.

  Just interested in some thoughts on this.       

  Andy  :)

I’m not sure how helpful it would be to know about that since humans are humans and not human and divine. But, in the bible fallen angels seemed to want to have sex with human women. So, angelic beings have the desire for sex.

It’s all greek to me anyway.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Cashue:

Good information here which I will go no further in, but you would peek my interest in your point if you didn’t come across as uncharitable and intolerant. Remember questions are not endictments, the facts will divulge that true or falsely all on their own.

Since you come out fighting, I would add that false accusations are also sinful, and I’m surprised you would risk it. If the path I take through this thread has been followed by the saints to their enlightenment, then it proves Faith is a struggle and you also accuse them. By your standard I can site blasphemous “acts” taken by saints before they saw the light. So put away the proverbial whip and allow the rest of us to grovel through our Faith to maturity. You claim to learned, so I will suggest you read some of Ott’s material in particular De Fide in particular Sentia Pia and Opinio Tolerata. His Excellency FJ Sheen has good advice also in this respect.

Debates before both parties concur are by nature not expected to be one sided, so it is a norm that there is an opponent, so relax and emulate Christ in that respect.

Andy

There’s an interesting book by Bruce Chilton, called “Rabbi Jesus” that explores his lost years. It’s a good read, makes you think. I’m not totally convinced of all his stuff though.

Here is a critiques of it: findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3818/is_200301/ai_n9231261/

 

[AndyF]

Cashue:

Not a problem.

… thus he would have been raised respecting the mosaic law’s code on sexual behavior. Their positive influence would have admittedly have been a force for good while he needed intellectual and emotional nurturing but upon his baptism, when his prehuman existence was “opened to him” fully, that influence all but stopped as he recalled and meditated on his “formative years” in the heavens.

Good point. For the man/God who is the ultimate example of virtue, I concur.

Thanks.

Andy

 

[estesbob]

For discussion.

Are the lost years of Jesus’s life, from 12 years, through the phase of sexual development until his thirties relevant for his flock.?

Unless the command “Emulate Jesus” are empty words, what lesson by example can a mature person learn from him in emulation for aspects that deal with sex?. We know he could teach us not to be presumptious as in the example of the tax collector’s invitation, and charity by his kindness to the flock,etc. The common factor is that he’s present.

If there can be defined a segment of his life that we could say that is absolutely crucial has a learning model to us, wouldn’t that be the sexual stage.? [The children of Fatima were told that most in hell are there for sins of the flesh.]

It would have been for-known that adult humans would experience their most difficult part of their temptational test period during their sexual prime. As we already know what is learned during this stage sets the model for the mature adult. From this lesson or lack thereof as a primary cause we end up with the range of personalities of serial killer right up to upstanding virtuous adults and examples to our children.

Just interested in some thoughts on this.

Andy

Jesus left us his Church to guide us in this.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Cashue:

We know Jesus early years with his human family resulted in him being a young man well versed in the law (a law he subjected himself to completely) and thus he would have been raised respecting the mosaic law’s code on sexual behaviour. Their positive influence would have admittedly have been a force for good while he needed intellectual and emotional nurturing but upon his baptism, when his prehuman existence was “opened to him” fully, that influence all but stopped as he recalled and meditated on his “formative years” in the heavens.

Where is this coming from? It is not Scriptural. What do you mean “opened to him’ fully?” It was partially opened to him prior to his baptism? The Catholic Church does not teach that Jesus had his “prehuman” existence “opened” to him at his Baptism.

I’m completely with IrishAm on this question.

 

[budgie2]

For discussion.

  Are the lost years of Jesus's life, from 12 years, through the phase of sexual development until his thirties relevant for his flock.? 

  Unless the command "Emulate Jesus"  are empty words, what lesson by example can a mature person learn from him in emulation for aspects that deal with sex?. We know he could teach us not to be presumptious as in the example of the tax collector's invitation, and charity by his kindness to the flock,etc. The common factor is that he's present.

  If there can be defined a segment of his life that we could say that is absolutely crucial has a learning model to us, wouldn't that be the sexual stage.? [The children of Fatima were told that most in hell are there for sins of the flesh.]

  It would have been for-known that adult humans would experience their most difficult part of their temptational test period during their sexual prime. As we already know what is learned during this stage sets the model for the mature adult. From this lesson or lack thereof as a primary cause we end up with the range of personalities of serial killer right up to upstanding virtuous adults and examples to our children.

  Just interested in some thoughts on this.       

  Andy  :)

I’m unpopular for saying this but I believe that Christ was baptised as he was still in Original Sin until his baptism. His baptism happens right at the beginning of the Gospel so Christ may have committed minor sins in this period, one theory. I also don’t know how a human being can be perfect at all times of his life as a human being needs to grow so perfection for a child of five is not the same as perfection for an adult of 30. Perhaps at the age of 30 Christ reached his maturity and become a role model that we could emultate more. This is also when he started his ministry. I also believe Christ is the Son of God.

 

[po18guy]

I’m unpopular for saying this but I believe that Christ was baptised as he was still in Original Sin until his baptism. His baptism happens right at the beginning of the Gospel so Christ may have committed minor sins in this period, one theory. I also don’t know how a human being can be perfect at all times of his life as a human being needs to grow so perfection for a child of five is not the same as perfection for an adult of 30. Perhaps at the age of 30 Christ reached his maturity and become a role model that we could emultate more. This is also when he started his ministry. I also believe Christ is the Son of God.

**No!!!**That would mean that He was human and not God. This is the heresy of Arianism, which was discredited in the early fourth century. Jesus submitted to John’s baptism in order to sanctify it for all who followed. Remember, John’s baptism had no cleansing power. It was only an outward sign of inner repentance.

Adam and Eve were created without sin, so what makes you think that Jesus ever had sin? We do not worship a sinful God, no matter what stage of His human life he was in. This reveals the danger of formulating your own theology. Trust the Church on this one. The Saints and martyrs did all of the heavy lifting for us.