The love of thy God and the question I struggle with

[Volim]

Volim,

You wrote that you don’t think God created us to praise him; and that He created us so he can show mankind his love for us.

What jumped out at me when I read your statements is that I agree that God created us because he wants us to experience His love…and once we begin to experience it and act on it, and become sanctified by that Love, then we will WANT to praise him.

Hi Dorothy,

The key word is **created **and why he did it.

Of course it’s great when people love God. Never said it wasn’t.

The thing about God is the more we hate him the more he loves us. Please don’t take this the wrong way and purposely hate God but his love is so strong he doesn’t let any of his sheep to be lost.

Do people have children so that child can love them or do they have children so they can love that child and give it life?

 

[Dorothy]

Hi Dorothy,

The key word is **created **and why he did it.

Of course it’s great when people love God. Never said it wasn’t.

The thing about God is the more we hate him the more he loves us. Please don’t take this the wrong way and purposely hate God but his love is so strong he doesn’t let any of his sheep to be lost.

Do people have children so that child can love them or do they have children so they can love that child and give it life?

If when the child grows up, he turns away from the love and wisdom shown him and remains stubbornly in it far away from his loving parents, in spite of the depth of love shown him,…then what can the parents do? They mourn and suffer over the love refused, and pray that he returns.

We have a lot of chances to repent in this life. God lets us have our choice.

 

[Volim]

If when the child grows up, he turns away from the love and wisdom shown him and remains stubbornly in it far away from his loving parents, in spite of the depth of love shown him,…then what can the parents do? They mourn and suffer over the love refused, and pray that he returns.

We have a lot of chances to repent in this life. God lets us have our choice.

I am not talking about what a human does after he is born but the reason why they are born.

What is a parent to do after is never give up like God. Obviously easier said than done.

Humbling oneself and saying sorry is what everyone needs to do.

 

[Jamma]

You did state this,“My take is that love is greater when it is given willingly, and God wanted to be loved in that way. He was not satisfied with the praise of angels who had no free will.”.

You state that he was not satisfied with the praise of Angels so you imply that he would be satisfied with the praise of man?

Praise is how angels show their love to God.

No offence, please dont scrutinise my posts too much.

To see what I really say on the purpose of man’s creation in a scrutinisable format, see the baltimore catechism.

 

[Jamma]

Some food for thought as Volim and Dorothy discuss their views.

God loves sinners

God commanded children to obey and honour their parents.

There are some differences between humans having childern and God creating humans.

 

[fhansen]

Why was there a need for God to have a tree of life amongst Adam and Eve?

God could have chosen not to have a tree there and man would be in paradise forever.

Sure Adam and Eve could have listened to God and not eaten but it’s like telling your children not to do something when eventually they will.

The question then is if your children did something against your will how far would you go to punish them? Would you never love them again?

Would you also let satan amongst your children to tempt and let them fall to never see them again?

Now if we are his children and God our Father it doesn’t sit right with me? Sure some will say that’s free will but that free will could supposedly cost me my life in hell or eternity without God. Why do I need to be tested, tempted and judged?

For example one could say it’s not fair for Muslim to be born into that religion or the Hindu? One could also say it would be better to have died as a child to have a better chance of eternal life than to live a thousand years, sin and never see God again or eternal punishment?

I mean where does God draw a line in the sand when it comes to judgment and eternal life or hell? Imagine being an inch short and missing out. How crushed would you be!

Does God discriminate when it comes to judgement? I say this cause I imagine Moses, David and Paul are in heaven for some fairly big sins against the commandments of God? If God has pardoned their sins then one would hope others receive that pardon.

My take on all this is God had to show us everything that is good and bad. Why, because he doesn’t want to come across as some communist dictator who only shows you one T.V. station and broadcast so you only get one side of the story. In my opinion that means all are saved. In saying this it doesn’t mean one can do what they want like Paul’s longing to be with Christ doesn’t mean he can kill himself to get there. Doing bad things is not what people really want to do anyways! Fear is what makes us do the things we don’t want to.

The most beautiful thing I ever heard about God other than Jesus is God didn’t make us so we can impress him with our love; he made us so he can impress us with his.

Thank God for Jesus Christ the Lamb of God who washes away the sin of the world.

What’s your take on this?

The tree just represents mans freedom to choose whether or not to obey, whether he’ll consciously recognize God as God and remain subjugated to Him…or not. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil came into existence as a direct and unavoidable consequence of man’s being given the gift of free will-the two are inseparably linked.

 

[LostintheFuture]

Yes, God purposely placed the tree in a spot where Adam and Eve could reach it via human action. This isn’t faulty garden planning, but a chance for Adam and Eve to prove their fidelity to their maker. Free-will is all there is to it.

Adam and Eve were created wise, but made themselves and their descendants fools. We are naturally fools, and therefore don’t deserve Heaven.

There is a saying: How can you soar like an eagle if you hang out with turkeys?

Adam and Eve made themselves turkeys by associating themselves with Satan, who is the king of turkeys. Turkeys can’t fly, and so Adam and Eve could no longer fly up to Heaven. All was lost, God’s friendship and peace forever lost until Christ came down.

How did Solomon, the Prophets, and the Apostles, namely Peter, became persons of honor within Scripture and tradition? (Solomon to a lesser extent. He lusted to his own shame.) Because they associated themselves with God, who is the eagle, the source of wisdom. :harp:

If you wish to ask the more sensitive questions about mortality, then feel free to ask God yourself in prayer, or one of the Apologists here.

After years of mulling that question around in my mind I have finally found the best answer! Thank You!

 

[Volim]

The tree just represents mans freedom to choose whether or not to obey, whether he’ll consciously recognize God as God and remain subjugated to Him…or not. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil came into existence as a direct and unavoidable consequence of man’s being given the gift of free will-the two are inseparably linked.

I find it interesting that that “Gift” of free will could by some Catholics/Religions cost millions/billions their lives? Is it really a gift then? Especially with Satan around?

Or is everybody saved?