The Luminous Mysteries

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SpiritusSanctus said:
Pray the Rosary any way I want to? That almost makes it sound like I’m creating my own form of worship. I worship God the way He wants to be worshiped. Saying the Rosary any way I want to isn’t worshiping God the right way. And who cares? That comes off as saying who cares what Our Lady wants. I’m not saying you said that but that is what it sounds like. I’m not going to change the Rosary in any way just because I’m saying it in private.
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The Rosary is not a liturgical prayer. It is a private devotion.
 
Cristiano said:
Wouldn’t be fun if JPII were going to be canonized and then we were to discover that, being the mystic that he was, he had a revelation from the Blessed Mother to add the Luminous Mysteries. I wonder how people would deal with that! 🙂
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Cristiano, wouldn’t it be fun if some Traditionalist were canonized and then we were to discover that, being the mystic that he was, he had had a revelation from the Blessed Mother to fight against all the ruptures with Tradition caused by the spirit of Vatican II?

(tongue in cheek 😉 )

(I repeat, I have no problem with Pope John Paul II propagating devotion to the Luminous Mysteries of Our Lord Jesus Christ.)
 
WFS5801 said:
I see no reason to question St. Dominic’s account of how he received the Rosary – or the fact that he often called it “her Angelic Psalter.”
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One isn’t bound to believe one way or another – private revelations are never and can never be binding on the conscience.

However, assuming the apparition of Mary to Saint Dominic is entirely valid, I never saw in the accounts where the Rosary was a brand new idea and not an already established fact (and a fact proven by historical evidence) and Our Lady was simply commissioning Saint Dominic to preach this established devotion. I also don’t see in the accounts any mention of the mysteries or what those mysteries might be. Again, there is historical evidence to suggest that the mysteries made wild shifts in focus before (in the Dominican version) settling on the 15 mysteries we are familiar with today.
 
maurin said:
Cristiano, wouldn’t it be fun if some Traditionalist were canonized and then we were to discover that, being the mystic that he was, he had had a revelation from the Blessed Mother to fight against all the ruptures with Tradition caused by the spirit of Vatican II?

(tongue in cheek 😉 )

(I repeat, I have no problem with Pope John Paul II propagating devotion to the Luminous Mysteries of Our Lord Jesus Christ.)
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I would not be sorry about that at all. The problem for me is with the definition of “The spirit of Vatican II”. I heard quite a few of them and some have zero overlap.

BTW a lot of Traditionalists have been canonized! 🙂
 
CallistusPM said:
When I speak of “the church fathers” I mean the church fathers DOWN THROUGH THE AGES.
Personally, it really does not matter to me what “mysteries” you meditate on when praying the rosary. As I said, prayers are prayers. Why not make up your own mysteries as you finger the beads? I am sure Almighty God will accept any attmpt at prayer.
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Indeed, God is pleased with any attempt at prayer we make. The 15 mysteries in the sets of Joyful, Sorrowful, Glorious, were recommended suggestions by the Church in the Dominican form – there are other forms of the Rosary (e.g., some focus on the 7 Sorrows). John Paul II has suggested an additional set of mysteries – again just a recommendation as the Rosary is a private devotion. The only Church law regulating it is from the Apostolic Penitentiary which requires a particular form (which include the Luminous Mysteries now) for receiving an indulgence. But, the Luminous mysteries aren’t required as the Rosary is not required of any Catholic.

My beef is with those who argue that Venerable John Paul II had no right to even make such a suggestion and all the rest that goes with that.
 
I can not help but wonder if the Luminous mysteries had been induced by another Pope, say St.Pope Pius X, St. Leo XIII or even Pope Pius XII, how they would be accepted here and now?🤷
 
JMJ_coder said:
I’m not sure which side is being taken there. The Dominican Rosary is part of the tradition (lower case ‘t’) of the Roman Church and not part of the Apostolic Sacred Tradition of the Church.
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I’m with you. My incredulity was in response to another poster’s assertion that the Rosary actually is Tradition and not tradition.

I’m no theologian, but my understanding is that capital-T Tradition is part of public revelation, which of course ended with the death of the last apostle.

Furthermore, it is - as you pointed out - a tradition of the Latin church. Eastern Catholics don’t generally pray our Rosary at all, at least not the Melkite Catholics in my area. So we sure would have a big problem if the Rosary were part of Sacred Tradition!

There’s nothing wrong with the Luminous Mysteries. People - and by people I mean some “traditionalists” - need to get over it. On this thread people have advocated sticking to “the historic traditions of the church fathers,” though even the pre-Luminous Mysteries Rosary doesn’t go back nearly that far. But what else should I expect from the kind of irrational paranoia that brought us statements like, “Our Lady didn’t say to add them!” or “Well, I’ll stick to the traditional way!”

Have we any reason to believe that our Lady would be anything but very happy about people’s meditating on the public ministry of our Lord? In addition, people have more than settled this matter on this thread by pointing out that the Rosary is not a liturgical prayer, is small-t tradition, and has in fact developed over time.
 
Like said:
I can not help but wonder if the Luminous mysteries had been induced by another Pope, say St.Pope Pius X, St. Leo XIII or even Pope Pius XII, how they would be accepted here and now?🤷
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Oh, I’m confident based on what I’ve seen on this forum that they would indeed be accepted and celebrated.
 
Fone Bone,

I agree with both you and Like when you say that the objection appears to be Our Holy Father John Paul II; and really has little or nothing to do with the actual Luminous Mysteries. Why do you believe that is the case?

I am still waiting for an answer from a poster who said that John Paul II has “messed” with tradition. That is a ridiculous charge and the poster has no answer.

:highprayer:
 
Taken from “The Twenty Mysteries of the Rosary?” by John Vennari
At Fatima, the Mother of God did not ask for a radically updated Rosary. Through the children, she told us to recite daily “a third of the Rosary,” and warned of dire consequences if Her requests were not fulfilled. Thanks to the latest update, however, every new book that recounts these words of Our Lady of Fatima will require a footnote to explain that when She said “a third of the Rosary,” She meant 5 decades, since a third of the new twenty-decade Rosary is 6.66 decades.
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😃
 
SpiritusSanctus said:
I choose to say the Rosary the Traditional way. I’m not going to make any changes to it.
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God bless you – I’m confident that God and the heavenly hosts are thrilled that you pray the Rosary in any way. Far be it from me to critique how you or anyone else is lead to live your life of prayer.

My objections are toward the criticizing of our late Holy Father the Venerable John Paul II and of those Catholics who took his recommendations.
 
JMJ_coder said:
My beef is with those who argue that Venerable John Paul II had no right to even make such a suggestion and all the rest that goes with that.
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Which is not something I (for one) even brought up. While some have brought up John Paul II, many of us who still pray the Rosary in the traditional way didn’t. The original poster simply asked…

“Do you pray the Luminous Mysteries? Why or why not?”

My answer was “no” and I gave three or four reasons why not, none of which were “because John Paul II suggested them.” Since the Rosary is a private devotion (though a very important one), why does it have to be one way or the other? (This question is not necessarily directed at you – just a general question.) In my opinion, the fact that the Rosary is called the “Angelic Psalter” by our Lady is enough for me to retain the traditional, 15 decade Rosary. The other reasons I’ve given only add to my conviction.
 
JMJ_coder said:
God bless you – I’m confident that God and the heavenly hosts are thrilled that you pray the Rosary in any way. Far be it from me to critique how you or anyone else is lead to live your life of prayer.

My objections are toward the criticizing of our late Holy Father the Venerable John Paul II and of those Catholics who took his recommendations.
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I just choose not to add any changes to it. That’s the way I want to pray my daily Rosary.

God Bless you as well.
 
WFS5801 said:
Since the Rosary is a private devotion (though a very important one), why does it have to be one way or the other? (This question is not necessarily directed at you – just a general question.)
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There is a form to be used regulated by the Church, which is for the gaining of an indulgence. Thus, in order to gain the indulgence one must perform the work – in this case praying the Rosary – in the manner legislated by the Church (usually through the office of the Apostolic Penitentiary).

For the indulgence, it is necessary to use one of the four approved sets of mysteries (Joyful, Luminous, Sorrowful, Glorious). Though, one could always say just one set of mysteries and that would be fine and in accordance to the legislation, say having a habit of perpetually saying the Glorious mysteries.
 
JMJ_coder said:
There is a form to be used regulated by the Church, which is for the gaining of an indulgence. Thus, in order to gain the indulgence one must perform the work – in this case praying the Rosary – in the manner legislated by the Church (usually through the office of the Apostolic Penitentiary).

For the indulgence, it is necessary to use one of the four approved sets of mysteries (Joyful, Luminous, Sorrowful, Glorious). Though, one could always say just one set of mysteries and that would be fine and in accordance to the legislation, say having a habit of perpetually saying the Glorious mysteries.
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From what I’ve read, the condition for the indulgence is that the daily five decades of the rosary (whichever five you are praying) must be prayed continuously. Nowhere do I find that you must pray the Luminous Mysteries. As a matter of fact, it appears that the Luminous Mysteries are suggested but specifically not required.

I should also add that the Luminous Mysteries were not “legislated” (required) they were “proposed” (suggested).
 
JMJ_coder said:
Nope, not at all. There are many Popes who led less than reputable lives. But, we are speaking particularly of Venerable John Paul II, and the charges trumped up by so-called ‘traditionalist Catholics’ are just not credible or compelling.
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OK, I get it now. Other Popes past, present and future could, did and probably will continue to make human errors in judgment, make mistakes or live less than perfect lives.:eek:

Except for Pope John Paul II of course, who was obviously perfect in every respect. No mistakes, no errors and absolute perfection throughout his entire life:thumbsup:

Why bother to go through the canonization process at all? Just elevate him immediately:extrahappy:.

Sometimes I think some of you ardent John Paul II supporters actually worship him instead of God…
 
WFS5801 said:
From what I’ve read, the condition for the indulgence is that the daily five decades of the rosary (whichever five you are praying) must be prayed continuously. Nowhere do I find that you must pray the Luminous Mysteries. As a matter of fact, it appears that the Luminous Mysteries are suggested but specifically not required.

I should also add that the Luminous Mysteries were not “legislated” (required) they were “proposed” (suggested).
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“must be prayed continuously”…Does this mean I can’t do it a decade at a time throughout the day, or that I must finish the Mystery that I am doing that day??
Thanks,
mouse
 
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