The Maciel case and the Pope

[StJeanneDArc]

ByzCath:

I agree with you but thats part of the problem.

Those who are attacking Fr Maciel also attack the Legion and hold that view that there is something wrong with the Legion and that they do nothing but brainwash their members.

I’m going to first disclose that I am a member of Regnum Christi.

Those specific accusers did not bring a case against the Legion, but against the founder. People who support the accusers tend to also post on their ex-RC website a lot of anonymous, negative things with accusations of brainwashing. The general script runs like this “Fr. Maciel is evil and has done vile things. The only reason there are not more accusers is because the rest are all brainwashed. Regnum Christi members are part of a cult and have been brainwashed as well, so they won’t say anything bad about the founder or the Legion. The Pope [in this case Pope John Paul II] would not be so approving of Fr. Maciel and the Legion if he knew what really went on. Other higher ups in the Vatican won’t investigate Fr. Maciel because they’re in on it too.”

That’s the problem with conspiracy theorists. They’re determined to believe something bad and if you try to reason them out of their theory, then you’re accused of being part of the conspiracy. Sometimes there is no conspiracy and sometimes people are exonerated because they’ve done no wrong.

 

[Toni]

mlchance:

The matter has been thoroughly investigated. The charges are baseless. Berry and company are professional scandal-mongers out to make a buck.

– Mark L. Chance.

Being active with the Legionaries of Christ for 16 plus years:
I will state Fr. Maciel’s case one last time. Years ago in the 60’s 5 seminarians were told they did not have a vocation with the Legionaries.

These 5 men in the 60’s accused Fr. Maciel of drugging them. (which given the 60’s was the abuse in the world)
These same men in the 80’s accused Fr. Maciel of sexual abuse (which in the 80’s was when this became the news in People magazine etc.) 1 of these men denied the story saying that is what not true.
Fr. Maciel is a very holy man.
If the tree is bad would it produce fruit?
Just take a look at the Legionaries of Christ. Even Pope John Paul II was quoted as saying that they were the Jesuit’s of old.
Fr. Maciel has had more than enough persecution from the world.
I truly believe that if he is what he has been accused of, his order would never have grown.
Even in the Bible Christ cursed the fig tree.
Look at all the orders in the world can you name 3 that are as large as the Legionaries and faithful to Rome? Try it!

**BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM!:tiphat: **

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I want you to understand me.

I like the Legion.

I am sad that I did not fully enter the Church until I was 33 and found my vocation around that time also.

I met with a couple of Legionnaries. They were great men. But alas, at 33 I was too old.

So I am on to the Carmelites now, but I will always think well of the Legion of Christ.

 

[tuopaolo]

ByzCath:

I want you to understand me.

I like the Legion.

I am sad that I did not fully enter the Church until I was 33 and found my vocation around that time also.

I met with a couple of Legionnaries. They were great men. But alas, at 33 I was too old.

So I am on to the Carmelites now, but I will always think well of the Legion of Christ.

I thought their maximum age was 35 … maybe I’m remembering wrong.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

tuopaolo:

I thought their maximum age was 35 … maybe I’m remembering wrong.

On paper it might be but…

They perfer to get men right out of college as their formation covers all the college years and then seminary after.

I was not ready to enter at 35 anyways.

I am now 38 and am just about at a place where I can start the formation program this August. I only have my student loan, which the Carmelites will cover, and my auto loan which I must get rid of before I enter.

I need two years of college at the very least. The pre-noviate (or postulancy) is usually a year long but it covers what college you need so I will be in it for two years. Then have the noviate, the internship, then the semianry. Right now I am looking at 8 to 9 years of formation before ordianation.

 

[StJeanneDArc]

ByzCath:

On paper it might be but…

They perfer to get men right out of college as their formation covers all the college years and then seminary after.

I was not ready to enter at 35 anyways.

I am now 38 and am just about at a place where I can start the formation program this August. I only have my student loan, which the Carmelites will cover, and my auto loan which I must get rid of before I enter.

I need two years of college at the very least. The pre-noviate (or postulancy) is usually a year long but it covers what college you need so I will be in it for two years. Then have the noviate, the internship, then the semianry. Right now I am looking at 8 to 9 years of formation before ordianation.

Blessings to you! My prayers are with you as you discern God’s will!

 

[SnorterLuster]

*I ran across this a little while ago. It appears the site is a anti Legion site so you should keep that in mind as you read this.
SnorterLuster
*
Maciel Investigation Still Underway, Legion of Christ Misinforms the Media

EMERGENCY PRESS STATEMENT

By Regain editorial staff

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Monday May 23, 2005

This morning, at exactly 9am, the time when the Vatican Press Office opens, I phoned to speak directly with Fr. Ciro Benedettini, Assistant Vatican Spokesperson. I had questions regarding the communiqué attributed to him regarding Fr. Maciel. Our conversation is as follows:

“That communiqué does NOT belong to the Holy See; it is a communiqué from the Legionaries of Christ. They called me, the same as you are calling me, and they asked me if there is any communiqué about the investigation, or about a possible investigation, into Fr. Maciel. I told them that the Press Office had not received any communiqué about whether there is, was or will be any such investigation; that this issue does not concern the Press Office but directly concerns Monsignor Scicluna [the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith’s Promoter of Justice].”

I repeatedly asked him whether or not the communiqué was from the Vatican Press Office, and he emphasized on more than three occasions that it was NOT; that the communiqué comes from the Legionaries and that the only thing that he had done was to point out that the Press Office has no news about said investigation.

I insisted that the Legionaries say he was the one who gave this information he replied: “Absolutely not. They called me, and I repeat to you that what I told them, that [simply] there is no knowledge of it [the investigation] in the Press Office.”

I continued to ask him about the investigation underway directed by Monsignor Scicluna, and he answered: “You have to ask him about that directly; it is not our province.”

I commented that I was worried he had given out the communiqué, because - as is well known - whoever reveals information about an investigation underway incurs excommunication “Latae Sententiae” [ipso facto], and he told me that of course he had done no such thing.

I told him that in the news articles that have appeared the Legionaries quote him as their official source and he answered: “Absolutely not, because they called me and I told them exactly the same as I have told you: that here there is nothing on record about an investigation; that corresponds to the CDF.” [Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith]

As to whether the Holy See was going to provide an official denial, he told me that, at least for today, it was NOT going to make any denial; simply because there never was any official communiqué from the Holy See to begin with.

The above information is vouched for by Regain editorial staff

For further info contact irishmexican43@yahoo.com

regainnetwork.org/article.php?a=47245906

 

[tuopaolo]

Thanks for sharing this. I don’t see any reason to doubt it.

It looks like what happened was:

1. The Press Office of the Holy See was contacted by the Legion and the Press Office told them that to its knowledge there is no canonical process underway or one expected to be underway.
2. The Legion presented this development as the Holy See informing the Legion that there was no canonical process underway or expected to be underway.
3. Catholic News Service received the same information and went with the story.
4. Regain contacted the Press Office for clarification and received it as below.

Perhaps there was also some miscommunication maybe due to language problems.

Assuming the the charges are judged canonically to be true, what would happen to the Legion and Regnum Christi? Would the sins of its founder mean that the Legion would have to be disbanded? Or is it possible theologically for God to use a sinner to found an order? Not all founders of religious orders are canonized … but must they still be holy men and women? Perhaps God would raise up another founder to provide the charism for a re-founded Legion. Or I guess they could all be transfered (there’s provision for it in canon law) to other religious orders.

I ran across this a little while ago. It appears the site is a anti Legion site so you should keep that in mind as you read this.
SnorterLuster

Maciel Investigation Still Underway, Legion of Christ Misinforms the Media

EMERGENCY PRESS STATEMENT

By Regain editorial staff

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Monday May 23, 2005

This morning, at exactly 9am, the time when the Vatican Press Office opens, I phoned to speak directly with Fr. Ciro Benedettini, Assistant Vatican Spokesperson. I had questions regarding the communiqué attributed to him regarding Fr. Maciel. Our conversation is as follows:

“That communiqué does NOT belong to the Holy See; it is a communiqué from the Legionaries of Christ. They called me, the same as you are calling me, and they asked me if there is any communiqué about the investigation, or about a possible investigation, into Fr. Maciel. I told them that the Press Office had not received any communiqué about whether there is, was or will be any such investigation; that this issue does not concern the Press Office but directly concerns Monsignor Scicluna [the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith’s Promoter of Justice].”

I repeatedly asked him whether or not the communiqué was from the Vatican Press Office, and he emphasized on more than three occasions that it was NOT; that the communiqué comes from the Legionaries and that the only thing that he had done was to point out that the Press Office has no news about said investigation.

I insisted that the Legionaries say he was the one who gave this information he replied: “Absolutely not. They called me, and I repeat to you that what I told them, that [simply] there is no knowledge of it [the investigation] in the Press Office.”

I continued to ask him about the investigation underway directed by Monsignor Scicluna, and he answered: “You have to ask him about that directly; it is not our province.”

I commented that I was worried he had given out the communiqué, because - as is well known - whoever reveals information about an investigation underway incurs excommunication “Latae Sententiae” [ipso facto], and he told me that of course he had done no such thing.

I told him that in the news articles that have appeared the Legionaries quote him as their official source and he answered: “Absolutely not, because they called me and I told them exactly the same as I have told you: that here there is nothing on record about an investigation; that corresponds to the CDF.” [Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith]

As to whether the Holy See was going to provide an official denial, he told me that, at least for today, it was NOT going to make any denial; simply because there never was any official communiqué from the Holy See to begin with.

The above information is vouched for by Regain editorial staff

For further info contact irishmexican43@yahoo.com

regainnetwork.org/article.php?a=47245906

 

[Catholic29]

tuopaolo:

Perhaps God would raise up another founder to provide the charism for a re-founded Legion. Or I guess they could all be transfered (there’s provision for it in canon law) to other religious orders.

If Fr. Maciel is by some very remote chance found guilty, and the Legion disbanded (which I doubt even more), I wonder what would happen if the ex-Legionaries were transfered to the Jesuits? Would we end up with the Jesuits of old over night, or would the liberal guard of the modern day Society of Jesus spit them out or reject them from the outset? Though the more likely scenario is that the ex-Legionaries would found a new orthodox order from the ashes of the old.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Catholic29:

If Fr. Maciel is by some very remote chance found guilty, and the Legion disbanded (which I doubt even more), I wonder what would happen if the ex-Legionaries were transfered to the Jesuits? Would we end up with the Jesuits of old over night, or would the liberal guard of the modern day Society of Jesus spit them out or reject them from the outset? Though the more likely scenario is that the ex-Legionaries would found a new orthodox order from the ashes of the old.

Interesting idea but I doubt the Jesuits would accept them.

 

[Catholic29]

ByzCath:

Interesting idea but I doubt the Jesuits would accept them.

I kinda doubt they would either.

But I wonder if the Legionaries/Regnum Christi would incorporate into Opus Dei? After all they share a very similar apostolate and level of orthodoxy, not to mention a comparable amount of controversy.