The Mark of the Beast

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**That’s a prophecy for the future and not for the past. And if you are thinking about Jesus, what kind of kingdom he became a king of? What you subscribe to, you need faith that moves mountain. The only thing Jesus got closest to a king was that plate on the top of his cross. Therefore, you must be joking!

Ben: :rolleyes:**
You mean the sign which said "JESUS OF NAZARETH KING OF THE JEWS? You better believe it.
 
**I know what you are trying to do. But it won’t help you. I am not making up anything. Just stretching out a little based on existent evidences. I don’t believe you will succeed to mess up my research by fabricating all those things above.

Ben: :rolleyes:**
You admit to ‘stretching’ things. Since I fabricated nothing (thanks for calling me a liar) you can only be stretching the truth.
 
Replacement Theology has become known as a form of Antisemitism.
When you are shown to be wrong, call the other guy (or gal) a hater. Great theory there Ben.

Replacement theology does not exist. Never has, never will. It is a false theological construct created by people who needed something to use to argue their case when all history, reason, and biblical evidence left them in an untenable position.
 
When you are shown to be wrong, call the other guy (or gal) a hater. Great theory there Ben.

Replacement theology does not exist. Never has, never will. It is a false theological construct created by people who needed something to use to argue their case when all history, reason, and biblical evidence left them in an untenable position.
Perhaps you don’t know what is Replacement Theology. I would recommend you to read the Pauline Letter to the Galatians 4:21-31.

Ben: 😊
 
You mean the sign which said "JESUS OF NAZARETH KING OF THE JEWS? You better believe it.
**That was a Roman joke prepared by Pilate himself. I can’t believe you went for that one. It’s unbelievable how the simple can believe anything, even a Roman joke.

Ben: :D**
 
Ya, that’s because everything anybody does is considered anti-semitism in your eyes…and just another reminder Ben, there will never be a “replacement theology” but a New Covenant with an extension of the Old. It is the New Testament now Ben, the New Testament of Jesus Christ.
**The only New Covenant I know of is the one mentioned by Jeremiah, which is supposed to be done with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one. (Jer. 31:31) It has nothing to do with Gentiles. The NT is a covenant made by Paul with Christians. I am sorry to rain on your parade.

Ben: 😊**
 
**That’s a prophecy for the future and not for the past. And if you are thinking about Jesus, what kind of kingdom he became a king of? What you subscribe to, you need faith that moves mountain. The only thing Jesus got closest to a king was that plate on the top of his cross. Therefore, you must be joking!

Ben: :rolleyes:**
I’m not joking and you know my answer. Are you joking?

Daniel laid out a precise time line for God’s plan of salvation. 4 kingdoms means 4 kingdoms and 70 weeks means 70 weeks. Are you suggesting the majority of Daniel’s visions have been fulfilled but then he loses track of time and forgets to mention a few thousand years?
Do you remember Daniel 7:8? It’s about that little horn, which sprang out of the ten horns on the head of the Beast. The beast was the Roman Empire from which head, 10 horns sprang when it broke down. Those 10 horns were the ten European nations. Then a little horn sprang out from them and torned three of the others. This little horn was Chritianity, which sprang with power over all the other ten nations of Europe, as we all know from History.
You are confusing Nero with Antiochus at the time of the Hasmonians. Those three and a half years that the sacrifices had ceased is a reference to Danie 9:27. And the abomination of desolation erected in the Temple was done by the Greeks and not Romans.
Make up your mind because you can’t have it both ways. If you are suggesting that Daniel speaks of the ancient past and OUR future, you make him out to be a fool instead of a prophet. Do you really expect anyone to believe God put one over on Daniel (making his timeline off by more than 400%)?
 
Perhaps you don’t know what is Replacement Theology. I would recommend you to read the Pauline Letter to the Galatians 4:21-31.

Ben: 😊
Perhaps you should blush.

Paul’s letter to the Galatians has nothing to do with any “replacement theology”
Paul tells the Galatian Christians that they do not have to be circumcized in order to be Christians. It tells Christians (accurately) that we are in fact the children of Isaac and not wild men and savages like the sons of Ishmael. It tells them and it tells us that it is not required to to be a Jew in order to be a Christian. This is directly based on the words of Jesus who NEVER said “Go and make converts of just the Jews” but rather said in Matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
 
**That was a Roman joke prepared by Pilate himself. I can’t believe you went for that one. It’s unbelievable how the simple can believe anything, even a Roman joke.

Ben: :D**
No Ben, it wasn’t a “Roman joke” but a true testimony of Pilate himself because he truly believed that Christ was the Messiah. It was your own people who didn’t.
 
No Ben, it wasn’t a “Roman joke” but a true testimony of Pilate himself because he truly believed that Christ was the Messiah. It was your own people who didn’t.
**Pilate believed that Jesus was the Messiah! He, he, he, he, he, he.
You must read Josephus about Pilate. Even the Antichrist himself, Pilate would beat him.

If the Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, it’s because Jesus was not the Messiah. Perhaps the Pauline Messiah; not the Jewish one. The Messiah is not a dead man. The Messiah does not die. If the Messiah were to die out, even the natural laws would stop functioning properly, which would mean universal catastrophe. Read Jeremiah 31:35-37 and see what I mean.

Ben: :)**
 
Perhaps you should blush.

Paul’s letter to the Galatians has nothing to do with any “replacement theology”
Paul tells the Galatian Christians that they do not have to be circumcized in order to be Christians. It tells Christians (accurately) that we are in fact the children of Isaac and not wild men and savages like the sons of Ishmael. It tells them and it tells us that it is not required to to be a Jew in order to be a Christian. This is directly based on the words of Jesus who NEVER said “Go and make converts of just the Jews” but rather said in Matthew 28:16-20
**Wasn’t I right when I suspected that you do not understand what is Replacement Theology? Let us take a look at Galatians 4:21-31.

First of all, the background to Galatians 4:21-31 is a contention between Paul and the Galatians who insisted on returning to the Nazarenes, because the church of the Galatians had been a Nazarene synagogue which Paul had overturned into a Christian church. So, those Galatians were not satisfied with Paul’s gospel and wanted to become Jews as they had been made so by the Nazarenes. That’s when Paul started with his Replacement Theology by comparing the Jews to the son of the slave of Sara, who was called Hagar and his Christians to the freeborn Sara. That Christians were the fruit of the promise and not the Jews. That the two women, Hagar and Sara stood for the two covenants: The Sinaitic Covenant, meaning the Jews and the New Covenant, meaning his gospel, which would point to the Jerusalem on high as freeborn.

Tell me what People did come from the Divine promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? The Jewish People, and the whole Scriptures that Jesus used to handle says so. But Paul said they the Galatians, as Christians, were the children of the Promise and not the Jews.

Now, comes the punch line in verse 30: “Cast out the slave girl and her son together.” Who was the slave girl in the Replacement Theology of Paul? The Sinaitic Covenant. And her son? The Jews. Why? Because as he says, the Jews will never be an heir on equal terms with the son of the one born free. Who is the son of the one born free? And Paul answers his own question: “Therefore, my brothers, we are not children of a slave girl but of a mother who is free.” (Gal. 4:31)

Now, do you understand what is Replacement Theology? That’s what is impersonated here in Galatians 4:21-31. And it has been classified as a modality of Antisemitism.

Ben: :o**
 
The so called mark of the beast is a little deeper then that…it means …how to recognize an enemy of God ie All Truth! Since it is quite obvious its the wealthy class that is the most distant from Truth and worship error ie: materialism…and this same wealthy class own the markets of opinion,ie: newspapers,the boob tube,hollyweird etc the answer as to whom has the ‘mark of the beast’ is …the stars,the glamorous ones,contemporary ‘role models’ etc etc…so take a look at the current opinion makers,the leading commentators,on and on we see the same ones…these are the ones who have the mark of the beast ! The nameless,day by day average God loving ,God fearing person is not of this club…his/hers marks are of the dirt and grime of daily honest labor…the mark of the beast is the perfume,the jewels,the tinsel of those who dont work but just perform,just brainwash,just condition the ‘simple minded’ masses to simply obey…pay your taxes for we know what is best for you…abortion is not the murder of an innocent human being but a glorious manifestation of choice…our word our meaning! Of course you cant have choice,as in education,you must attend our government schools whether you like it or not,we,the chosen ones,the ones with the mark of the beast…our lord,satan…know what is best for you…and so the popular ones shoved into our faces daily as our leaders in most fields have the mark of the beast…a fat bank account,stardom,…this does not take some kind of flash card psychoanalysis…by their fruits ye shall know them…
 
I’m not joking and you know my answer. Are you joking?

Daniel laid out a precise time line for God’s plan of salvation. 4 kingdoms means 4 kingdoms and 70 weeks means 70 weeks. Are you suggesting the majority of Daniel’s visions have been fulfilled but then he loses track of time and forgets to mention a few thousand years?

Make up your mind because you can’t have it both ways. If you are suggesting that Daniel speaks of the ancient past and OUR future, you make him out to be a fool instead of a prophet. Do you really expect anyone to believe God put one over on Daniel (making his timeline off by more than 400%)?
**The fool here is not Daniel but those of another religion who dare to plagiarize a Jewish prophecy to interpret it according to their own tools. Of course, such an interpretation is prone to fail at the onset. The 70 week/years of Daniel 9:24-27 were fulfilled according to his own Faith which was Judaism. You are only assuming when you think that that prophecy has anything to do with Jesus. A Jewish prophecy must be interpreted Jewishly and not according to another religion. This is bad plagiarism.

Ben: 😊**
 
The so called mark of the beast is a little deeper then that…it means …how to recognize an enemy of God ie All Truth! Since it is quite obvious its the wealthy class that is the most distant from Truth and worship error ie: materialism…and this same wealthy class own the markets of opinion,ie: newspapers,the boob tube,hollyweird etc the answer as to whom has the ‘mark of the beast’ is …the stars,the glamorous ones,contemporary ‘role models’ etc etc…so take a look at the current opinion makers,the leading commentators,on and on we see the same ones…these are the ones who have the mark of the beast ! The nameless,day by day average God loving ,God fearing person is not of this club…his/hers marks are of the dirt and grime of daily honest labor…the mark of the beast is the perfume,the jewels,the tinsel of those who dont work but just perform,just brainwash,just condition the ‘simple minded’ masses to simply obey…pay your taxes for we know what is best for you…abortion is not the murder of an innocent human being but a glorious manifestation of choice…our word our meaning! Of course you cant have choice,as in education,you must attend our government schools whether you like it or not,we,the chosen ones,the ones with the mark of the beast…our lord,satan…know what is best for you…and so the popular ones shoved into our faces daily as our leaders in most fields have the mark of the beast…a fat bank account,stardom,…this does not take some kind of flash card psychoanalysis…by their fruits ye shall know them…
**You have got a valid point but I am not sure I can agree with you. Here is a simile: There are two young men in the same financial condition. One works very hard to get an education, and then continues woking very hard to make as much money as he can, and becomes very rich. In the meantime, the other youngman spends his life having a good time with his friends, no education and no work. In his middle age he marries and produces 5, 6, or 7 children and perpetuates poverty. Now, my question is: Why would the first young man get the mark of the beast and not the second? That goes your theory, because I am sure you agree with me that wealth is no qualification to get the mark of the beast. I would rather confer the mark of the beast to the lazy young man and not to the one who prospered.

Ben: 🤷**
 
Well, my friend, have you read Isaiah 2:2,3? It says in there that when Gentiles need instruction in the Word of God, the address is Zion, the Jewish People, and not the other way around. What else can I say? I am just reading what the Prophet wrote down.

Ben: 🤷
 
The fool here is not Daniel but those of another religion who dare to plagiarize a Jewish prophecy to interpret it according to their own tools. Of course, such an interpretation is prone to fail at the onset. The 70 week/years of Daniel 9:24-27 were fulfilled according to his own Faith which was Judaism. You are only assuming when you think that that prophecy has anything to do with Jesus. A Jewish prophecy must be interpreted Jewishly and not according to another religion. This is bad plagiarism.
Ok, so Ben enlighten us to the interpretation of this scripture according to it’s “Jewishness”. I’m curious as to how Judaism views these prophecies in light of what Christians believe concerning these and how they relate to Jesus as depicted below.

Daniel 9:24 “** Seventy weeks (707=490 years)* are determined upon thy people (Israel) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.**”

Emphasis and parenthesis mine. The number of years are based upon the scriptures relating to Scriptural prophecies wherein we are told that God gives his prophets a day for a year, meaning that in prophecy whenever it speaks of a day we are to equate it to a year, therefore 70 weeks of days is the same as 490 years. This ONLY applies to prophecies so don’t go into a tirade about other days in the scriptures that have nothing to do with prophecies.

So does Gabriel give Daniel a starting point to begin the countdown?

Daniel 9:25 “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince (this is obviously the savior of the Jews, right?) shall be seven weeks (49 years) and threescore and two weeks (420 + 14 = 434 years): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

So Daniel is told by Gabriel that the starting of the countdown begins when an order goes out from some authority figure to rebuild Jerusalem. Notice that it is not an order or permission to go build the temple in Jerusalem but Jerusalem itself. Is such a “decree” ever issued? The total number years to countdown here is 69 weeks or 483 years.

Ezra 7:12-13 “Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time. I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem go with thee.”

The command is issued and it is further stipulated that the governors around Jerusalem are to supply Ezra and all those with him the supplies to complete the construction of the city. When did this happen. Historical records and it is the consensus of historians that this occurred in 457 AD. So we now subtract 457 from 483 (add one for the no existent year 0) and our ending year is 27AD. To confirm any significant event that is of interest and could relate to this prophecy. When we look what we find is the baptism and the anointing of the Holy Ghost upon Jesus. This leaves us with one more week.

Daniel 9:27 “** And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he will make it desolate, even unto the consummation. And that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.**”

Jesus’ ministry lasted for 3 ½ years which at the conclusion of he was crucified. Upon that day the sky went dark and in the temple during the last sacrifice of the day, for it was the last day of Passover, the curtain between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holy was rent in twain. The sacrifice ceased and the priests were terrified, yelling Iccabod (sic).

But the prophecy stated that “he shall confirm the convent with many for one week”, this is where his disciples, now apostles, come in. For they continued to teach as he taught, to the Jews only for the next three and one half years until Stephen faced down the Jewish council and ended up being stoned outside the city as Saul watched. Soon after Saul, became Paul due to an encounter with Jesus himself. Paul, being commissioned by Jesus took the Gospel to the Gentiles because the Jews had rejected it. The fulfillment of Daniel’s Seventy Weeks prophecy as given by Gabriel was complete at that time.

Now, if you have a better explanation I’d love to hear it.

In Christ.
 
The fool here is not Daniel but those of another religion who dare to plagiarize a Jewish prophecy to interpret it according to their own tools. Of course, such an interpretation is prone to fail at the onset. The 70 week/years of Daniel 9:24-27 were fulfilled according to his own Faith which was Judaism. You are only assuming when you think that that prophecy has anything to do with Jesus. A Jewish prophecy must be interpreted Jewishly and not according to another religion. This is bad plagiarism.

Ben: 😊
OK, Ben. Will you settle the issue by giving us the Jewish interpretation.

Earlier you said:
That’s a prophecy for the future and not for the past.

Ben: :rolleyes:
Was it fulfilled or is it still future? OR is it both?

Please stop dodging the question and tell us who the anointed most holy was, that ended sin and brought everlasting justice.

Ryan 🙂
 
**Wasn’t I right when I suspected that you do not understand what is Replacement Theology? Let us take a look at Galatians 4:21-31.

First of all, the background to Galatians 4:21-31 is a contention between Paul and the Galatians who insisted on returning to the Nazarenes, because the church of the Galatians had been a Nazarene synagogue which Paul had overturned into a Christian church. So, those Galatians were not satisfied with Paul’s gospel and wanted to become Jews as they had been made so by the Nazarenes. That’s when Paul started with his Replacement Theology by comparing the Jews to the son of the slave of Sara, who was called Hagar and his Christians to the freeborn Sara. That Christians were the fruit of the promise and not the Jews. That the two women, Hagar and Sara stood for the two covenants: The Sinaitic Covenant, meaning the Jews and the New Covenant, meaning his gospel, which would point to the Jerusalem on high as freeborn.

Tell me what People did come from the Divine promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? The Jewish People, and the whole Scriptures that Jesus used to handle says so. But Paul said they the Galatians, as Christians, were the children of the Promise and not the Jews.

Now, comes the punch line in verse 30: “Cast out the slave girl and her son together.” Who was the slave girl in the Replacement Theology of Paul? The Sinaitic Covenant. And her son? The Jews. Why? Because as he says, the Jews will never be an heir on equal terms with the son of the one born free. Who is the son of the one born free? And Paul answers his own question: “Therefore, my brothers, we are not children of a slave girl but of a mother who is free.” (Gal. 4:31)

Now, do you understand what is Replacement Theology? That’s what is impersonated here in Galatians 4:21-31. And it has been classified as a modality of Antisemitism.

Ben: :o**
I can see your point, if you willfully misinterpret the meaning of Paul’s letter then you could bend and twist the words to mean what you will. However, seeing as Paul was merely stating that one did not have to be a Jew in order to be a Christian your point fails.
 
**That was a Roman joke prepared by Pilate himself. I can’t believe you went for that one. It’s unbelievable how the simple can believe anything, even a Roman joke.

Ben: :D**
And the most complex can believe nothing…:rolleyes:
 
**Pilate believed that Jesus was the Messiah! He, he, he, he, he, he.
You must read Josephus about Pilate. Even the Antichrist himself, Pilate would beat him.

If the Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, it’s because Jesus was not the Messiah. Perhaps the Pauline Messiah; not the Jewish one. The Messiah is not a dead man. The Messiah does not die. If the Messiah were to die out, even the natural laws would stop functioning properly, which would mean universal catastrophe. Read Jeremiah 31:35-37 and see what I mean.

Ben: :)**
I don’t need to read Josephus about Pilate when the Scriptures tells me what happened. The Jews are in DENIAL about Jesus Christ. They were 2,000 years ago, and continue to be today. You are in for a rather rude awakening. You interpret everything just the way you want to. The Messiah, Jesus is so foretold in the OT it’s like having a red ball in front of you and you are saying it isn’t red, even though it is perfectly red. Read Isaiah 53.
 
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