The Mark of the Beast

[Ben_Masada]

Very good! Let us start with the misnomer, Old Testament. There is no such a thing as Old Testament. This is an item from the antisemitic agenda of Paul in Galatians 4:21-31, which means Replacement Theology. The name is Tanach or Hebrew Scriptures.

Yes of course, I remember being told that in one my lectures.

**Good for you! Although it tells me you don’t have a missionary spirit. Why are you on religious studies? **

I’m actually in teacher training at a Catholic University in Belfast. At the University I attend we follow two religious studies programmes. One is called Religious Education which is the one that is orientated towards missionary activity and handing on faith and therefore requires belief in that faith. Everyone, irrespective of their main subject, participates in the RE programme. The other is Relgious Studies which is an objective study of the main world religions and does not require a person to be affliated with any particular denomination. My main subject is RS which is why I take both programmes. My other subject is History.

I believe I do have a missionary spirit. I would not be in teacher training as a religious educator if I did not. However I do not believe in forcing my views on anyone and I’ve always found contentious debates to be counterproductive and further instill hatred and division. I live in Northern Ireland and as you live in Israel and are Jewish, you can perhaps understand that and there is a difference between talking to someone and talking at them.

A priest who taught me once said ‘you should leave your words between yourself and the person you are talking to and let them choose whether they pick your words up or not.’

 

[Ben_Masada]

ole utter nonsense,Jesus was born a Jew but died a Chriatian! Thats why His followers were stoned by the religious establishment…and never allowed to preach in the temples etc!.From the Passover plot,Last temptation of Jesus,DeVinci Code …etc etc the attack on Jesus continues un-abatted…also the organization…‘Jews for Jesus’ is hated by certain elements also…gee,using your theory,wonder why he asks…

Jesus died a Christian! Is this for laughs or for the gags? Read Acts 11:26. Christians started with Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.
If the dead could hear what you have just said, Jesus would have turned in his grave.

 

[matahari]

YOU could be a reincarnation of Saint Paul, before he SAW THE LIGHT. Reincarnation - Oops ! wrong religion . Actually, I’m going to quote the Great Man of God because you have slandered him.! 2.Corinthians 3:6 Listen up Ben. " He also it is who has made us fit ministers of the New Covenant , not of the letter but of the Spirit, FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE;"

 

[minkymurph]

**Now, be absolutely sure that what you will be preaching is food for the soul, because snakes use the same method. After they bit the prey they let it go and wait for the poison to take its effect. Then, they just collect the boot. **

Not quite sure how to take that.

 

[ryanoneil]

** I agree with you that’s impossible to discard the Word of God. So, when Isaiah identifies Israel with the Suffering Servant, I hope you won’t discard it. **

I don’t, but we Christians see a second fulfillment of these verses in Christ.

**When Jesus fulfilled the Law, I am glad to know that it was not discarded. As he said himself in Matthew 5:19, we all have to do the same. **

Yes, to fulfill means to “make complete”. The sacrificial laws expired with the sacrifice of Christ. The moral law (ten commandments) are retained and refined.

I also agree with you that Testament is just another word for Covenant. So, I don’t want to hear anymore about Old Testament, because this implies the existence of a New Testament, and our Scriptures is not an Old Testament.

But you said Jeremiah 31:31 has been fulfilled. Why don’t you have a New Testament proclaiming it?

**Judaism does not speak of the end of the Law. I am sure you did not understand what you read. There is no end to the Law. Why don’t you read Psalm 119? I am sure you will change your mind **

The “Law” I’m speaking of is the second law.

No longer will they have need to teach their friends and kinsmen how to know the LORD. All, from least to greatest, shall know me, says the LORD, for I will forgive their evildoing and remember their sin no more. (Jer 31:34)

The Levites would no longer have to stand between God and His people because God would dwell amidst his people. The golden calf rebellion and Baal-Peor would be remembered no more and there is no need for a second legislation.

Why would the people be forced to relive their sin, and do penance for it by ritually slaughtering the “gods” they once worshipped, when their sin is remembered no more?

Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you, nor for your holocausts, set before me daily. I need no bullock from your house, no goats from your fold. For every animal of the forest is mine, beasts by the thousands on my mountains. I know every bird of the heavens; the creatures of the field belong to me. Were I hungry, I would not tell you, for mine is the world and all that fills it. Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats? Offer praise as your sacrifice to God; fulfill your vows to the Most High. (Ps 50:8-14)

There is a big difference between the law given by Moses and the Law given at Sinai, which is presented as God’s own words, delivered by God directly. Moses had ordered the people to circumcise their hearts but he recognized that Israel was incapable of that - that only the grace of God could change the hearts of the people.

Therefore I gave them statutes that were not good, and ordinances through which they could not live. (Ezek 20:25)

The LORD, your God, will then bring you into the land which your fathers once occupied, that you too may occupy it, and he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. The LORD, your God, will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, that you may love the LORD, your God, with all your heart and all your soul, and so may live. (Deut 30:5-6)

The Mosaic Law (especially Deuteronomy) was designed to establish and maintain Israel as a nation-state. Jesus invited the scribes and Parisees to recognize the Mosaic Law as God’s temporary arrangement for Israel.

He said to them, "Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. (Mat 19:8)

It was a means of drawing them closer to God by seperating them from the sins of the Gentiles. But eventually God would write his Law on their hearts. The temporary national phase would come to a close, and a new level of covenant righteousness would stretch beyond the one nation of Israel- to encompass the interanational kingdom of David.

**Therefore say to the house of Israel: Thus says the Lord GOD: Not for your sakes do I act, house of Israel, but for the sake of my holy name, which you profaned among the nations to which you came. I will prove the holiness of my great name, profaned among the nations, in whose midst you have profaned it. Thus the nations shall know that I am the LORD, says the Lord GOD, when in their sight I prove my holiness through you. For I will take you away from among the nations, gather you from all the foreign lands, and bring you back to your own land. I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees. You shall live in the land I gave your fathers; you shall be my people, and I will be your God. (Ezek 36:22-28). **

Under the New Covenant all nations can share in God’s blessing and become covenant people where “God’s Law” (not Moses") penetrates to the heart.

 

[Lapell]

And why do you have to add an extra meaning to Jesus words on the cross? When he said, “It’s finished,” what makes you think that he meant the Law? Everyone can see that you are immitating the Pauline policy to get rid of the Law. Jesus meant the end of his life; not the end of the Law. He would not contradict himself so blatantly. What you are doing is not good for someone who can think.

“Getting rid of the Law” is quite exagerated, Ben! You are taking things quite litterally, it seems. Jesus did his share, yet there is still a share that we have. The 10 Commandments are not abolished at all.
But with Jesus" self-sacrifice offered to God and accepted by Him, we don’t need to slain animals any more to show Him repentance for our sins. We Catholics confess them in the Sacrement of Penance… Better get reconciled than always having to have “An eye for an eye; a tooth for a tooth: a life for a life”. Do you understand all the why of the things required in Judaism, Ben? The reason is certainly not to have you boasting haughtily at the expense of others. What’s the point of God showing us His ways and customs and wanting us to follow Him here on earth. Don’t be too quick to condemn what you don’t understand, Ben.

 

[Lapell]

You think you know what you are talking about, but i think you actually don’t, even though you can’t see it.

 

[Lapell]

Jesus died a Christian! Is this for laughs or for the gags? Read Acts 11:26. Christians started with Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.
If the dead could hear what you have just said, Jesus would have turned in his grave.

Of course He couldn’t die a “Christian”, since Christians are His followers! He was following His Father, the Master of the Universe. To the extent that he had to clash with many Pharisees and priests and scribes. To the extent that some viewed him as breaking the Sabbath and as committing a blasphemy…

 

[Lapell]

**Christians started with Paul about 30 years after Jesus had been gone.
**

There were Christians before, Ben, only they were not called Christians before that passage taking place in Antioch. Those following Jesus before His death and who started preaching Him after His Resurrection or rather the Pentecost right after (see Acts 2) already were Christian, really…

 

[ricko]

There were Christians before, Ben, only they were not called Christians before that passage taking place in Antioch. Those following Jesus before His death and who started preaching Him after His Resurrection or rather the Pentecost right after (see Acts 2) already were Christian, really…

“It was in Antioch that the disciples were called Christians for the FIRST time”

Correct, they were Christians long before the above quote. They were known by many different names such as “The Church of Christ”, “The Church of God” and “The Way” or “The New Way”. It wasn’t the name change that made them Christians, it was their choice to follow Jesus that make them Christians and then to be called Catholics about AD100.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The Mark of the Beast

Christians, especially Protestants, and among them, the Seventh-Day Adventists in particular, enjoy to talk about the mark of the Beast; and with fantastic definitions, that only make a ridiculous picture of themselves. Then, they charge each other with the potential to get the mark of the Beast. They think of almost everything but the real thing, which is given by the NT itself.

I think this is the Fundy equivalent of science fiction - many Christians are opposed to the reading of non-factual narratives, & the “predictions” of Revelation help to fill the gap.​

The mark of the Beast appears in conjunction with the Antichrist. Morphologically, the term Antichrist is composed of two words: Anti and Christ. Anti means to stand against
or to contradict. Christ means what Christians believe Jesus was. So, what stands
against Christ is only obvious that it means the Antichrist.

According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared that he had not come to abolish the Jewish laws. Then, 30 years later, Paul came and said that what Jesus said was not true, but rather that the Jewish laws were abolished on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

As we can see, Paul stood against what Jesus said by contradicting his words about his purpose regarding the Jewish laws. If Jesus was indeed Christ, as Christians believe he was, it’s only obvious that Paul acted as the Antichrist.

Now, where did Paul say the Jewish laws were abolished? On the cross. And what did the cross mean to him? “God forbid,” he said, “that I should glory in anything save in the cross.” The cross meant the glory of Paul. (Gal. 6:14)

It’s what he boasted in - **not **what made him someone to boast of. He is not talking about hisworth at all, but about that of the Cross. The Cross is to be boasted of - not Paul (!)​

Now, we have the mark of the Beast: The cross, a symbol of shame and a curse to the Anointed of the Lord, who, in the words of Habakkuk 3:13, is the People of Israel, the Jewish People.

Now, your comments are welcome.

Ben.

 

[Ben_Masada]

YOU could be a reincarnation of Saint Paul, before he SAW THE LIGHT. Reincarnation - Oops ! wrong religion . Actually, I’m going to quote the Great Man of God because you have slandered him.! 2.Corinthians 3:6 Listen up Ben. " He also it is who has made us fit ministers of the New Covenant , not of the letter but of the Spirit, FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE;"

Read Matthew 5:19. If to obey the Law down to the letter killed, Jesus would not have told us to observe and teach it without any change. Besides,
Ezekiel says that there is life in the observance of the Law. (Ezek. 18:21) And Isaiah says that the only way to set things right with God is through repentance and obedience.(Isa. 1:18,19

 

[matahari]

Read Matthew 5:19. If to obey the Law down to the letter killed, Jesus would not have told us to observe and teach it without any change. Besides,
Ezekiel says that there is life in the observance of the Law. (Ezek. 18:21) And Isaiah says that the only way to set things right with God is through repentance and obedience.(Isa. 1:18,19

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“Not one jot or one tittle shall be lost from the Law until all things have been accomplished. Whoever does away with one of these least commandments shall be called least in the kingdom …However in Chapter 23 He spoke in no uncertain terms about the hypocricy of the Scribes and Pharisees in what is called the Seven Woes. “And they bind together heavy and opressive burdens and lay them on mens shoulders, but not with one finger of their own do they choose to move them…and love the first place at suppers and the front seats in the synagogues…Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men…because you pay tithes on mint and anise and have left undone the weightier matters of the Law. Shortly before His crucufuxion Jesus is with His three closest disciples. He is praying and is transfigured before them. They see him speaking with Moses and Elias, the representatives of the Law and the Prophets about His forthcoming death as the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets. On the cross Jesus spoke Seven words. One of those words was " It is accomplished” meaning " It is done” It is complete" I refer you back to your quote from Matthew 5:18 not one jot or one tittle shall be lost from the Law until all things have been ACCOMPLISHED"

 

[Ben_Masada]

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"Not one jot or one tittle shall be lost from the Law until all things have been accomplished.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I think this is the Fundy equivalent of science fiction - many Christians are opposed to the reading of non-factual narratives, & the “predictions” of Revelation help to fill the gap.​

It’s what he boasted in - **not **what made him someone to boast of. He is not talking about hisworth at all, but about that of the Cross. The Cross is to be boasted of - not Paul (!)​

Thank you! You have confirmed my views. He gloried himself in the cross, because the cross meant almost everything to him.

 

[ryanoneil]

Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. (Mt 5:18)

The Temple was a miniature replica of the world and an architectural model of the universe fashioned by God.

 

[Ben_Masada]

There were Christians before, Ben, only they were not called Christians before that passage taking place in Antioch. Those following Jesus before His death and who started preaching Him after His Resurrection or rather the Pentecost right after (see Acts 2) already were Christian, really…

Why, because you have decided that they were Christians?
You must be kidding! Show me that they were Christians and we are in business. And regarding that speech delivered in Acts 2, the speaker was a Gentile and not Peter, perhaps even Luke himself, but only on the paper, because, in Jerusalem, that speech could never be delivered. Listen to how the speaker introduces himself.: “You who are Jews, indeed all of you staying in Jerusalem…” This speaker could never be a Jew and much less Peter, who could never be an anti-Semite to accuse the Jews with having crucified Jesus. (Acts 2:23) It’s better to think of this as an interpolation by Luke who wrote this more than 50 years after the alleged fact.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. (Mt 5:18)

The Temple was a miniature replica of the world and an architectural model of the universe fashioned by God.

Sure! Whatever you say.

 

[ryanoneil]

Sure! Whatever you say.

God chose the tribe of Judah, Mount Zion which he favored. He built his shrine like the heavens, like the earth which he founded forever. He chose David his servant, took him from the sheepfold. From tending sheep God brought him, to shepherd Jacob, his people, Israel, his heritage. He shepherded them with a pure heart; with skilled hands he guided them. (Ps 78:68-72)

In the year King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a high and lofty throne, with the train of his garment filling the temple. Seraphim were stationed above; each of them had six wings: with two they veiled their faces, with two they veiled their feet, and with two they hovered aloft. “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts!” they cried one to the other. “All the earth is filled with his glory!” At the sound of that cry, the frame of the door shook and the house was filled with smoke. (Isa 6:1-4)

 

[Lapell]

You are the one twisting the meaning of the only Scriptures that Jesus used to read. Everything I say here I give you a quotation to check it out. If you don’t, it’s because you must be afraid to find out I am right. You guys are not interested in the truth, as long as the Church tells you what the truth is. Your mind is the mind of the Church. You don’t have a mind of your own. I am sorry. I don’t mean any offense. But it’s high time you start thinking for yourselves.

Ever heard of the saying that half-truths are complete lies? Even when some part in it is true…