The Mark of the Beast

[sambos671]

Regardless of what may be made of it, the number 666 is still consistent with the whole of the bible.

Now, if it weren’t, then I would not view it the way I do.

There are patterns that are consistent through out the bible which are key to understanding.

The greatest consistency is with the number 7.

Blessing’s, AJ

I would like to see who 666 better fits a “pattern that is consistent throughout the bible that is key to understanding” The fact is that the book of revelation is apocalyptic literature more closely related to the popular apocalyptic literature of the day. It is closely related to 1 Enoch or the Assumption of Moses or the book of Jubiliees. And can be understood in that context. I think there is a danger to end up doing what the Kabbalist do with the Torah try to make numberical significance of prophesy. & is often meant to be whole in scripture or fullness as is the number 10 and when you have 7 * 10 you have the entire completion in fullness of something. 40 often means generational it also is meant in time frames or periods such as with Noah. or 3 is a representation of the trinity. But even with these view of numerology in the bible it still doesn’t signify what John meant in Revelation.

 

[cthulhubryan]

**There is a slight difference between Josephus and the gospel writers. Josephus’ mind was not tight by preconceived notions. The Gospel writers had the ghost of Paul tormenting them not to forget that Jesus had to be Christ.

Regarding the gospels having been written long before Constantine was even born, I remember. Don’t worry. But you should remember what editors can do, especially when over their shoulders stood the Church with such a position of power.

I do not hate anyone or anything. I am only trying to fix the image of Judaism, which you distort in the eyes of the world by using a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it. If you had started with a Greek man and not Jesus, we would not be having this discussion.**

Fix the image of Judaism? Neither the Christian church in general nor I in specific distort the image of Judaism. Jesus came and taught of a new way, the way of the cross. This is a new covenant with Gentiles that has no effect on the existing covenant. Is you image of God so small that you believe He cannot hold two covenants?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Fix the image of Judaism? Neither the Christian church in general nor I in specific distort the image of Judaism. Jesus came and taught of a new way, the way of the cross. This is a new covenant with Gentiles that has no effect on the existing covenant. Is you image of God so small that you believe He cannot hold two covenants?

**Jesus was a religious Jewish man. And you should know much better that in Judaism, which was the Faith of Jesus, there is no such a thing as Greek Mythology. Every time you speak of Jesus as son of God with a woman, you are distorting the image of Judaism in the eyes of the world. Whoever does not know about true Judaism will obviously think that there is no difference between our Faith and Pagan Mythology.

Jesus did not teach a new way. Read Matthew 5:19. He came to confirm the old way to the letter. The way to the cross! What are you talking about? Is that the impression you have of us? We are no masochists. Where did you get the idea that the way of the cross is the way of the Jew? What you are telling me is that there is no difference between you and the Romans who crucified thousands of Jews just like Jesus.

We have had several Covenants with God; not just two. But the New Covenant was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34. It has nothing to do with Gentiles. The Covenant made with all Mankind is the Noahite Covenant. That’s the Covenant made with the Gentiles. **

 

[Lapell]

If you can understand the reason for the following verse, you will see the reason for the for the rejection: Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

The builders are Israel of which were true to the God of Abraham, careful to carry out the laws to the letter.
Jesus comes and tells them that He is the only way to the Father (God of Abraham) and that they should now come through Him, upsets their whole theology, labeling Jesus a blasphemer worthy of death.

To understand the cross as being the crossroads between the old and the new is to see God in Jesus, as God reconciling the world back unto Himself.

What the sacrifice do for humanity is save their lost souls, for up until Jesus came and paid the price, there was no hope of salvation, due to the strictness of the law.

The soul being saved without our help liberates us to be who we want to be.

The consequence of that is that for those who have no knowledge of the saving grace that paid for their souls salvation can only live out their lives with what they know and understand.

And example would be folks dedicated to please God, by what ever name they choose to call Him, yet faithful to that cause are in bondage to that cause.

But for those by reason of knowledge and experience understand the saving grace of God are liberated both in body and soul.

Liberated in body I mean not subject to any human belief system, but are liberated to honor God within their own temple where God does reside, and that is their souls heart.

Therefore greater is He that is inside than he that is on the outside giving us victory over the outside.

Blessing’s, AJ

Were you talking of God’s “rejection” of Israel or of Israel’s rejection of God? I thought you meant the first of these…

 

[Lapell]

Jesus was never accused of being a blasphemer, because we know he was not.

You KNOW it, Ben? Since YOU were not there in the year 30, or around it, when it happened, I think you should tell us your sources in the details. Just how have you come to “know” it? If you want us to believe you, I think you should tell us. And if you got it from a false information, Ben? What then?

 

[Lapell]

** I do not hate anyone or anything. I am only trying to fix the image of Judaism, which you distort in the eyes of the world by using a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it. If you had started with a Greek man and not Jesus, we would not be having this discussion.**

We did not start with a Greek man, so what? We are not responsible for Jesus being a Jew, and the Messiah, and God the Son, the Word of God made flesh. The Apostles, including Paul himself, are not responsible for it either. Torture us if you want, we won’t change what we affirm. Actually, the message is not ours, it’s God’s. Even the Church does not have the authority to change it. You’re not Christian, you can’t understand…

 

[sambos671]

**There is a slight difference between Josephus and the gospel writers. Josephus’ mind was not tight by preconceived notions. The Gospel writers had the ghost of Paul tormenting them not to forget that Jesus had to be Christ.

Regarding the gospels having been written long before Constantine was even born, I remember. Don’t worry. But you should remember what editors can do, especially when over their shoulders stood the Church with such a position of power.

I do not hate anyone or anything. I am only trying to fix the image of Judaism, which you distort in the eyes of the world by using a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it. If you had started with a Greek man and not Jesus, we would not be having this discussion.**

Jesus was Jewish. Of that there is no doubt. However, this is where the Jews begin to have serious problems with Jesus:

16He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. 17The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor."[e]

20Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, 21and he began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

22All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.

23Jesus said to them, "Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself! Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’ "

24"I tell you the truth," he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27And there were many in Israel with leprosy[f] in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”

28All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this.

I find this interesting. I’ve heard you and other Jews say “we don’t care what the gentiles do” Yet Jesus is saying that salvation is being offered to the Gentiles despite the Jews. Elijah was sent to Jezebaals home town of Sidon. She was horrible for the Northern Kingdom. They (the Jews in this passage don’t seem to mind the Messianic passage but the indication that its going to the gentiles) Hmmmm. John the baptist most likely raised by Essenes also had something similiar to say

And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 9The axe is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."

In otherwords. “Its not enough to be Jewish” but to do the will of God. Hmmmm. Why do you suppose?

 

[look3467]

Were you talking of God’s “rejection” of Israel or of Israel’s rejection of God? I thought you meant the first of these…

It was Israels rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah as prophesied in the old Testament.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

There is allot of information not readily understood in that verse.

First: Rejection, why?
Second: As a man, He was acquainted with sorrows, grief as like us.
Third: This part is not understood but by a very few and that is this: “we hid as it were our faces from him;”.

The word “we” and the words “hid our faces from Him” is indication that Jesus knew only that which was given to Him to know and understand because He was in human form and must be acquainted with the flesh as like we are.

That part is what is hard for humanity to understand because they can not see God the Father in human form, or better understood as, denying Jesus sonship with the Father making Him equal to God.

Not only that but the face of God was also hidden from the Jewish high priest in Jesus, so they recognized Him not.

The way to look at God is to take the bible as a whole and see the underling theme from the beginning to the end of the book.

It is about God’s works in our behalf and not the other way around.

Mankind can do absolutely nothing for God that is of any value to God except God first initiates it in us.

That initiating by God in each one of us is the key to all understanding.

That is the in reaching for the tree of life as per Genesis made available to us today.

Sorry if I get long winded, but the love for God’s word is my first love.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[look3467]

Ben

I do not hate anyone or anything. I am only trying to fix the image of Judaism, which you distort in the eyes of the world by using a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it. If you had started with a Greek man and not Jesus, we would not be having this discussion.

First if I may, give you credit for the love that you demonstrated in word, quote"**I do not hate anyone or anything" **which is the second camandment that Jesus gave us.
And credit given for peace making between the Jewish nation and the world.

If all religious organizations practiced that, it would make for a better world.

Understand one thing, when God placed the tree of knowledge in the garden, as per Genesis, evil will always be with us.

Having said that, peace will always be a struggle especially for all peoples.

It is in the midst of a hellish environment that love can only be born and demonstrated.

If everything were perfected, what could we add to it to make it even a bit more perfect?

The apostle Paul understood this when He said, "We glory in our infirmities, in our trials and tribulations, because in them is where love is made perfect.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[Ben_Masada]

First if I may, give you credit for the love that you demonstrated in word, quote"**I do not hate anyone or anything" **which is the second camandment that Jesus gave us.
And credit given for peace making between the Jewish nation and the world.

If all religious organizations practiced that, it would make for a better world.

Understand one thing, when God placed the tree of knowledge in the garden, as per Genesis, evil will always be with us.

Having said that, peace will always be a struggle especially for all peoples.

It is in the midst of a hellish environment that love can only be born and demonstrated.

If everything were perfected, what could we add to it to make it even a bit more perfect?

The apostle Paul understood this when He said, "We glory in our infirmities, in our trials and tribulations, because in them is where love is made perfect.

Blessing’s, AJ

Thank you for your lovely words, but love cannot be commanded. Love is an emotion, and no one can be commanded to feel. I think Jesus meant respect. This yes, can be commanded and even enforced.

 

[Lapell]

Thank you for your lovely words, but love cannot be commanded. Love is an emotion, and no one can be commanded to feel. I think Jesus meant respect. This yes, can be commanded and even enforced.

Love IS a conscious decision that one makes… have you never had a repulsion for certain people and yet decided, maybe with the help of God’s Commandment, to genuine try will all your will and all your might? It doesn’t mean they will reciprocate your love immediately, or that they ever will! On YOUR side, though, you’ll have tried!

 

[Lapell]

Why would there then be a need for a commandment from God that you love your neighbour as your own self (everybody who is your neighbour, not just those of your kind!)???
Not every neighbour, even among your kind, is that easy to bear…

 

[Ben_Masada]

Love IS a conscious decision that one makes… have you never had a repulsion for certain people and yet decided, maybe with the help of God’s Commandment, to genuine try will all your will and all your might? It doesn’t mean they will reciprocate your love immediately, or that they ever will! On YOUR side, though, you’ll have tried!

Really! Try this with a woman, if you are a man, or with a man, if you are a woman. Then, if you are still there tell us or yourself how you faired. That’s what I call a naive thought.

 

[sambos671]

Really! Try this with a woman, if you are a man, or with a man, if you are a woman. Then, if you are still there tell us or yourself how you faired. That’s what I call a naive thought.

If you’ve been married for 20 years you may find that love is a decision.

 

[Ben_Masada]

If you’ve been married for 20 years you may find that love is a decision.

No human being can ever decide to love. It does not make sense at all. One can decide to accommodate, but to love, never believe such a thing. One either loves or he doesn’t.

 

[sambos671]

No human being can ever decide to love. It does not make sense at all. One can decide to accommodate, but to love, never believe such a thing. One either loves or he doesn’t.

This is not true. It seems to me that you’re equating the euphoric feeling that hormones cause to an eternal consept. Love. Hormones die or fade and you hear married people say things like “I no longer love you”. Impossible. Is this what God has shown us? Love has many different aspects certainly one aspect is homonal based at least its what draws us. But love is a decision also that we make. A commitment we keep. A trial that we work through. All along the way holding the object of our love above ourselves. If your married to a hot woman and as time goes by and she gains weight and no longer is hot do you stop loving her because the “feeling is gone?” No there is a commitment. God loved Abraham and what did he do? Made a covenant. A contract. A commitment. And even when Abraham angered God, God never stopped loving him. Never stopped working and showing Abraham that God would be faithful to his commitment.

 

[Ben_Masada]

This is not true. It seems to me that you’re equating the euphoric feeling that hormones cause to an eternal consept. Love. Hormones die or fade and you hear married people say things like “I no longer love you”. Impossible. Is this what God has shown us? Love has many different aspects certainly one aspect is homonal based at least its what draws us. But love is a decision also that we make. A commitment we keep. A trial that we work through. All along the way holding the object of our love above ourselves. If your married to a hot woman and as time goes by and she gains weight and no longer is hot do you stop loving her because the “feeling is gone?” No there is a commitment. God loved Abraham and what did he do? Made a covenant. A contract. A commitment. And even when Abraham angered God, God never stopped loving him. Never stopped working and showing Abraham that God would be faithful to his commitment.

Well, I would let you convince me that there are many faces to love, but with different subtitles. The love stirred by hormones, which we could call it passion. The love that causes us to commit ourselves to stay put, let’s call it habit. The love of God comes only through the knowledge of Him. The more we learn about God, the more we get to love Him. That’s knowledge. The love of God to Abraham was conventionalized by Abraham himself due to his dedication to God. The personal love of God is one-way street. Don’t forget that God is no respecter of people.

 

[Lapell]

Really! Try this with a woman, if you are a man, or with a man, if you are a woman. Then, if you are still there tell us or yourself how you faired. That’s what I call a naive thought.

You ARE confusing love with sympathy and attraction towards others, Ben.
You may also be confusing it with the “coup de foudre”. Might lead to true love but is NOT love itself! Ever read Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, the whole chapter 13?

 

[sambos671]

Well, I would let you convince me that there are many faces to love, but with different subtitles. The love stirred by hormones, which we could call it passion. The love that causes us to commit ourselves to stay put, let’s call it habit. The love of God comes only through the knowledge of Him. The more we learn about God, the more we get to love Him. That’s knowledge. The love of God to Abraham was conventionalized by Abraham himself due to his dedication to God. The personal love of God is one-way street. Don’t forget that God is no respecter of people.

I haven’t. And no matter how you subtitled love at one point there is a decision one makes to love. God initiated the covenant with Abraham not the other way around. Unless I’m misunderstanding you. Habit is an interesting point. I’ll have to think on it because our definitions may not coincide with this word. Love works this way BTW the more you love something the more you learn about it which brings about more love. It can be applied to God and anything else. However, I will agree that the Love of God is the ultimate thing we are to do. Our responce to all else should stem from this love of God that we have.

 

[look3467]

Thank you for your lovely words, but love cannot be commanded. Love is an emotion, and no one can be commanded to feel. I think Jesus meant respect. This yes, can be commanded and even enforced.

If feelings were the criteria for the kind of love that Jesus commanded us to practice than this verse is of no earthly good: Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Jesus was beaten, spat on, lashed 39 times tearing the flesh of His back, crowned with a crown of thorns piercing the head to the point that the face was unrecognizable.
Mocked, laughed at and pierced hands and feet with spikes.

Are we to think that feelings were the criteria?

No! It was commitment. Commitment to His Father that the Fathers will be done over His own will.

Therefore, commitment becomes a commandment in that it becomes a standard by which our own feelings are exempt.

That is why in the marriage vowels, it is promise is made that for richer, for poor, in sickness and in health, becomes a commitment, therefore a commandment.

The standard by which a marriage can sustain, apart from feelings, the marriage institution sacred.

Can Jesus expect from us something that He Himself could/would not do?

In fact, Jesus expects us as His disciples/friends to do as He did if called to do so: 1Jo 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

The big issue here is self!

How much of self are we willing to commit?

The love of God in us gives us the power over self when we are committed, married to Him, if you will, therefore the commandment becomes the standard.

Blessing’s, AJ
r
P.S. I’ve will celebrate forty-first anniversary this year.