The Mark of the Beast

[Ben_Masada]

“Any decision to love will end in hatred and probably tragedy”? Really, then what ever you’re calling love isn’t. The Greeks had four terms you must be limiting to one of these consepts. Eros possibly, definately not Phileo. And certainly not Agape. You speaking of something other than love and useing the term love to express it. We must first agree on what we are talking about.

**We are discussing in English and not in Greek. I have tried to subtitle
love but you seem not to find it acceptable. If we decide to commit ourselves to someone whom we have no passionate love, that’s what I mean by ending up in hatred or even tragedy. Call it eros, if you like. The commitment to stick together no matter what, is no longer love but habit or secondary needs.

The love of God comes only through the knowledge of God. The love to our neighbour is reflected in the respect we have for him or her. The love to children is parental. The love to siblings is fraternal. And so on and on. Got it now? **

 

[Ben_Masada]

It’s too bad many people who experience suffering think it’s a punishment from God and a sign that He rejected them… It’s not the truth!!

Congratulations Lapell. We are finally of the same mind on this one.

 

[Ben_Masada]

You seem to have a quite restricted set of definitions of what love is… Is God Love, or not? Charity according to 1 Cor. 13 IS a high kind of love… “Charity begs anonymity to be classified as love”, you say. Where did you take this. There is a difference between begging anonymity and not “sounding trumpets” whenever we help our neighbour in need! For when you make it public all the time, is that real loving charity at work or just the search for the people’s congratulations?

**I am realistic, that’s all. God is Love indeed, but the only way to print it on us is by increasing our knowledge of Him. Direct charity is humiliation and not love. Charity becomes love when it is institutionalized, and the charity is made without either the knowledge of the source or of the recipient. **

 

[Ads]

Chapter 13
Things i add will be in (brackets)

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast (Beast meaning in prophecy Kingdom/political power) rise up out of the sea,( sea meaning peoples/tongues/nations. so the Beast/kingdom comes out from a populated nation) having seven heads and ten horns,(horns mean King/kingdom) and upon his horns ten crowns,(crowns= rulers or rulership) and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard(Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Babylon), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(as the mouth of a lion = as of the mouth of Jesus/Powerful King): and the dragon (Dragon= Devil) gave him(him meaning the beast/kingdom/political power) his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;(The Catholic Church/the Beast recieved a deadly wound Even though the Roman Church flourished during the 1260-year period, Revelation 13:3 tells us that the beast would indeed suffer a deadly wound, and this prophecy was exactly fulfilled in the year of 1798. "In 1798, 1260 years later [from 538], the pope was taken into captivity and the Catholic Church was dealt a mortal blow. It happened just as Revelation had foretold, with remarkable accuracy…During the French Revolution and under orders from the revolutionary French government, General Alexander Berthier [one of Napoleon’s generals] issued a proclamation in Rome on February 15, 1798, informing Pope Plus VI and the people of Rome that the pope should no longer 'exercise any function.) and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon(devil) which gave power unto the beast(kindom/political power): and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (42 months/1260 days=1260 years. A day = a year in prophecy, Eze 4:6 so 42 months = 1260 years. the time the Catholic Church ruled from 538AD to 1798)
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints,(Saints= Gods true people) and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb,(this is America) and he spake as a dragon. (Dragon=Devil)
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him,(so America will exercise the power of the first Beast/Catholic Church - you can see this happening today) and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Healed now because the Church will rise back to power with the US)
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (So if you are still true to Gods true word at this stage you will not recieve the mark, but if you believe in the teaching of this Beast/Kingdom/Political power, you will recieve the mark in the forehead - meaning in the mind by believing in them. NOT A REAL MARK. You will recieve the mark in the hand if you dont believe but just go along with it to keep the peace and so you can buy and sell.)
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The Pope wears a triple tiered crown which means he is the king of Heaven and Earth and Purgatory this is writen on it
V I C A R I V S F I L I I D E I
Letters to numbers =
5 1 100 0 0 1 5 0 0 1 50 1 1 500 0 1
TOTAL 666

Anti also means in place of.
Anti-Christ = In place of Christ
Who does the Pope say he is the rep of?

 

[sambos671]

Look, you must know by now where I am coming from: Judaism, the Faith of Jesus. I am sure you know also, that there is no such a thing in Judaism as heresies of Greek Mythology. Then, we are talking about a religious Jew. How can you say that Jesus, a Jew is made equal with God the Father? That’s what I call distortion of Jduaism in the eyes of the world by using a Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it. Please, have mercy!

What about Philo who married Jewish and Greek philosophy?

 

[sambos671]

Look, you must know by now where I am coming from: Judaism, the Faith of Jesus. I am sure you know also, that there is no such a thing in Judaism as heresies of Greek Mythology. Then, we are talking about a religious Jew. How can you say that Jesus, a Jew is made equal with God the Father? That’s what I call distortion of Jduaism in the eyes of the world by using a Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it. Please, have mercy!

Judaism is different today than it was in Jesus day. In fact I would go so far as to say Judaism today is really an out crop of Judaic movement around 250 AD (CE) starting primarily at what was left of Jerusalem but really got its strength in Babylon. Then Matured through the years and through different events until this very day. Jesus would not have recognized the Jews of Today by their teachings except to say for several commonalities that are fewer than you think. What do you think Jesus would have thought of Yiddish? Though he would see that your lack of belief in an afterlife equates to the Sadducees of his day.

 

[sambos671]

**We are discussing in English and not in Greek. I have tried to subtitle
love but you seem not to find it acceptable. If we decide to commit ourselves to someone whom we have no passionate love, that’s what I mean by ending up in hatred or even tragedy. Call it eros, if you like. The commitment to stick together no matter what, is no longer love but habit or secondary needs.

The love of God comes only through the knowledge of God. The love to our neighbour is reflected in the respect we have for him or her. The love to children is parental. The love to siblings is fraternal. And so on and on. Got it now? **

Yes and this is where our discussion breaks down because I believe, in a marriage context, love to be greater than eros. If Marriage was limited to eros then I would agree with you. However, I don’t believe that. I believe that ultimate love comes from the love of God. Ok but then I believe that we are then asked by God to then apply God’s love for us that we experience in our love for him to other humans in the human race. But if we were to put a priority on it; it would first be with our spouses to children to family to every one else on the planet. Kind of like an overflowing bucket of water (but with love). Since this is where I’m going with my view of love and you’re staying with the passionate aspect we’re missing each other.

 

[Ads]

Don’t have much to say except that personal theories like this are why I became Catholic. The early Church at the time knew St. Paul was pointing people to Christ, not away from Christ. Building a belief on a few scriptures, (like the SDA do), which contradict the Tradition and Magisterial teaching of the Church, which existed long before lay people like you and me had our own copies of scripture to misinterpret, only causes divisions among people.

Ben Masada,
I am interested in your Religion, and that you reside in Israel. Can you specify which type of Jew you are?

I do believe SDA’s build their beliefs on scripture like you said, and if it contradicts your traditions and teachings like you said then they contradict the Bible.

 

[jpaul1953]

**So, you love Jesus because he didn’t want to do it but did it for the greater good. This is cruelty from your part and masochism from the part of Jesus. Is that how you want him to be reminded of?

So, Jesus could have asked of God to send a legion of angels and get rid of the Romans, and escape death. Nevertheless, he asked for something easier: To remove that cup without his having to drink it. Either way, he got no reply from God. Neither for what he asked nor for what he did not ask. Therefore, the poor man was forced to walk the via dolorosa against his will. And you love him for that. Let God keep me far away from this kind of lovers. **

/quote Dear Ben,
I do not know how to even answer this remark except to say that maybe you are just wanting to be contrary or just initiate discussion, but from where I see you you present yourself from a total secular position. Your views seem quite limited to me. I mean no harm in what I say. I truly just don’t know how you get from a-b. You sound like you have never experienced the love of Jesus in your life. Again, I may be wrong and mean you no harm.

May Go guide us all.

Jpaul1953

 

[jpaul1953]

**The main characteristic of the Antichrist is Antisemitism. Christ is the word in Greek for the Anointed One. Since according to Habakkuk 3:13, Israel, the Jewish People is the Anointed of the Lord, or Christ, it’s only obvious that the Antichrist must be first and foremost an anti-Semite. **

Ben,

And Nero was an anti-semite… But once again you confuse me. Jesus came to complete the message of the Torah by becoming the word made flesh so there could no longer be any misinterpretation of God’s will or word. The difference between thinking you know what God meant and knowing what God meant, because Jesus is here to explain it in black and white.

Now that I believe I realize you are Jewish and one who does not accept Christ to be the reason you confuse me with your logic. Most of this is not governed by logic. And many of the views you have about Bible verses are not the views held by the Church.

With love and kindness.

May God Bless you on your journey.

jpaul1953

 

[Ben_Masada]

What about Philo who married Jewish and Greek philosophy?

At least nobody ever said that Philo was son of God in the Greek or Christian sense.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Judaism is different today than it was in Jesus day. In fact I would go so far as to say Judaism today is really an out crop of Judaic movement around 250 AD (CE) starting primarily at what was left of Jerusalem but really got its strength in Babylon. Then Matured through the years and through different events until this very day. Jesus would not have recognized the Jews of Today by their teachings except to say for several commonalities that are fewer than you think. What do you think Jesus would have thought of Yiddish? Though he would see that your lack of belief in an afterlife equates to the Sadducees of his day.

There you go again Sambos, with your big eye in the reward of an afterlife. Do you know something? If I were God, and there was Heaven as an afterlife, I would never give it to people who all they can think is “what is in there for me,” to serve God. It’s even embarrassing for lack of a better word.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Yes and this is where our discussion breaks down because I believe, in a marriage context, love to be greater than eros. If Marriage was limited to eros then I would agree with you. However, I don’t believe that. I believe that ultimate love comes from the love of God. Ok but then I believe that we are then asked by God to then apply God’s love for us that we experience in our love for him to other humans in the human race. But if we were to put a priority on it; it would first be with our spouses to children to family to every one else on the planet. Kind of like an overflowing bucket of water (but with love). Since this is where I’m going with my view of love and you’re staying with the passionate aspect we’re missing each other.

**Before we break our discussion down, just one more question, then I will rest my case. When you first got married, was the basis anything else but eros? Be honest okay? You don’t owe anything to me neither do I owe you anything. Don’t be shy to confess that it was eros. Then, with the years, other items took place in the agenda, which contributed for habit to settle. Then a different kind of love took place to keep the companionship. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

/quote Dear Ben,
I do not know how to even answer this remark except to say that maybe you are just wanting to be contrary or just initiate discussion, but from where I see you you present yourself from a total secular position. Your views seem quite limited to me. I mean no harm in what I say. I truly just don’t know how you get from a-b. You sound like you have never experienced the love of Jesus in your life. Again, I may be wrong and mean you no harm.

May Go guide us all.

Jpaul1953

Hi Jpaul, you are being too romantic here. How could I have experienced the love of Jesus in my life if he had been dead almost 2,000 years before I was born? I don’t want you to think that I am trying to be funny. I do know what you mean. Have you forgotten I am Jewish? Have you ever heard that Jews usually have a mind of their own?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben,

And Nero was an anti-semite… But once again you confuse me. Jesus came to complete the message of the Torah by becoming the word made flesh so there could no longer be any misinterpretation of God’s will or word. The difference between thinking you know what God meant and knowing what God meant, because Jesus is here to explain it in black and white.

Now that I believe I realize you are Jewish and one who does not accept Christ to be the reason you confuse me with your logic. Most of this is not governed by logic. And many of the views you have about Bible verses are not the views held by the Church.

With love and kindness.

May God Bless you on your journey.

jpaul1953

About thinking to know what God meant, what makes you think that He meant to make Himself flesh in Jesus? Paul? The Church? Can you see what I mean? That’s why I still stick to the only Scriptures that Jesus used to handle. He never saw your NT, did you know that?

 

[sambos671]

**Before we break our discussion down, just one more question, then I will rest my case. When you first got married, was the basis anything else but eros? Be honest okay? You don’t owe anything to me neither do I owe you anything. Don’t be shy to confess that it was eros. Then, with the years, other items took place in the agenda, which contributed for habit to settle. Then a different kind of love took place to keep the companionship. **

I’ll be glad to be honest with you. When I first saw the woman who was to be my wife it was all eros. I spent time with her and became her friend and slowly devloped a eros/phileo type of love. I spent more time with her and it developed even further (I spent three years getting to know her before we got married) I didn’t Marry until I was 33 so by the time I wanted to Marry here I made a decision to love her no matter what may come. And we had the covenant of marriage. And its been good ever since. We’ve had our arguments and struggles but I love her more today than then. I definately wouldn’t call it habit. And if she were to be seriously ill no matter what my feelings are I will be there for her. I strive to have an agape type of love with her and its not terrible. Go figure.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Chapter 13
Things i add will be in (brackets)

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast (Beast meaning in prophecy Kingdom/political power) rise up out of the sea,( sea meaning peoples/tongues/nations. so the Beast/kingdom comes out from a populated nation) having seven heads and ten horns,(horns mean King/kingdom) and upon his horns ten crowns,(crowns= rulers or rulership) and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard(Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Babylon), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(as the mouth of a lion = as of the mouth of Jesus/Powerful King): and the dragon (Dragon= Devil) gave him(him meaning the beast/kingdom/political power) his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;(The Catholic Church/the Beast recieved a deadly wound Even though the Roman Church flourished during the 1260-year period, Revelation 13:3 tells us that the beast would indeed suffer a deadly wound, and this prophecy was exactly fulfilled in the year of 1798. "In 1798, 1260 years later [from 538], the pope was taken into captivity and the Catholic Church was dealt a mortal blow. It happened just as Revelation had foretold, with remarkable accuracy…During the French Revolution and under orders from the revolutionary French government, General Alexander Berthier [one of Napoleon’s generals] issued a proclamation in Rome on February 15, 1798, informing Pope Plus VI and the people of Rome that the pope should no longer 'exercise any function.) and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon(devil) which gave power unto the beast(kindom/political power): and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (42 months/1260 days=1260 years. A day = a year in prophecy, Eze 4:6 so 42 months = 1260 years. the time the Catholic Church ruled from 538AD to 1798)
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints,(Saints= Gods true people) and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb,(this is America) and he spake as a dragon. (Dragon=Devil)
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him,(so America will exercise the power of the first Beast/Catholic Church - you can see this happening today) and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (Healed now because the Church will rise back to power with the US)
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (So if you are still true to Gods true word at this stage you will not recieve the mark, but if you believe in the teaching of this Beast/Kingdom/Political power, you will recieve the mark in the forehead - meaning in the mind by believing in them. NOT A REAL MARK. You will recieve the mark in the hand if you dont believe but just go along with it to keep the peace and so you can buy and sell.)
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The Pope wears a triple tiered crown which means he is the king of Heaven and Earth and Purgatory this is writen on it
V I C A R I V S F I L I I D E I
Letters to numbers =
5 1 100 0 0 1 5 0 0 1 50 1 1 500 0 1
TOTAL 666

Anti also means in place of.
Anti-Christ = In place of Christ
Who does the Pope say he is the rep of?

What is seriously wrong with you? People like you give Protestants a terrible name. Do some research of church history my friend, also for the first 1500 years, the world was Catholic…but I sense where this will lead.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The Pope wears a triple tiered crown which means he is the king of Heaven and Earth and Purgatory this is writen on it
V I C A R I V S F I L I I D E I
Letters to numbers =
5 1 100 0 0 1 5 0 0 1 50 1 1 500 0 1
TOTAL 666

What a bunch of bull pucky.

Let’s see…

VISA is mark of the beast:
VI=6 (Roman), S=6 (Greek), A=6 (Babylonian)… 666!

Ronald Reagan’s first, middle, and last names all have six letters in them, as did his nickname, the “Gipper” - 666! He was voted to become President in 1980. Add 1+9+8+0 and you get 18, which is 6+6+6, or 666!

On a telephone dialpad, “Mom” is spelled with the digits 666!

So VISA, Ronald Reagan, and all mothers are evil too.

Like I said - bull pucky.

 

[look3467]

What is seriously wrong with you? People like you give Protestants a terrible name. Do some research of church history my friend, also for the first 1500 years, the world was Catholic…but I sense where this will lead.

I would like to add that Ads view is one once held by me.
We all have to understand that many of us, both Catholic’s and Protestants, have been subject to what was the current views of our spiritual leaders.

Ads view is a current view held by some protestant groups about the Catholic Church.
Many have views that does not place them in danger of hell, if you will, because they are going by what they believe to be the truth.

Catholics are not excluded in that in times passed, persecution of the heretics were believed to be the right thing to do.

So, we are all as like children spiritually, learning here or there new revelations as God sees fit to reveal to us at the appropriate times.

What needs to be understood is the basic principle of love, God’s type of love towards our brethren who may or may not be privy to the more mature spiritual understandings of some of us.

It is therefore, a burden placed on those who are spiritually mature to lead, not force, not by deception nor by any other motive, but to help arise the spirit of God in them so that they to may grow spiritually.

I wouldn’t ban ads from this thread because it shows the opposite view, and perhaps, somewhere down the line some of us may ,help him understand otherwise.

I did explain my views on the 666 number and though it was at the time of the early church a description in code of what was happening then, it still is applicable in code to revelation of the word of God as a picture of Gods works.

Simply put, God used and uses things happened and happening in this world to hide His message, to where only those whose motive is love for God and His word may have the favor of understanding been given.

But until then, things remain so that people will continue to seek answers, to seek after God, because that’s the way He instituted it.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[cthulhubryan]

**Peter never wrote that Letter. Even Saint Joseph’s edition of the Catholic New American Version of the Bible, in the preface to 2Peter says that an unknown author wrote that Letter and entitled it according to Peter. In fact, none of the writings of the NT comes from a Nazarene Jew. They were all written by Gentiles who had been a former disciple of Paul’s. **

And the Torah was written the ancient sumerians in order to confuse the Jews.

See, it’s easy to play the crazy game.