The Mark of the Beast

[O.S.Luke]

The first protestant sects didn’t crop up until Martin Luther and John Calin, and John Wesley in the 1500’s to 1600’s. Then they started cropping up like fruit flies.

The Wesley’s (John and Charles) would be the 1700’s.

 

[Lapell]

The BIBLE was in 500 languages? I’d need to see a little more proof than just your word on that. You’re telling us that in 500 AD, the Bible was in 500 languages? Really?!?

Good point, O.S. Luke!

 

[Lapell]

The way I read it that it states that many scholars believe it was not written by Peter. Not that it wasn’t written by Peter.

One point though, I thought it was general knowledge Peter was illiterate early on. Not sure, just thought that was the consensus.

jpaul1953

Illiterate, that I frankly don’t know. That he was from the common people, this I am sure.
The letters of Paul were written by someone else, but dictated by him. And he signed them with his own hand. The letters of Peter may follow the same pattern. Also the Gospel according to Mark was really after Peter…

 

[Lapell]

I think the point was more about the authorship of the things said in Peter’s letters, rather than a matter of whose handwriting it was!!!

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

By 500AD the Bible was in 500 languages and by 600AD only 1. Why? So people could be told what to believe.

First 1500 years?? i dont think so

Look i’ll say what i think and you do with it what u want. By 538AD the Church Built by the Christian faith was poluted by paganism and the true word was kept by the likes of the Waldensies and preached in secret for fear of prosecution (sorry about my spelling)
The true word was spread slowly but never died, and through the reformation Gods true word was once again restored in a remnant Church. In the end days Gods people will be the ones that stay true to the 10 Commandments and have the testimony of Jesus.

How can the bible be written in 500 languages by the year 500A.D.? This would mean that it was written in the times of Christ here on earth. Think of how wrong your information is and how silly you look. There wasn’t a Protestant to see the light of day until the 15th century.

 

[Ben_Masada]

But if sinners sin to one point and then somehow they are brought to repent with their whole heart, should they still be punished for their actions before they repented? If the sin was very serious, for instance, was there any provision for their case?

Isaiah 1:18,19 = Restitution or retribution, then repentance and obedience to God’s Law.

Izekiel 18:21,22 = Restitution or retribution, then repentance and obedience to God’s Law.

That’s the law of cause and effect. One cannot be forgiven with a lip-service of repentance without somehow paying for his or her transgression to the Law.

 

[Ben_Masada]

So, faith IS a choice. To continue to love despite every obstacle also is a choice…

Everything is a choice we make. Haven’t we all freewill?

 

[Ben_Masada]

You forget the second part of Jesus’ prayer: “However, Thy will, not mine, be done!” The “poor man” then received the needed strength to face His ordeal to the end, which was what His prayer really was asking for.
In this prayer: “Lord Jesus Christ, we adore You and we bless You, for by your Cross You have redeemed the world”, there is our reason for loving Him.

Tell me Lapell, do you think we are morons? Jesus prayed for that cup, which he meant the cross, be taken away without his having to go through it. Are you trying to rewrite the gospels to avoid a contradiction? That time is gone. The Fathers of the Church should have done that in the 4th Century when they canonized the the books of the NT. Now, it’s too late. And when Jesus said, “be Thy will done and not mine,” he meant that to die on the cross was not his will. So, we don’t have to be a Solomon to understand that he died against his will. Capacci?

 

[look3467]

Tell me Lapell, do you think we are morons? Jesus prayed for that cup, which he meant the cross, be taken away without his having to go through it. Are you trying to rewrite the gospels to avoid a contradiction? That time is gone. The Fathers of the Church should have done that in the 4th Century when they canonized the the books of the NT. Now, it’s too late. And when Jesus said, “be Thy will done and not mine,” he meant that to die on the cross was not his will. So, we don’t have to be a Solomon to understand that he died against his will. Capacci?

The choice was Jesus’ to will His will, as in not forced, but will-in-ly.
To will ones will is not against one’s will because it is offered… willingly.

That is the key to the whole of man’s creation, that the creature created would freely give of himself to God willingly.

God wanted individualism, hence, "in the image of God, yet He wants our adoration.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[Ben_Masada]

The choice was Jesus’ to will His will, as in not forced, but will-in-ly.
To will ones will is not against one’s will because it is offered… willingly.

That is the key to the whole of man’s creation, that the creature created would freely give of himself to God willingly.

God wanted individualism, hence, "in the image of God, yet He wants our adoration.

Blessing’s, AJ

So, why would he pray to get rid of the cross in the first place? Didn’t he know that’s what God wanted? Are you too trying to stop the sun with a sieve? How could Jesus will his will into God’s will by asking God to change His will? You guys must be kidding!

 

[look3467]

So, why would he pray to get rid of the cross in the first place? Didn’t he know that’s what God wanted? Are you too trying to stop the sun with a sieve? How could Jesus will his will into God’s will by asking God to change His will? You guys must be kidding!

In order for God to fulfill dotting every i an crossing every t of the law , His law, in humanities place, God in Jesus had to experience every form of temptation common to humanity.

Therefore, Jesus was allowed to know only what was necessary for accomplishing His mission.

Let me quote you a verse from the old Testament in reference to this: Isa 42:19 Who is] blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger [that] I sent? who [is] blind as [he that is] perfect, and blind as the LORD’S servant?
Not physically blind but spiritually limited to ony what the Father revealed to Jesus.Jesus did know thatthat He was about His Fathers business, understanding His mission, yet being tempted as we are tempted.

The except with Jesus is that the Spirit of God was in Him in strenght to endure such trials and temptations.

Jesus had to be a lamb without blemish if He was to be offered up as the once for all sacrificial lamb of God.

So Jesus’ natural inclination, as is human, was to avoid the road to the cross.

The burden was all most to much to bear as human and needed spiritual reinforcement

The Father knew that, yet Jesus must/had to go at it alone, for only God can forgive sins and none other.

Jesus knew enough to know that His mission pleased the Father, giving Jesus complete authority to continue, which willingly, Jesus gave over to the Fathers will as His own.

That, my friend, fulfills in two commandments the standard Jesus left: Love God and thy neighbor as thy self.

			  			Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.Jhn 15:13

Jesus willingly laid down His life for the love of God and brethren for His last words were:

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots Luk 23:34

If you Ben, loved some one so much, would you will yourself to that person?
Remember that it would be a choice, and could be under any circumstances.

God is to be loved, honored and praised for the love He demostrated in Jesus for us, for now we have access to the Holiest of Holies directly, for there no longer is a curtain of division between heaven and earth.

You and I can access the Father directly via the sacrifice of Jesus!

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[peary]

Interesting thought, but does not fit.
**
Revelation 13:16-18

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.**

What I think is cool is that 666 really is the number of man. We are carbon based. Carbon consists of 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons.

So, what you are saying is that 666 is carbon. Oh, great, something else we can get taxed on!

 

[Ben_Masada]

In order for God to fulfill dotting every i an crossing every t of the law , His law, in humanities place, God in Jesus had to experience every form of temptation common to humanity.

What difference did it make if he was god? Are you speaking about a charade?

Therefore, Jesus was allowed to know only what was necessary for accomplishing His mission.

Thanks for letting me know that he was not god or even a son of God.

Let me quote you a verse from the old Testament in reference to this: Isa 42:19 Whois] blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger [that] I sent? who is blind as [he that is] perfect, and blind as the LORD’S servant?
Not physically blind but spiritually limited to ony what the Father revealed to Jesus.Jesus did know thatthat He was about His Fathers business, understanding His mission, yet being tempted as we are tempted.

**This quotation of Isaiah is a reference to Israel, the Suffering Servant, who was blind to understand why he was removed from the Land of the Living, which is the Land of Israel. **

Jesus had to be a lamb without blemish if He was to be offered up as the once for all sacrificial lamb of God.

Nevetheless, lambs continued being sacrificed for another 40 years until the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE.

So Jesus’ natural inclination, as is human, was to avoid the road to the cross.

You are saying then, that he took the via dolorosa against his will. I thought so all along.

The Father knew that, yet Jesus must/had to go at it alone, for only God can forgive sins and none other.

So, why did Jesus say “your sins are forgiven” to that guy whom they brought down from the ceiling?

Jesus knew enough to know that His mission pleased the Father, giving Jesus complete authority to continue, which willingly, Jesus gave over to the Fathers will as His own.

Now, you are rewriting the text. He said, “Thy will, NOT mine.” So, it was not his own. I think you should give it up because you are getting yourself trapped in your own spider web.

That, my friend, fulfills in two commandments the standard Jesus left: Love God and thy neighbor as thy self.

Jesus was a Jew, and a Jew is much more intelligent to know that’s impossible to “love thy neighbor as thyself.” Perhaps he meant respect.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.Jhn 15:13
Jesus willingly laid down His life for the love of God and brethren for His last words were:
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots Luk 23:34

Jesus did not lay down his life willingly. What’s the matter? You don’t understand simple English? He said, “be Thy will done and NOT mine.” Yes, it was God’s will but not his. Can anything be more basic than that?

If you Ben, loved some one so much, would you will yourself to that person?
Remember that it would be a choice, and could be under any circumstances.

**If you mean to lay down my life stupidly just like that, of course not! Neither for a child of mine nor a parent. Life is more important than anything else. But to fight for, I could mention here a few reasons, more than just one or two. **

God is to be loved, honored and praised for the love He demostrated in Jesus for us, for now we have access to the Holiest of Holies directly, for there no longer is a curtain of division between heaven and earth.

That’s Pauline rhetoric that butters no bread.

You and I can access the Father directly via the sacrifice of Jesus!

We have been doing this for thousands of years without the help of Jesus. Who added the change, Paul? Who was Paul, an apostate Jew who brought Greek Mythology to Judaism? Thank you but no thanks.

 

[cthulhubryan]

The way I read it that it states that many scholars believe it was not written by Peter. Not that it wasn’t written by Peter.

One point though, I thought it was general knowledge Peter was illiterate early on. Not sure, just thought that was the consensus.

jpaul1953

Written by or dictated by makes little difference.

 

[sambos671]

Written by or dictated by makes little difference.

So who will be eaten first?

 

[cthulhubryan]

You are saying then, that he took the via dolorosa against his will. I thought so all along.

So, why did Jesus say “your sins are forgiven” to that guy whom they brought down from the ceiling?

Now, you are rewriting the text. He said, “Thy will, NOT mine.” So, it was not his own. I think you should give it up because you are getting yourself trapped in your own spider web.

Ben Ben Ben, must you continue your diatribe of Hate and Lies? “Thy will, not mine” does not mean that it is against Jesus’ will but that he willingly aligned his will with the will of his Father. Since Jesus IS God He could very well forgive sins.

Jesus was a Jew, and a Jew is much more intelligent to know that’s impossible to “love thy neighbor as thyself.” Perhaps he meant respect.

So, Jews are all intelligent? What did we call that when you assume something based upon racial/cultural stereotypes? Perhaps intelligent is not the word you want for yourself, perhaps intransigent?

Jesus did not lay down his life willingly. What’s the matter? You don’t understand simple English? He said, “be Thy will done and NOT mine.” Yes, it was God’s will but not his. Can anything be more basic than that?

Again, he aligned his will with that of his Father.

**If you mean to lay down my life stupidly just like that, of course not! Neither for a child of mine nor a parent. Life is more important than anything else. But to fight for, I could mention here a few reasons, more than just one or two. **

Truly, I pity you and even more I pity any wife or children you may have. If your life is the most important thing to you, then were do they or God fit in?

That’s Pauline rhetoric that butters no bread.

We have been doing this for thousands of years without the help of Jesus. Who added the change, Paul? Who was Paul, an apostate Jew who brought Greek Mythology to Judaism? Thank you but no thanks.

Again with the Paul stuff. Have you no shame?

 

[Lapell]

Maybe but many dialects are very similar. Even with the hundreds in China, you could probably boil them down to between 10 and 20 major ones, maybe even less. My dad spoke 3 main dialects and he could understand just about anyone from any other village or province. The written language in China was country wide, so he could read what anyone else wrote.

I suspect it is simlar in other countries where there are many dialects. My guess is there are probably less than 200 written languages world wide.

Maybe. The Slavic languages also have many words quite common from one to another, with sometimes a different spelling and pronunciation. Strangely enough, they are called languages, not dialects!

 

[Lapell]

Tell me Lapell, do you think we are morons? Jesus prayed for that cup, which he meant the cross, be taken away without his having to go through it. Are you trying to rewrite the gospels to avoid a contradiction? That time is gone. The Fathers of the Church should have done that in the 4th Century when they canonized the the books of the NT. Now, it’s too late. And when Jesus said, “be Thy will done and not mine,” he meant that to die on the cross was not his will. So, we don’t have to be a Solomon to understand that he died against his will. Capacci?

Maybe YOU are trying to rewrite how to understand the Gospels. Who is a moron? I am not looking for morons. But when there are things said that seem so superficial and said in a supercillious way, you can’t help wonder and, if you feel it necessary, ask questions and speak your mind.

 

[Lapell]

Tell me Lapell, do you think we are morons? Jesus prayed for that cup, which he meant the cross, be taken away without his having to go through it. Are you trying to rewrite the gospels to avoid a contradiction? That time is gone. The Fathers of the Church should have done that in the 4th Century when they canonized the the books of the NT. Now, it’s too late. And when Jesus said, “be Thy will done and not mine,” he meant that to die on the cross was not his will. So, we don’t have to be a Solomon to understand that he died against his will. Capacci?

Would you refuse, reading the Tanakh, to imagine for a minute that you are Moses, or Aaron, or even Balaam (or Bil’am) or the Pharaoh so as to try to understand what they were experiencing, how they understood things and what may have made them decide to do or not to do this or that…?

 

[Lapell]

I think you refuse to do just that when it comes to Jesus, the Apostles, Paul, Stephen… instead you prefer to rely on commentaries designed to keep anyone from ever wanting to join the non-kosher Christian faith (that is, non-kosher in the eyes of the Jewish religious authorities from Caiaphas the High Priest and the Sanhedrin of his time to our days.