The Mark of the Beast

[Wesley7]

The -Mark of the Beast- is likely something that God (The Holy Trinity) uses to identify something as demonic or satanic.

 

[Lapell]

**Noooo! How could you imply that I should think the Pope responsible for the Holocaust? I just thought he could have done much better towards the numbers of murdered Jews. That’s all. I think even the American Jewish leaders did not do enough. **

Pope Pius XII did more FOR the Jews during the Nazi regime that all the heads of State in the world together. What he could he did. Ask the Italian Jews. Everybody could have done much more and much better, of course, but you and I are not living under the Nazi boot, so it’s quite easy to say.

 

[Lapell]

If Jesus had been a secular Jew, he could have never said what is written in Matthew 5:17-19. If I discarded even the 20 percent which I agree about Jesus, I would have to discard the man altogether, and regard him to being only a caprice of Paul’s imagination. He is described in the NT; and since there were a few like him, I believe he was there.
Lapell: -Well said. For once, I agree with you here.

That Mary was impregnated by a Roman soldier, I don’t want to believe it, and I do blame Christians for forcing non-Christians to believe it, but I have two sources, a book, “The Myth of the Pax Romana” by a German Scholar of the 19th Century, Prof. Erick Hinnerman and from a Lecture on the Historical Jesus at Stanford University on line.

You don’t want to believe it, well you don’t have to believe it either, for that rumor is false! I don’t care if the author of the rumor calls himself a Christian, it disagrees with the teachings of the Church, and so the rumor in itself is not Christian. Just dismiss it!

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Gosh! This post of yours should be called the poles of Planet Earth. They can be placed in the extremities from each other. As mordern as the future still to come and as in the past as the Middle Ages. What a jump from atomic weapons in the hands of terrorists to apparitions of people who have died 2000 years ago. You are amazing, did you know?

I assume you know Revelation was supposed to have been written by John on the Island of Patmos, in which he described a vision which featured, amongst other things, some of the events in the future.

Evidence for Mary and her appearances -

Lourdes 1858 / 59 - numerous recorded medical miracles (and I suspect there have been a lot more healings where the patient couldn’t be bothered going through all the rigmarole of having it checked), and the incorrupt body of St. Bernadette Soubirous, the visionary.

For photographs of her startlingly well preserved body and beautiful face, go to the following (you;'ll have to scroll down a bit) -

pbase.com/shaunwin/the_incorruptible

Fatima - 1917 - 2 miracles, predicted in advance by the three children, so that on the day of 13 October 1917, there were 70,000 people there, many of them skeptics who just wanted to debunk. But then the sun started to dance, and after raining all morning the sodden ground and peoples’ clothes were instantaneously dry and clean. Scientists have calculated that the energy required to do this should have vaporised everybody.

For a brief story on this one, go to -

theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/appariti/fatima.html

This is the description of Hell as given by one of the chldren, as shown at that time -

"She opened Her hands once more, as She had done the two previous months. The rays [of light] appeared to penetrate the earth, and we saw, as it were, a vast sea of fire. Plunged in this fire, we saw the demons and the souls [of the damned]. The latter were like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, having human forms. They were floating about in that conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames which issued from within themselves, together with great clouds of smoke. Now they fell back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fright (it must have been this sight which caused me to cry out, as people say they heard me).

Akita - 1973

“Beginning on September 20, 1973, the statue began to sweat from the face to the feet. Tears began to flow down the face. Also, a very pleasant odor was felt in the chapel. This happened many times in the presence of others, including the Bishop. In all, the statue wept a total of 101 times. On October 13, 1973, Our Lady gave Sister Sasagawa this serious message: “As I said before if mankind does not repent, the Heavenly Father will inflict a very serious punishment on the whole world; a punishment the likes of which has never happened before. Many people will perish. Pray the Rosary often. Only I can prevent the disaster. Whoever entrusts themselves to me will be saved.” The statue continued to weep and other messages followed. Pilgrims came and many received answers to their prayers. Then, in 1981, Theresa Chon, who was suffering from terminal brain cancer, was miraculously healed through the intercession of Our Lady of Akita. This healing was well documented by Fr. Joseph Oh of Seoul, S. Korea.”

For photographs, go to -

medjugorjeusa.org/akitaphotos.htm

The church hasn’t grown for 2000 years for nothing from 12 disciples to over a billion, while Judaism has barely expanded at all. You’ve missed the boat.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

The -Mark of the Beast- is likely something that God (The Holy Trinity) uses to identify something as demonic or satanic.

The qualifying condition was that nobody could buy or sell. Revelation 13:16 'Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell who does not have the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name."

In this day and age when a real world empire is possible, with world wide monitoring possible, with enormously powerful computers easily capable of monitoring billions of transactions, and with the current overriding military capacity of the USA, the conditions are potentially there.

Back when it was written, the “world” consisted of the Roman Empire, which was a long way from being the world as a whole.

I’m wary of fundamentalist theories about the end-times. For a start I think the anti-Christ will be an American politician, whereas fundamentalists think he’ll be anyone but an American. I think he’s around today. However I probably differ from a lot of Catholics in that I originally came from a Protestant denomination, although mainline. There is far more discussion on end-times issues amongst Protestants than in Catholic circles. But I also think the Church is asleep in regard to this issue. When you consider the warning that came through Mary at Akita for example, one would think the hierarchy would be a bit more concerned than they appear to be.

An extract showing what is already being done with technology.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Mark Of The Beast Technology Really Catching On At Fast Rate

Rather than search their pockets for house keys, a Vancouver couple this winter implanted tiny computer chips in their hands. Now, with just a quick wave, the door opens.
No question it’s convenient. Amal Graafstra says he can also start his computer with the chip instead of typing in a password. But it’s also easy to imagine how quickly this new technology, radio frequency identification chips, could be put to more Orwellian use. Alberta Privacy Commissioner Frank Work says human chip implantation is inevitably coming to Canada, though there’s been precious little debate about the ethics of putting such technology to work here. Many uses will be “well-intentioned” at first, says Work. But there are bound to be more troubling uses with serious implications for individual privacy, he says. In 2004, the U.S. approved the use of microchips for patients’ health records, and a few hundred doctors have bought such chips for implantation. If you end up in the hospital emergency ward, the chip could be helpful to medical staff who could get an instant picture of your medical history. But who would have access to all the information? Will police or insurance companies also get it?
These microchips already end up coming home in the clothes you buy, although they aren’t supposed to activate after they leave the store. Every new shirt will soon have a chip to allow for inventory control. The potential uses of the microchip for surveillance and security in police work are obvious, and both tempting and troubling. A U.S. company is touting the VeriChip, an identification tag injected into the flesh that could be used to verify a credit-card purchase. But the company is also marketing it as a way to identify immigrants and guest workers.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Pope Pius XII did more FOR the Jews during the Nazi regime that all the heads of State in the world together. What he could he did. Ask the Italian Jews. Everybody could have done much more and much better, of course, but you and I are not living under the Nazi boot, so it’s quite easy to say.

I read a book, “My Brother’s Keeper,” by a Holocaust Survival, Jacob Friendland; I don’t know how he came to know about this, but he said that Pope Pius XII had decided to make his voice heard only after America declared war on Germany. Why? Because only then, he had come to the realization that the war was lost for Hitler. What are we to make of this?

 

[Ben_Masada]

You don’t want to believe it, well you don’t have to believe it either, for that rumor is false! I don’t care if the author of the rumor calls himself a Christian, it disagrees with the teachings of the Church, and so the rumor in itself is not Christian. Just dismiss it!

I see you put too much in the “teachings of the Church.” I tell you, if they don’t agree with the Scriptures, which I have proved they don’t, they become as false as any other rumor from another source. Sorry if you are disappointed at my statement. Nothing personal here.

 

[Ben_Masada]

The church hasn’t grown for 2000 years for nothing from 12 disciples to over a billion, while Judaism has barely expanded at all. You’ve missed the boat.

**The Church did not grow from the 12 disciples, but from Paul, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. Read Acts 11:26. And the fact that it has grown to over a billion says nothing about the Truth, because Islam has grown larger and much faster. Does it say they have the Truth? I didn’t think so.

Now, to ridicule Judaism for having not grown enough to compete with the Church and Islam, I have a question for you: Do you know how many little stones are there in our Planet? Billions, trillions, zillions, we can’t count. Do you know how many precious little stones are there? You might not know, but it’s possible to count. Did you get the picture?**

 

[Bob_Crowley]

**The Church did not grow from the 12 disciples, but from Paul, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. Read Acts 11:26. And the fact that it has grown to over a billion says nothing about the Truth, because Islam has grown larger and much faster. Does it say they have the Truth? I didn’t think so.

Now, to ridicule Judaism for having not grown enough to compete with the Church and Islam, I have a question for you: Do you know how many little stones are there in our Planet? Billions, trillions, zillions, we can’t count. Do you know how many precious little stones are there? You might not know, but it’s possible to count. Did you get the picture?**

What’s so special about Jews? They’re just two legged, trousered apes like the rest of us.

 

[twb1621]

The Mark of the Beast

According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus declared that he had not come to abolish the Jewish laws. Then, 30 years later, Paul came and said that what Jesus said was not true, but rather that the Jewish laws were abolished on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15)

As we can see, Paul stood against what Jesus said by contradicting his words about his purpose regarding the Jewish laws. If Jesus was indeed Christ, as Christians believe he was, it’s only obvious that Paul acted as the Antichrist.

Now, where did Paul say the Jewish laws were abolished? On the cross. And what did the cross mean to him? “God forbid,” he said, “that I should glory in anything save in the cross.” The cross meant the glory of Paul. (Gal. 6:14)

Now, your comments are welcome.

Ben.

Totally misinterpreted and clarification to the claims against Paul in opposition to Christ. It should also be noted that Jesus was seeking the conversion of the chosen people of God the Father, The Jews, until many Jews refused to accept His salvation;

Biblical Historic Interpretation;
Matthew 5:17 [17-20] This statement of Jesus’ position concerning the Mosaic law is composed of traditional material from Matthew’s sermon documentation (see the note on ⇒ Matthew 5:1-⇒ 7:29), other Q material (cf Matthew 18; ⇒ Luke 16:17), and the evangelist’s own editorial touches. To fulfill the law appears at first to mean a literal enforcement of the law in the least detail: until heaven and earth pass away nothing of the law will pass (⇒ Matthew 5:18). Yet the “passing away” of heaven and earth is not necessarily the end of the world understood, as in much apocalyptic literature, as the dissolution of the existing universe. The “turning of the ages” comes with the apocalyptic event of Jesus’ death and resurrection, and those to whom this gospel is addressed are living in the new and final age, prophesied by Isaiah as the time of “new heavens and a new earth” (⇒ Isaiah 65:17; ⇒ 66:22). Meanwhile, during Jesus’ ministry when the kingdom is already breaking in, his mission remains within the framework of the law, though with significant anticipation of the age to come, as the following antitheses (⇒ Matthew 5:21-48) show.

Ephesians CH 2;
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 8 For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, 15 abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person 9 in place of the two, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the cross, putting that enmity to death by it. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near, 18 for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. 10 21 Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord; 22 in him you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
The Abolishing the law with it’s “commandments” referred to the commands or demands of the law and legal claims dividing Jews from “outsiders” to allow for the gentiles to join in Christianity. It didn’t refer to the Commandments of God.

continued next post…

 

[twb1621]

Continued from previous post;

Biblical Historic Interpretation; [11-22] The Gentiles lacked Israel’s messianic expectation, lacked the various covenants God made with Israel, lacked hope of salvation and knowledge of the true God (⇒ Eph 2:11-12); but through Christ all these religious barriers between Jew and Gentile have been transcended (⇒ Eph 2:13-14) by the abolition of the Mosaic covenant-law (⇒ Eph 2:15) for the sake of uniting Jew and Gentile into a single religious community (⇒ Eph 2:15-16), imbued with the same holy Spirit and worshiping the same Father (⇒ Eph 2:18). The Gentiles are now included in God’s household (⇒ Eph 2:19) as it arises upon the foundation of apostles assisted by those endowed with the prophetic gift (⇒ Eph 3:5), the preachers of Christ (⇒ Eph 2:20; cf ⇒ 1 Cor 12:28). With Christ as the capstone (⇒ Eph 2:20; cf ⇒ Isaiah 28:16; ⇒ Matthew 21:42), they are being built into the holy temple of God’s people where the divine presence dwells (⇒ Eph 2:21-22).

The body of juridical, moral, and ceremonial institutions, laws and decisions comprised in the last four books of the Pentateuch, and ascribed by Christian and Hebrew tradition to Moses.
The Torah, as a whole, was neither miraculously communicated from heaven, nor was it laboriously thought out and put together by Moses independently of external influences. It is sometimes hazardously asserted that it antedated Moses by a thousand years or more, since much that is in the Torah is found also in the Code of Hammurabi. Indeed, certain decrees in the Babylonian code are more excellent than their Mosaic parallels; in more important ones, however, the Torah takes precedence. It was the primitive condition of Hebrew society that dictated Israel’s first laws by leading to the establishment of family and tribal customs.

Source and Continued at;
newadvent.org/cathen/10582c.htm

 

[Genesius]

Ben, you keep asserting that Paul, and not Jesus, founded the Church, constantly referring to the book of Acts (which, the very fact that you refer to it indicates that you seem to give it some weight of authority)…while ignoring Jesus’ own words in Matthew 16, “…and upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH…”

Someone said earlier that you seem to be picking and choosing Christian Scripture, much like protestants do. I couldn’t agree more.

 

[twb1621]

Paul officially persecuted the Faithful of Christ until he himself was miraculously struck down by Jesus (note: after the Passion, Death and Resurrection and after His Ascension to Heaven) and subsequently converted to Christ dedicating himself to His ministry. He never knew Christ in the personal sense as did the original Apostles so His teachings were more theological and less related to specific events during the life of Christ.

“modern theologians now agree that St. Paul’s doctrine is Christocentric, that it is at base a soteriology, not from a subjective standpoint, according to the ancient prejudice of the founders of Protestantism who made justification by faith the quintessence of Paulinism, but from the objective standpoint, embracing in a wide synthesis the person and work of the Redeemer. This may be proved empirically by the statement that everything in St. Paul converges towards Jesus Christ, so much so, that abstracting from Jesus Christ it becomes, whether taken collectively or in detail, absolutely incomprehensible. This is proved also by demonstrating that what Paul calls his Gospel is the salvation of all men through Christ and in Christ.”

Refer to; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11567b.htm

You may also find the following site informative as well;
pauliscatholic.com/

 

[Nino]

Wrong. Anyone who does not believe in Christ (Revelation), is in fact the Anti-Christ.

Yes and Karl Marx was an anti-semite…read his college essay titled: On the Jewish Question" sad and revealing how the left has kept this part of their heros id so quiet…wonder why?

 

[sambos671]

Yes and Karl Marx was an anti-semite…read his college essay titled: On the Jewish Question" sad and revealing how the left has kept this part of their heros id so quiet…wonder why?

Wasn’t he Jewish?

 

[cthulhubryan]

**Noooo! How could you imply that I should think the Pope responsible for the Holocaust? I just thought he could have done much better towards the numbers of murdered Jews. That’s all. I think even the American Jewish leaders did not do enough. **

Despite being shown time and time again that Pope Pius XI was the first, and for years the only, world leader to condemn Hitler, you still claim that Pius didn’t do enough.
Despite the fact that he worked to get as many Jews as possible out of Germany (A process continued by Pius XII)

What would you have had him do? Take off his vestments and pick up a rifle?

 

[Lapell]

I read a book, “My Brother’s Keeper,” by a Holocaust Survival, Jacob Friendland; I don’t know how he came to know about this, but he said that Pope Pius XII had decided to make his voice heard only after America declared war on Germany. Why? Because only then, he had come to the realization that the war was lost for Hitler. What are we to make of this?

Well, I don’t know where he got this, but it happened not to be true. Maybe he was had by Communist propaganda, especially after playwright Rolf Hochhuth uttered the play The Deputy, which was not based on what truly happened and was published only several years after Pope Pius XII was dead…

 

[Genesius]

Bob…I too am a convert from Protestantism. In fact, although I explored several different denominations, the greatest influence on me in my formidable years were the Fundamentalists. I am somewhat familiar with the whole dispensationalist view of eschatology, but, having grown in my knowledge as a Catholic I wholeheartedly reject this erroneous view, and do embrace a more pretorist view. I would recommend to you my Catholic apologist friend’s (Carl E. Olson) book entitled, “Will Catholics Be Left Behind?”. It is a very scholarly critique of the whole dispensationalist worldview, including it’s very brief history.

On a sidenote, it is very interesting how dispensationalists go crazy about the “Mark of the Beast” while ignoring “The Mark of God” mentioned in the same passage. I am a Bible College graduate and I can tell you that the book of Revelation was written in much the same style as ancient Hebrew literature with a lot of metaphorical language and reference to Hebrew numerology (values given to numbers not just mathematical, but spiritual in nature as well, thus the “Mark of the Beast” being 666 is simply a number meaning “the beast” or those who follow the beast). In the same passage in Revelation, although it is not given a numerical value, the mark of God refers to those who follow God as opposed to the beast. It was never intended to be interpreted as a literal number embossed on people or credit cards, etc.

 

[Ben_Masada]

What’s so special about Jews? They’re just two legged, trousered apes like the rest of us.

**You will have your question extremely well answered if you read that book, “A History of the Jews” by Paul Jonhson. He is a Christian. I am not sure if his church is Catholic. But his book is the best I have read. He tells about the Jewish People from the time of Abraham until our modern times. And what kind of world we would have, if we would at all, without the Jews.

Just a taste as an answer to your question, the earth has reached more than five billion people. Only 14 millions are of Jews. Now, you can pick up all the Nobel Prizes given away since the beginning and select 50 percent for the 14 millions. The other 50 percent, you can share with the five billion. Most diseases owe their cure to the Jews. Let alone that we have given to the world the knowledge of the true God.

If you love to have fun, be aware that we would not have Hollywood if the Jews were not around. These 14 million on our planet keep more people at work than the five billion put together. And last but not least, America would not have won its war of Independency from the British if it were not for the famous Uncle Sam, a Jew called Samuel (Cohen) if I am not mistaken on the family name. Without his money, America would have sucumbed; at least for another ten or twenty years.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

The Abolishing the law with it’s “commandments” referred to the commands or demands of the law and legal claims dividing Jews from “outsiders” to allow for the gentiles to join in Christianity. It didn’t refer to the Commandments of God.

continued next post…

**Laws are composed of commands, and they are not given with the purpose to divide Jews from “outsiders.” This is a fabrication of Pauline rhetoric as a cop-out to mascarade his policy of Replacement Theology. **