The Mark of the Beast

[swariffin]

Wow! Is that Adrift, the one who taught me about ad hominem? You are denying reality, Adrift. John was a Jewish man and he was never known as the Baptizer but the Immerser. The term “Baptism” originated with Paul and his Hellenist disciples. (Acts 19:5) John was not a Christian. There was one here today who said that even Jesus too was a Christian. Another, some days ago, that Jesus was a Catholic. What is this, a show of jokes? If Jesus and John were not Jews, it could be detrimental for Christianity and the Church.

You are really funny thinking that a Jew or Jews cannot leave Judaism.

 

[SteveLohr]

**Do you know what is the meaning of the word “Christ” in Greek? Anointed of God. Now, read Habakkuk 3:13. It says in there that Israel, the People, is the Anointed of God. Therefore, the Christ of God. So, the Antichrist must be anyone who is anti-Jewish. Now, I ask, have I said anything that it is not in the Scriptures? How then do you explain your hostility? If you don’t have answers to my questions, don’t pick up my posts. You are wasting your time and the time of others. **

Ben-I’m not sure that Habukkuk makes the claim that Isreal is the Anointed of God. Habukkuk 3:13 reads:

You came out to deliver your people, to save your anointed one. You crushed the leader of the land of wickedness, you stripped him from head to foot. Selah

The word “anointed” is Strong’s H4899 which Strong’s defines as:

מָשִׁיחַ

mâshı̂yach

maw-shee’-akh

From H4886; anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically the Messiah:—anointed, Messiah.

In contrast, “your people” is H5971, which Strong’s defines as

עַם

ʽam

am

From H6004; a people (as a congregated unit); specifically a tribe (as those of Israel); hence (collectively) troops or attendants; figuratively a flock:—folk, men, nation, people.

In other words, it appears to “anointed one” refers to an individual, not a collective group of people. This verse appears to be a reference to the end times, when the antichrist attempts to persecutes both Israel and the Messiah, but is defeated. I agree that the antichrist will be antisemtic. I’m not so sure about the obverse of that argument. Despite the fact that antisemitism is a serious sin, I tend to doubt that anyone who is antisemetic is of the antichrist.

Regards,
SteveLohr

 

[Lapell]

Would you please explain to me what threat was Jesus to the Jews in the First Century, so that they would ask enemies occupiers of our Land to crucify him?

For one thing, the crowds following Jesus were thinking that Jesus was the promised Messiah. Why would they have chanted: “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord!” when he came into Jerusalem on a donkey’s back?
The Jewish authorities saw that because of him the Romans might come and do much damage to the Jewish people (which they did anyway when they destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem in 70 after the Jews revolted and later when the Jews revolted again, along with Bar Kochba…).
The main reason why they wanted to kill him, though, was because they thought him to have uttered a blasphemy by speaking of himself as being an equal to God, or even God Almighty (“Before Abraham was, I AM.”)

 

[Lapell]

They felt bound to do what the Torah asked to do in such a case. Even though I must say I am surprised at such a gut reaction when they hear a Jew say what they consider to be a blasphemy, like when deacon Stephanos was stoned in the Acts of the Apostles (chapters 6 and maybe 7)…
In Jesus’ case, the timing was against them. Passover had begun. That’s why he wasn’t stoned, but brought to the Romans.

 

[Lapell]

Jesus might also have been a threat to those among the Sanhedrin, maybe even the High Priest, who loved being at the spiritual head of the Jewish people and thought that if the Jewish population was acknowledging Jesus as their Messiah-King in the manner David and his descendants were, that would be the end of their leadership of the Jews…

 

[twb1621]

**Well my friend, to make lead float is not impossible for a Jew. Elisha did it to restore the ax his disciple had lost in the water. If you didn’t know, Elisha was Jewish. **

**And to know about Jesus as Messiah, you are mistaken, because there is no one in my Jewish heritage who believes Jesus was the Messiah. **

I gave you a web site of Jews who believe in Jesus Ben, unless you are referring to the new heritage you believe in against your historic heritage. but as usual you refuse to accept reality. And what I said was you are trying to make lead float Ben, not Elisha. And you, Ben, are no Elisha.

 

[ryanoneil]

**Do you know what is the meaning of the word “Christ” in Greek? Anointed of God. Now, read Habakkuk 3:13. It says in there that Israel, the People, is the Anointed of God. Therefore, the Christ of God. **

The Anointed of God is the theocratic king, the head of God’s people. Habakkuk say God comes forth to save his people and his king.

Afterward, however, David regretted that he had cut off an end of Saul’s mantle. He said to his men, “The LORD forbid that I should do such a thing to my master, the LORD’S anointed, as to lay a hand on him, for he is the Lord’s anointed.” (1 Sam 24:6-7)

Post 1055

**Please Ryanoneil, you can do much better than that! John the Baptist would immerse crowds of Jews in the Jordan everyday. That’s what he chose to do for an occupation. You speak of his doing it to Jesus as if Jesus had been the only Jew he ever immersed in waters. And next time you mention this, please use the word “immersion”. Jews don’t baptize. **
No Ben, I don’t speak of his doing it only to Jesus. You are missing the point. If I turned the tables I’d say you are claiming only Israel’s kings had oil poured on them.

**Now, you are assuming that II Samuel 7:14 is talking about Jesus. No wonder the whole NT is a gigantic treatise of plagiarism. **
II Samuel 7:14 is talking about David and all the kings of his line.

Now, take advantage of the tramp and stop by Exodus 4:22,23 and see if the language is not the same about the real son of God. “Israel is My Son…” Israel had not asked for or been given a king at this time. Of course God refers to Israel as His first-born son, but the idea of divine sonship was not applied to one individual until II Samuel 7:14. Face it Ben, God makes promises to individuals. God made the promise of Psalm 2:7 to David and all the kings of his line. Not only is the Lord’s Anointed, promised that he will be Son of God, but he also has all nations to “the ends of the earth” for his inheritance.

 

[Lapell]

Now, you are mistaken about me, Lapell. There is no Sage, Jewish or not, whom I would go by. I have read a lot of them. But where I see one who in my mind contradicts the Scriptures, I discard him. “Sola Escritura” is my motto.

You haven’t answered my question here, Ben! Where is it said in the TaNaKH that you have to go by Scriptures alone? Can,t you answer this simple question?

 

[Lapell]

What is your Escritura?

That’s Scriptures in Spanish… and maybe in Ladino too!

 

[jake23]

OneTrueCathApos;5469353:

**All you have to do is to open your NT and prove to me that Jesus was a Christian, because what I am aware of, is that Christians started with Paul in Antioch, about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. Read Acts 11:26. **

Yeah because you know paul personally! You use to hang out with him and know him to be a liar right? You sound more foolish everytime you talk! Give up the insecurities! If the Jews and the old law IS the only way then why do the Muslims own the place where the temple was? Why is there the dome of the rock? MY theory! a sign that youre poeple are vain and foolish for God sent down his only begotten son and all of you where not smart enough to recognize him! Sounds like stupidy is genitic! You sounds as foolish as a person who would claim the holocaust never existed! You are a disgrace to mankind! Grow up kid!

 

[twb1621]

That’s a lie of the gospel writer or of the Church. The High Priest would never condemn a Jew who came to uphold God’s Law, which is the most important thing in the life the Jewish People. (Mat. 5:19)

Ben, you are up to this point a lot of meaningless words with no credibility so I am going to ask you once more to refute each one of the following prophecies with credibility and support rather than worthless accusations and useless egotism.

Messianic Prophecy: What Is It?
Messianic prophecy is the collection of over 100 predictions (a conservative estimate) in the Old Testament about the future Messiah of the Jewish people. These predictions were written by multiple authors, in numerous books, over approximately 1,000 years. Messianic Prophecy is so dramatic today, because with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the reliability of the Septuagint version of the Old Testament (both of which have been proven to exist prior to the time Jesus walked on the earth) you can be assured that these prophecies were not “conspired” after-the-fact.

Messianic Prophecy: Fulfillment by Jesus Christ
Messianic prophecy was fulfilled by the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Although many Jews did not accept Jesus as their Messiah, many did, and they became the Jewish sect later known as the Christians. Christianity, based in dramatic part on the fulfillment of historical prophecy, spread rapidly throughout the Roman Empire of the 1st Century. Examine the prophecies yourself, and calculate the probability of one man fulfilling just a handful of the most specific ones, and you’ll be amazed.

“Jesus said to them, ‘This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.’” Luke 24:44 (NIV)

The Old Testament verses are the prophecy; the New Testament verses proclaim the fulfillment. Check them all out for yourself!

• Born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:21-23)
• A descendant of Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3; 22:18; Matthew 1:1; Galatians 3:16)
• Of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:23, 33; Hebrews 7:14)
• Of the house of David (2 Samuel 7:12-16; Matthew 1:1)
• Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2, Matthew 2:1; Luke 2:4-7)
• Taken to Egypt (Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:14-15)
• Herod´s killing of the infants (Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16-18)
• Anointed by the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:2; Matthew 3:16-17)
• Heralded by the messenger of the Lord (John the Baptist) (Isaiah 40:3-5; Malachi 3:1; Matthew 3:1-3)
• Would perform miracles (Isaiah 35:5-6; Matthew 9:35)
• Would preach good news (Isaiah 61:1; Luke 4:14-21)
• Would minister in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1; Matthew 4:12-16) Would cleanse the Temple (Malachi 3:1; Matthew 21:12-13)
• Would first present Himself as King 173,880 days from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25; Matthew 21:4-11)
• Would enter Jerusalem as a king on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9; Matthew 21:4-9)
• Would be rejected by Jews (Psalm 118:22; I Peter 2:7)
• Die a humiliating death (Psalm 22; Isaiah 53) involving:
  1. rejection (Isaiah 53:3; John 1:10-11; 7:5,48)
  2. betrayal by a friend (Psalm 41:9; Luke 22:3-4; John 13:18)
  3. sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12; Matthew 26:14-15)
  4. silence before His accusers (Isaiah 53:7; Matthew 27:12-14)
  5. being mocked (Psalm 22: 7-8; Matthew 27:31)
  6. beaten (Isaiah 52:14; Matthew 27:26)
  7. spit upon (Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 27:30)
  8. piercing His hands and feet (Psalm 22:16; Matthew 27:31)
  9. being crucified with thieves (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38)
  10. continued…

 

[twb1621]

continued from previous post…

1. praying for His persecutors (Isaiah 53:12; Luke 23:34)
2. piercing His side (Zechariah 12:10; John 19:34)
3. given gall and vinegar to drink (Psalm 69:21, Matthew 27:34, Luke 23:36)
4. no broken bones (Psalm 34:20; John 19:32-36)
5. buried in a rich man’s tomb (Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57-60)
6. casting lots for His garments (Psalm 22:18; John 19:23-24)
7. Would rise from the dead!! (Psalm 16:10; Mark 16:6; Acts 2:31)
8. Ascend into Heaven (Psalm 68:18; Acts 1:9)
9. Would sit down at the right hand of God (Psalm 110:1; Hebrews 1:3)

Messianic Prophecy is so powerful because of the statistical odds that one man would fulfill every single one of them. If we just analyze seven of the more specific prophecies in the Old Testament, that were later fulfilled in the Person of Jesus Christ, we are stunned by the statistical impossibility of such an historical reality.

 

[twb1621]

The Dead Sea Scrolls can be divided into two categories—biblical and non-biblical. Fragments of every book of the Old Testament (Hebrew canon) have been discovered, except for the book of Esther. Now identified among the scrolls are 19 fragments of Isaiah, 25 fragments of Deuteronomy and 30 fragments of the Psalms. The virtually intact Isaiah Scroll, which contains some of the most dramatic Messianic prophecy, is 1,000 years older than any previously known copy of Isaiah.

In addition to the biblical manuscripts, there are commentaries on the Hebrew canon, paraphrases that expand on the Torah, community standards and regulations, rules of war, non-canonical psalms, hymnals and sermons. Most of the texts are written in Hebrew and Aramaic, with a few in Greek.

The Dead Sea Scrolls appear to be the library of a Jewish sect, considered most likely the Essenes.They comprise the oldest group of Old Testament manuscripts ever found, dating back to 100–200 B.C. This is dramatic, because we now have absolute evidence that Messianic prophecies contained in today’s Old Testament (both Jewish and Christian) are the same Messianic prophecies that existed prior to the time Jesus walked on this earth.

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/dead-sea-scrolls.htm

The Dead Sea Scrolls have provided phenomenal evidence for the credibility of biblical scripture. Specifically, the nearly intact Great Isaiah Scroll is almost identical to the most recent manuscript version of the Masoretic text from the 900’s AD. (Scholars have discovered a handful of spelling and tense-oriented scribal errors, but nothing of significance.) In light of Isaiah’s rich Messianic prophecy, we thought it would be rewarding to reproduce a portion of the English translation of the actual Hebrew text found in the Great Isaiah Scroll.

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/dead-sea-scrolls-2.htm

 

[jake23]

**Do you know what is the meaning of the word “Christ” in Greek? Anointed of God. Now, read Habakkuk 3:13. It says in there that Israel, the People, is the Anointed of God. Therefore, the Christ of God. So, the Antichrist must be anyone who is anti-Jewish. Now, I ask, have I said anything that it is not in the Scriptures? How then do you explain your hostility? If you don’t have answers to my questions, don’t pick up my posts. You are wasting your time and the time of others. **

I have a college degree in biblical histroy unlike you. Christ means anointed one which Jesus is. Jews are simply the lowest of low and God showing humbling humility chose for his son (himself) to be born a jew (chosen as in God chose a jew to birth the anointed one). Yes I am wasting time talking to a deceitful fool however even fools can sometimes open there eyes! will you? The hostility is coming from you attacking God and his poeple! You are not of God and nor will you be until you except his son for it is only through him that you may enter the gates of heaven! Christ is the only Jew that should rightfuly be proud of himself.

 

[adrift]

**Are you possibly denying that the late magnanimous Pope John 23rd asked publicly from the Jewish People to forgive Christianity for this 2000 years old false accusation that the Jews killed Jesus? I have read it more than several times about this. I am going to check this out in the Library. What will you do with the source if I bring it to you, the same that you did with the reference book about the 4th Crusade? I don’t know if you deserve such a wasting of my time.

Moreover, let me remind you that the Pope said “to forgive Christianity” and not the gospel
writers. This only tells me that the Church had a heavy hand on this conspiracy. **

I am not denying anything. I just asked that you give a citation so I could read it for myself. What I have found did not match what you said. Jews did not kill Jesus. WE all killed Jesus with our sins. Who actually carried it out was the Romans at the instigation of the Jewish Leaders not the Jewish people. I don’t recall discussing the 4th Crusade with you.

 

[adrift]

**Would you please explain to me the contradiction? I gave you Matthew
5:19, and now I give you also Luke 16:28-31, where Jesus presents “Moses” or the Law as the only solution to avoid falling in the same condtion of the Richman in hell. How could the Jews ask the enemies of Israel to kill such a Jew?

As you can see, I give the proofs but you are not interested in them. In that case, explain the contradiction.**

I see no contradiction. You have misunderstood Jesus. I do not understand how you came to above conclusion. Jesus said that they didn’t believe Moses or the prophets, not law, and they wouldn’t believe EVEN if someone should rise from the dead.

 

[adrift]

Wow! Is that Adrift, the one who taught me about ad hominem? You are denying reality, Adrift. John was a Jewish man and he was never known as the Baptizer but the Immerser. The term “Baptism” originated with Paul and his Hellenist disciples. (Acts 19:5) John was not a Christian. There was one here today who said that even Jesus too was a Christian. Another, some days ago, that Jesus was a Catholic. What is this, a show of jokes? If Jesus and John were not Jews, it could be detrimental for Christianity and the Church.

1ad ho·mi·nem
2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made
It didn’t attack your character but what you said. Please document that he was ever known as the immerser.

 

[jake23]

Seriousely give up on the Donkey! He as we all well know is a uneducated fool maifesting BS for his persoanl amusement! Again this is an insecure nerd from Arizona that ran away to israel and is now submereged in idiotic propaganda! How about we turn our backs and no longer respond to the fool!

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Would you please explain to me what threat was Jesus to the Jews in the First Century, so that they would ask enemies occupiers of our Land to crucify him?

He was a threat to the High Priests because Jesus was speaking of change and was seen as a threat to the status quo of the HighPriests.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Ben Masada;5472651:

Yeah because you know paul personally! You use to hang out with him and know him to be a liar right? You sound more foolish everytime you talk! Give up the insecurities! If the Jews and the old law IS the only way then why do the Muslims own the place where the temple was? Why is there the dome of the rock? MY theory! a sign that youre poeple are vain and foolish for God sent down his only begotten son and all of you where not smart enough to recognize him! Sounds like stupidy is genitic! You sounds as foolish as a person who would claim the holocaust never existed! You are a disgrace to mankind! Grow up kid!

I never posted this.