The Married Couple Who Have BOTH Become Saints: Thousands Gather in Rome to Watch Pope Francis Canonize the Parents of St. Therese (With Many Quality
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graciew
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Thank you!
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Beautiful
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praying all day
Saints Louis and Zellie Martin pray for us!
Saints Louis and Zellie Martin pray for us!
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johnnyc176
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In a time when the family as put forth by God …
Saints Louis and Zellie Martin pray for us!
is under attack the Catholic Church makes saints of…a family.
Saints Louis and Zellie Martin pray for us!
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Joie_de_Vivre
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Has anyone noticed how rare married saints are?
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marymary1975
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So happy to hear that finally a married couple has been declared saints. Much needed.at this time when families are under attack.
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marymary1975
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Lay married saints who lived only a married vocation are pretty much Non existent. The onlyone iI can think is st. Gianna Molla. I a.actually very happy about this canonization because I think the church in the past focused too much on the religious vocation and not that much on marriage vocation. This is very much needed right now.
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Della
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That is due to the canonization process more than anything else. Before modern times it was difficult to get all the necessary witness statements, writings of the servant of God, get the process going, pay for all the expenses incurred, etc. Religious orders had better resources for all that whereas families generally didn’t
For example, if Therese of Lisieux, a Carmelite nun, hadn’t written her “Story of a Soul”, which led to her canonization, we’d probably never have heard of her parents.
In our day, though gathering evidence for canonization is an easier process due to rapid communications, and more names are being put forward that never would have before. It doesn’t mean that those overlooked aren’t saints. I’m sure there are many married couples who are, it’s that the process for recognizing them has become less difficult, so bishops can put forward names which can be looked into more easily.
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JimR-OCDS
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Actually, St Teresa of Lisieux had her sister Pauline, also a Discalced Carnelite Nun, along with her other sisters who were also nuns, to help advance her canonization process.That is due to the canonization process more than anything else. Before modern times it was difficult to get all the necessary witness statements, writings of the servant of God, get the process going, pay for all the expenses incurred, etc. Religious orders had better resources for all that whereas families generally didn’t
For example, if Therese of Lisieux, a Carmelite nun, hadn’t written her “Story of a Soul”, which led to her canonization, we’d probably never have heard of her parents.
In our day, though gathering evidence for canonization is an easier process due to rapid communications, and more names are being put forward that never would have before. It doesn’t mean that those overlooked aren’t saints. I’m sure there are many married couples who are, it’s that the process for recognizing them has become less difficult, so bishops can put forward names which can be looked into more easily.
The Story of a Soul was from various letters and memoirs Theresa wrote at various time to different people. Her sister Pauline kept the writings and put it into the book which was published in a limited amount the day after she died. St Teresa had no idea her writings would end up in a book.
I’m surprised it took so long for her parents to be canonized.
They were truly holy people.
Jim
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Della
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True, but Pauline was a Discalced Carmelite nun, not merely a family member. Hence, the Carmelites were instrumental in Therese’s canonization.
Because her writings were circulated among other Carmels, as was customary when one of the nuns died. Otherwise, we might never have heard of her or her family.
At the time there was a subtle prejudice against married couples because of some rather puritanicals feelings that sex negated sanctity, which is not and never has been Church teaching, but which influenced the canonization process nontheless. It has taken several generations to get past those prejudices, and in some quarters they still exist. So, it’s not really all that surprising to me, although it was definitely unnecessary to assume that a married couple not in a Josephite marriage, could truly be holy and not worldly.
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JimR-OCDS
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Della;
FYI, I’m a 3rd order Discalced Carmelite Secular, OCDS.
The only ones to see her writings were the people she wrote to, her sisters and the Mother Superior of the Convent in Lesieux.
St Theresa wasn’t made a doctor until 1997 and there are those who opposed it.
Jim
All Theresa’s sisters were Discalced Carmelites, except for Leonie. She was the last to enter religions life, becoming a nun in the Monastery of the Visitation at Caen.
FYI, I’m a 3rd order Discalced Carmelite Secular, OCDS.
Not until the book was published right after her death.
The only ones to see her writings were the people she wrote to, her sisters and the Mother Superior of the Convent in Lesieux.
Same was true with regards to women doctors of the Church. St Teresa of Avila wasn’t declared a doctor of the Church until 1970. St John of the Cross, whom she influenced, was made a doctor long before her.
St Theresa wasn’t made a doctor until 1997 and there are those who opposed it.
Jim
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Della
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Indeed. I have read quite a bit about it, as well, having been in the Lay Carmelites myself.
Her writings were passed to other Carmels. It was the custom to send something about the deceased Carmelite to other convents. Her writings, perhaps not complete, but her writings were sent to other Carmels, which led to them being read outside Carmel and on to her writings being published as “Story of a Soul.” It’s a complicated history, I know, but the point being that if Therese had not been a Carmelite her spirituality would most likely still be unknown, as well as her parents. However God had other plans.
True. But we digress a bit from the thread topic.
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Mystrx
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They were very good people. May they both pray for us all.
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marymary1975
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^^ this is what I was referring too. Back in the day there was prejudice as to married vocation and.Very holy people like st Theresa`s parents were.not canonized mostly because of this prejudice. There are many saints who had very holy parents and we hardly hear from.them. Iwish we would.hear more from.these parents who raised exemplary saints.At the time there was a subtle prejudice against married couples because of some rather puritanicals feelings that sex negated sanctity, which is not and never has been Church teaching, but which influenced the canonization process nontheless. It has taken several generations to get past those prejudices, and in some quarters they still exist. So, it’s not really all that surprising to me, although it was definitely unnecessary to assume that a married couple not in a Josephite marriage, could truly be holy and not worldly.
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JimR-OCDS
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OK, so I’ve seen it said that Louis and Zellie Martin are the first married couple to be canonized.
However, we’re forgetting St. Joachim & St. Anne, the parents of our Blessed Mother.
Jim
However, we’re forgetting St. Joachim & St. Anne, the parents of our Blessed Mother.
Jim
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Joie_de_Vivre
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I think we have gone to far towards too far in favor of marriage and have failed to give celibacy that which it is due.
firstthings.com/article/2015/04/dismantling-the-cross
And here I thought it wasTrue, but Pauline was a Discalced Carmelite nun, not merely a family member. Hence, the Carmelites were instrumental in Therese’s canonization.
Because her writings were circulated among other Carmels, as was customary when one of the nuns died. Otherwise, we might never have heard of her or her family.
At the time there was a subtle prejudice against married couples because of some rather puritanicals feelings that sex negated sanctity, which is not and never has been Church teaching, but which influenced the canonization process nontheless. It has taken several generations to get past those prejudices, and in some quarters they still exist. So, it’s not really all that surprising to me, although it was definitely unnecessary to assume that a married couple not in a Josephite marriage, could truly be holy and not worldly.
Council of Trent:
Were they canonized by the Church or presumed saints?
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JimR-OCDS
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OK, I was given the answer just today.
Louis and Zellie Martin were the first married couple with children, to be officially canonized through the Church’s canonization process.
The parents of our Blessed Mother, Anne and Joachim were as you put it, presumed saints.
Jim
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Della
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Joie de Vivre:
It’s the same today, merely because the Church teaches something is right or wrong doesn’t mean that even cardinals are going to want to conform to it. That’s human nature getting in the way. Happily for us, though, in matters of faith and morals the Church cannot and will not teach anything but the truth because of the promise of infallibility in those matters. This very fact is what keeps the Church from caving to the morals of the day, or lack of them, and keeps her from sliding into heresy.
And you will note I never wrote otherwise. Sadly, the official teachings of the Church can be overlooked or obscured by prejudice, the perceptions of man and/or or scrupulosity. For many marriage wasn’t as holy since married couples have to deal more with earthly matters. For many marital sex just can’t be holy since it’s “carnal.” Such misunderstandings and biases did color the canonization process for some.
It’s the same today, merely because the Church teaches something is right or wrong doesn’t mean that even cardinals are going to want to conform to it. That’s human nature getting in the way. Happily for us, though, in matters of faith and morals the Church cannot and will not teach anything but the truth because of the promise of infallibility in those matters. This very fact is what keeps the Church from caving to the morals of the day, or lack of them, and keeps her from sliding into heresy.
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JimG
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Louis and Zelie had before their marriage intended to join religious communities, but that was not to be. When they married, they lived a Josephite marriage for a number of months, thinking that was God’s will, although Zelie had a strong maternal instinct. They were convinced by a confessor that was not God’s will for them, and that their original desire for a religious vocation might be fulfilled in their children.
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marymary1975
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Indeed Jim! You are right! We are forgetting the Virgin`s parents!!
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