The Masons

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If Tubal Cain was a fallen angel (Nephilim), and he took Hiram into the fire, then I think readers should be able to read between the lines on what’s going on here.

Masons who are Catholic owe it to themselves and to others to investigate these things… We’re all obligated to educate ourselves if there is a possibility that were living in error. That goes for everyone.
 
The Masons (albeit at a very high level) have the knowledge and know-how to trigger the Tribulation which is why the Church does its utmost to discredit them.
I’d encourage you to become much more discerning about what you read. If you’re Catholic, I would suggest that you look for the “imprimatur” in the begining of your books.

I don’t expect to you take my word as a Mason that we won’t be able to trigger any Tribulation, but as a Christian, I will point out that only God has that power. No human could ever compel God against His will.

I will also point out that my lodge can barely balance it’s yearly budget - hardly the evidence of an all-powerful conspiracy.
 
I’d encourage you to become much more discerning about what you read. If you’re Catholic, I would suggest that you look for the “imprimatur” in the begining of your books.

I don’t expect to you take my word as a Mason that we won’t be able to trigger any Tribulation, but as a Christian, I will point out that only God has that power. No human could ever compel God against His will.

I will also point out that my lodge can barely balance it’s yearly budget - hardly the evidence of an all-powerful conspiracy.
I agree with this. I hope it is possible to hash out what can be shared and found on the subject without closing the door on the discussion using statements that would only discourage communication. The quickest way to do this is to tell someone what they believe. It’s like the presidential debates when the guys are sitting next to each other telling us what the other guy thinks.

For Catholics, we should all know the Eucharist miracle seems pretty far fetched to others.

Contrary to ess’ statement, I don’t think the Catholic Church will ever change it’s stance on the Masons as I think the Church with it’s knowledge base on the subject spanning the full age of the Masons is probably very deep and purposeful as opposed to mason history knowledge of a low level Mason today.

It is possible the lowest level stuff right now that handles setting up golf tourney’s and paying the electric bill is quite a ways away from the ‘historic’ masonic lodges lower duties.

The danger is in putting your loyalty into the Masons before Jesus and His Church.

This is what we see when a ‘Catholic’ is also a Mason. It’s not just a suggestion to not be a Mason.
 
Provided to me by my parish priest:

The Free Mason is a tough one due to the fact that Free Masonry as practiced in the U.S. is somewhat different than what is practiced in Europe. However it does continue to be a prohibited organization for Catholics. In the past we have stated that being a Free Mason bars a person from being a “minister” (liturgical ministry, catechetical ministry), but not from reception of the sacraments.
The reason is that the overwhelming majority of men and women involved in Free Masonry in Houston are engaged solely in the benevolent work of the Shriners and not in organizational leadership. It is at the leadership level that it really gets complicated (secrets, ritual, etc).
Since it is a prohibited organization, we feel that Free Masonry needs to bar the person from being able to minister in the name of the Church, but since the person does not have an intent to engage in practices contrary to the faith, they ought not be barred from sacramental reception. However we do not allow Free Masonry ritual or insignia to be used during funeral rites of the Church. If the Catholic is a member, Free Masonry rituals must be done either before the Vigil in the funeral home, or after the Rite of Burial is complete.

Cardinal Daniel Nicholas DiNardo
Archbishop of Galveston-Houston
 
I heard Masons in America spend about $800.00 a year on member dues… I wonder how much of that goes to to the leadership levels in Europe.

…especially considering that Masons mostly work for free. :o
 
I heard Masons in America spend about $800.00 a year on member dues… I wonder how much of that goes to to the leadership levels in Europe.

…especially considering that Masons mostly work for free. :o
If you are a member in the US then none of that goes to Europe and I spent a whopping $53/year. Ironically the same amount I pay for my Knights of Columbus dues annually.
 
Provided to me by my parish priest:

The Free Mason is a tough one due to the fact that Free Masonry as practiced in the U.S. is somewhat different than what is practiced in Europe. However it does continue to be a prohibited organization for Catholics. In the past we have stated that being a Free Mason bars a person from being a “minister” (liturgical ministry, catechetical ministry), but not from reception of the sacraments.
The reason is that the overwhelming majority of men and women involved in Free Masonry in Houston are engaged solely in the benevolent work of the Shriners and not in organizational leadership. It is at the leadership level that it really gets complicated (secrets, ritual, etc).
Since it is a prohibited organization, we feel that Free Masonry needs to bar the person from being able to minister in the name of the Church, but since the person does not have an intent to engage in practices contrary to the faith, they ought not be barred from sacramental reception. However we do not allow Free Masonry ritual or insignia to be used during funeral rites of the Church. If the Catholic is a member, Free Masonry rituals must be done either before the Vigil in the funeral home, or after the Rite of Burial is complete.

Cardinal Daniel Nicholas DiNardo
Archbishop of Galveston-Houston
Great contribution to the thread. Thanks for sharing.

I’m not much of a drama person, especially when it comes to rules, so when I see…

“However it does continue to be a prohibited organization for Catholics.”

He acknowledges the rule, where the story ends for a Catholic.

His further comments are interesting, but it’s just a way to allow someone who wants to break rules to not feel so guilty.

If the Church is first in one’s life, there isn’t a need to find a reason to feel less guilty about breaking a rule.
 
Great contribution to the thread. Thanks for sharing.

I’m not much of a drama person, especially when it comes to rules, so when I see…

“However it does continue to be a prohibited organization for Catholics.”

He acknowledges the rule, where the story ends for a Catholic.

His further comments are interesting, but it’s just a way to allow someone who wants to break rules to not feel so guilty.

If the Church is first in one’s life, there isn’t a need to find a reason to feel less guilty about breaking a rule.
I am prone to agree with you but it bears alot of weight coming from a prince of the Church. Not sure what the stimulus was for the statement but its a beautiful gesture. We welcome sinners all the time so why would Masons be excluded?
 
I am prone to agree with you but it bears alot of weight coming from a prince of the Church. Not sure what the stimulus was for the statement but its a beautiful gesture. We welcome sinners all the time so why would Masons be excluded?
While we welcome sinners to assist at Mass, we do not admit those in public, manifest, obstinate grave sin to receive the Eucharist. Canon 915 is clear and it binds the ministers of Holy Communion. Cardinal DiNoia has, in his wisdom, offered a sort of οἰκονομία in relaxing this rule.
 
While we welcome sinners to assist at Mass, we do not admit those in public, manifest, obstinate grave sin to receive the Eucharist. Canon 915 is clear and it binds the ministers of Holy Communion. Cardinal DiNoia has, in his wisdom, offered a sort of οἰκονομία in relaxing this rule.
I think its still a beautiful gesture that is rich in humanity and understanding.
Deeply welcome for those that it is directed towards. Very Christ-like in its intent.
 
I am prone to agree with you but it bears alot of weight coming from a prince of the Church. Not sure what the stimulus was for the statement but its a beautiful gesture. We welcome sinners all the time so why would Masons be excluded?
Sorry it’s been a while, kind of been crazy here.

I found your comment interesting about the trigger to the Bishop’s statement. I figured you had asked him directly.

I do have a question in light of the Church’s stance. Do you see that ‘being a Mason’ is a sin as it is a prohibited organization for Catholics?

I guess I’m trying to understand your viewpoint with your last line. Do you see Being a Mason as giving into a temptation similar to other sinful temptations?
 
Sorry it’s been a while, kind of been crazy here.

I found your comment interesting about the trigger to the Bishop’s statement. I figured you had asked him directly.

I do have a question in light of the Church’s stance. Do you see that ‘being a Mason’ is a sin as it is a prohibited organization for Catholics?

I guess I’m trying to understand your viewpoint with your last line. Do you see Being a Mason as giving into a temptation similar to other sinful temptations?
Been hectic here as well.
To answer your questions:

I do not view Freemasonry as a sin, and I do not include it in the temptation category either. I view the Ten Commandments as my rule and guide to my faith and practice without exception. I know that the majority of readers here will disagree with me, and I respect that, but I have never been tempted to do anything immoral, unethical, or illegal in a lodge. Every member that I have encountered has always been respectful of my faith. The fact that I make the sign of the cross when we finish a prayer has never been addressed or an issue. The fact that I sit with other Masons in mass has never caused me any distress or discomfort either.

Am I tempted with other sins daily in my life…Yes.
I joined the Freemasons because I saw a common thread of decency in the lives of people around me and a common (not complete) trait was that they were Masons. That was my personal opinion and my personal decision. I have become a better person as the result of my associations just as I have in the Knights of Columbus. I commented that the Church welcomes other sinners based on the recurring them that belonging to Freemasonry is a sin. I am not admitting that Freemasonry is sinful in design or principle but just wanted to ask the question that if it were a sin, why wouldnt we welcome Freemasons into the Church as well.

In my lodge we cannot truthfully decide whether we will have brisket or chicken for dinner before the meeting so I doubt we could mount a conspiracy to overthrow something as universal as the Holy Catholic Church. The average age of my lodge is 72 years of age. The vast majority of members use walkers so we wont be overthrowing any governments or Churches anytime soon.

Are we a secret group? If people know so much about us then we dont do a very good job of that either.
Do we have secrets? Yes. Primarily means of recognition between members.
Do we have violent oaths? Yes but we havent invoked the penalties ever that I am aware of.
Do we worship false gods and idols? No, we are free to pray to whomever we personally believe in without fail…
You have to be a higher degree to understand the “real” intent. I am pretty high up in several bodies and no conspiracies have ever been broached unless it was how to generate funds for the Dyslexia Learning Center we sponsor.

Personally I have sat in lodge with Jews, Muslims, Native Americans, and various churches of Christianity and the fact that we can all sit together in unity is a pretty amazing feat. One of the enabling factors is that we cannot discuss religion or politics in a lodge room so we dont bring disharmony into the room. I like that personally.

I know that there are disagreements concerning this topic and I am not the best person to speak on behalf of either the Church or Freemasonry. I am just trying to be a good person and surround myself with good people. Its that simple to me. I do a pretty good job and my family seems to be happy with the caliber of men I associate with. Thats how simple it is to me. I am sorry that I elaborated so freely with your questions but I hope I have answered them.
 
It just a social club for rich men to go and have lots of meals and religion and politics are left outside the door. No big deal in that is there apart from expensive meals especially if you’re the chair for the year:shrug:
It’s a self-interest group where members, in subtle (and someties not so subtle) ways give other members a ‘leg-up’ at the expense of non-members. Somehow I don’t recall Jesus saying, “You shall love your neighbour as yourself, but show particular favouritism towards your neighbour if he happens to be a freemason”. The very basis of showing favouritism in the workplace, business etc. to fellow freemasons is deeply un-Christian, and is a cancer that pervades our society right up to the very top levels. The use of the Bible in masonic rituals is blasphemy.
 
It’s a self-interest group where members, in subtle (and someties not so subtle) ways give other members a ‘leg-up’ at the expense of non-members. Somehow I don’t recall Jesus saying, “You shall love your neighbour as yourself, but show particular favouritism towards your neighbour if he happens to be a freemason”. The very basis of showing favouritism in the workplace, business etc. to fellow freemasons is deeply un-Christian, and is a cancer that pervades our society right up to the very top levels. The use of the Bible in masonic rituals is blasphemy.
Yes it is wrong. Giving someone a leg up has nothing to do with the teachings of Christ. In fact, it has nothing to do with the first commandment. Brotherly fraternal love has nothing to do with giving up your posessions and following Christ.

Freemasonry is nothing more than a stumbling block in attaining sainthood.

It is an occult. It revolves around conspiracy.
 
Thanks Ess,

It’s interesting. I guess now I’m curious, at what point does a Catholic who can’t claim ignorance to the church’s teaching on a subject, actually follow said teaching? This is why I see being in the group similar to any other temptation sin. We know the rules, and we break them anyway.

Above is an interesting point that we haven’t touched on much in this thread yet. That being one of the purposes to joining the group is for business favors.

Going through an interview process right now, I wonder if I have any competition from a mason, with hiring bosses being masons.
 
Thanks Ess,

It’s interesting. I guess now I’m curious, at what point does a Catholic who can’t claim ignorance to the church’s teaching on a subject, actually follow said teaching? This is why I see being in the group similar to any other temptation sin. We know the rules, and we break them anyway.
Being a Freemason is not just like breaking a simple rule, it is far more serious than that.

“Under canon 1374 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law, Catholics are forbidden to join societies that plot against the Church. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith applied this to Masons, indicating that Catholics who join Masonic organizations are engaged in serious sin and are to be banned from the Eucharist.”

So a Catholic who is a Freemason is forbidden from taking Holy Communion as a result of being in a state of mortal sin because of being a Freemason.

Is membership of the Freemasons and all the subtle material advantages it can give you worth being in a state of mortal sin?
 
Provided to me by my parish priest:

The Free Mason is a tough one due to the fact that Free Masonry as practiced in the U.S. is somewhat different than what is practiced in Europe. However it does continue to be a prohibited organization for Catholics. In the past we have stated that being a Free Mason bars a person from being a “minister” (liturgical ministry, catechetical ministry), but not from reception of the sacraments.
The reason is that the overwhelming majority of men and women involved in Free Masonry in Houston are engaged solely in the benevolent work of the Shriners and not in organizational leadership. It is at the leadership level that it really gets complicated (secrets, ritual, etc).
Since it is a prohibited organization, we feel that Free Masonry needs to bar the person from being able to minister in the name of the Church, but since the person does not have an intent to engage in practices contrary to the faith, they **ought not **be barred from sacramental reception. However we do not allow Free Masonry ritual or insignia to be used during funeral rites of the Church. If the Catholic is a member, Free Masonry rituals must be done either before the Vigil in the funeral home, or after the Rite of Burial is complete.

Cardinal Daniel Nicholas DiNardo
Archbishop of Galveston-Houston
As Christlike as the gesture may seem, the Bishop seems to be offering an opinion here -which is a far stretch from an invitation… See the underlined text above.

…the bottom line is, from how I understand it, that any Catholic Freemason, just like any other excommunicated Catholic, may not receive any sacraments until the excommunication is lifted.
 
Above is an interesting point that we haven’t touched on much in this thread yet. That being one of the purposes to joining the group is for business favors.

Going through an interview process right now, I wonder if I have any competition from a mason, with hiring bosses being masons.
In the UK, to become a Judge, you pretty much have to be a Mason… There was a law put into place at one point that forced judges to declare publicly if they were a Mason or not -that law was confronted by the Masons and the law was abolished.

m.guardiannews.com/politics/blog/2009/nov/05/jack-straw-judges-masons
 
Being a Freemason is not just like breaking a simple rule, it is far more serious than that.

“Under canon 1374 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law, Catholics are forbidden to join societies that plot against the Church. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith applied this to Masons, indicating that Catholics who join Masonic organizations are engaged in serious sin and are to be banned from the Eucharist.”

So a Catholic who is a Freemason is forbidden from taking Holy Communion as a result of being in a state of mortal sin because of being a Freemason.

Is membership of the Freemasons and all the subtle material advantages it can give you worth being in a state of mortal sin?
Parable of the rich fool comes to mind
 
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