The Masons

[benjohnson]

There’s also a danger, I feel, of some Catholics who see a Mason behind every shadow:

Here’s a good example:

scripturecatholic.com/feature-articles/Feature%20-%20Freemasons%20have%20Infiltrated%20the%20Knights%20of%20Columbus.pdf

It basically says the Masons have infiltrated the Knights of Columbus, and hold sway over EWTN.

There’s other stuff out there saying a few of the Popes were Masons.

This is not healthy or good, in my opinion - and I can tell you from personal experience, If the Masons are a conspiracy, it’s a horribly poorly run one that isn’t making any money.

 

[andrewstx]

Just for the absurdity:

On a more related note, what about the OA (Order of the Arrow)? Is it allowed?

The Order of the Arrow is associated with the boy scouts BSA, and not masonry.

You may be thinking of the Demolays (sp) they are teen aged boys associated with the Masons.

 

[andrewstx]

It just a social club for rich men to go and have lots of meals and religion and politics are left outside the door. No big deal in that is there apart from expensive meals especially if you’re the chair for the year:shrug:

Not in the USA. Here Masons are usually blue-collar workers. I think of Masonry as a place for non-liturgical Protestants (not the CofE) to get their “fix” of ritual that is missing in their churches.

My Grampa step was a Mason, when he died he was given a Masonic funeral.

 

[maltmom]

Not in the USA. Here Masons are usually blue-collar workers. I think of Masonry as a place for non-liturgical Protestants (not the CofE) to get their “fix” of ritual that is missing in their churches.

My Grampa step was a Mason, when he died he was given a Masonic funeral.

That’s an interesting thought. My Dad was brought up Lutheran although I don’t know if they went to church often. He became Presbyterian after marrying my Mom. He searched for God his whole life.

My Dad had a Masonic funeral. I can’t remember if he was buried with or without his apron. As a Eastern Star I was participated in an Easter Star funeral.

 

[andrewstx]

I did not attend my step grampas Masonic funeral. My step-dad did not think it approprpriate for young boys to go to funerals. But it was made clear to me that it was a masonic funeral.

 

[peace2u2]

Don’t worry, Mason’s don’t recruit. You have to initiate the conversation with a Mason, and you specifically have to ask without prompting.

Without belaboring your polemics, there are certain parts (most) of the Masonic ritual where you are an actor in a play. To take the blood oaths as serious is nuts, especially as a candidate in the ritual you are told beforehand that the blood oaths are emblematic of trust and certainly not literal.

Masons do recruit; a person I know was approached at a public place where they had developed just a familiar face type of a relationship and was asked to come meet some other men in the community and to join in fellowship and do charity work in the community.

From the websites that I provided in post #28 and here’s an extra article on both the oaths and rituals and funeral accounts:

saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/freemasonry

The articles detail the masonic funeral (which sounds awful) and the oaths they take even more awful sounding), to put a hood over your head and noose around your neck and to be walked about naked by a rope and a knife to your heart…like the article said, if you can’t do those things in the presence of your wife and children…

 

[benjohnson]

Masons do recruit; a person I know was approached at a public place where they had developed just a familiar face type of a relationship and was asked to come meet some other men in the community and to join in fellowship and do charity work in the community.

If that happened, it wasn’t at all proper. I hope the person that you know declined.

Here’s a Masonic funeral:

web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masons/Misc/funeral-svc.html

You should probably stay away from “Saints Alive” - Ed Decker has been known to not be a friend of the Catholic Church. From the wikipedia article about him.

“Ed Decker has also co-written a book with Ron Carlson called Fast facts on false teachings, which deals with what he believes to be various false systems of worship, including Roman Catholicism, Mormonism and the Word of Faith movement.”

 

[the_phoenix]

If that happened, it wasn’t at all proper. I hope the person that you know declined.

Here’s a Masonic funeral:

web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masons/Misc/funeral-svc.html

You should probably stay away from “Saints Alive” - Ed Decker has been known to not be a friend of the Catholic Church. From the wikipedia article about him.

“Ed Decker has also co-written a book with Ron Carlson called Fast facts on false teachings, which deals with what he believes to be various false systems of worship, including Roman Catholicism, Mormonism and the Word of Faith movement.”

My grandfather once told me he was recruited by the Masons … It was implied that if he joined, it would lead to a promotion for him at work. My grandfather declined the offer of joining the Masons … shortly afterwards, he discovered someone had let the air out of the tires of his car in the company parking lot. Coincidence or not. In any case, he joined the Knights of Columbus instead. As for the business world, he ended up doing quite well throughout his career.

As for Ed Decker, regardless of whether or not he is a friend of the Catholic Church, are his writings about the Masons true?

…

 

[benjohnson]

My grandfather once told me he was recruited by the Masons … It was implied that if he joined, it would lead to a promotion for him at work. My grandfather declined the offer of joining the Masons … shortly afterwards, he discovered someone had let the air out of the tires of his car in the company parking lot. Coincidence or not. In any case, he joined the Knights of Columbus instead. As for the business world, he ended up doing quite well throughout his career.

As for Ed Decker, regardless of whether or not he is a friend of the Catholic Church, are his writings about the Masons true?

…

I would say Ed Decker has done his research, but what he’s describing is not what 99.99% of American Masons encounter in their Lodge. Put it this way, if Masons were even 1% what he portrays them to be then he would have been killed a long time ago in some sort of gruesome fashion.

It would be as if I lumped all the worst things that have happened in the Catholic church - various slaughterers in the Crusades, Pope Leo X, the troubles with priests, and other assorted aliments and tried to portray the Catholic Church in it’s entirety as this. It’s a non-productive and silly argument. If I remember correctly, Ed’s anti-catholic writings are precisely of this sort.

Frankly, Ed Decker is a determent to persuading people to stay away from Masons - any rational person would immediately discount what he has to say. Because it’s nuts, even on the face of it.

If someone comes up to me and says, “Ben, I’m concerned that you’re spending time in Masons” I’ll listen.

If someone comes up to me and says, “Ben, Ed Decker says you Masons kill people!!! And you own the world!!! and I’m concerned that you’re spending time in Masons” , I’ll quickly walk away and discount them a a crazy kook.

 

[peace2u2]

I would say Ed Decker has done his research, but what he’s describing is not what 99.99% of American Masons encounter in their Lodge. Put it this way, if Masons were even 1% what he portrays them to be then he would have been killed a long time ago in some sort of gruesome fashion.

It would be as if I lumped all the worst things that have happened in the Catholic church - various slaughterers in the Crusades, Pope Leo X, the troubles with priests, and other assorted aliments and tried to portray the Catholic Church in it’s entirety as this. It’s a non-productive and silly argument. If I remember correctly, Ed’s anti-catholic writings are precisely of this sort.

Frankly, Ed Decker is a determent to persuading people to stay away from Masons - any rational person would immediately discount what he has to say. Because it’s nuts, even on the face of it.

If someone comes up to me and says, “Ben, I’m concerned that you’re spending time in Masons” I’ll listen.

If someone comes up to me and says, “Ben, Ed Decker says you Masons kill people!!! And you own the world!!! and I’m concerned that you’re spending time in Masons” , I’ll quickly walk away and discount them a a crazy kook.

Then what about what Christian Healing Ministries has to say about Freemasonry and the occult?

christianhealingmin.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=226:the-occult-sheet&catid=128:forms&Itemid=239

christianhealingmin.org/newsletter/archives/deliverance/A_Need_to_be_Free.php

 

[benjohnson]

Then what about what Christian Healing Ministries has to say about Freemasonry and the occult?

christianhealingmin.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=226:the-occult-sheet&catid=128:forms&Itemid=239

christianhealingmin.org/newsletter/archives/deliverance/A_Need_to_be_Free.php

I took a look at the first list - and the only think I see that I would be guilty of is being a Mason. There’s no spirituality or other nonsense in the Lodge. Frankly, if there is danger to Catholics from the Masons, it’s because we’re nearly as weird as these links indicate. We’re a lot more ‘normal’ and ‘decent’ - perhaps that’s the risk. No one would put up with crazy hocus pocus.

Here’s a fair critique by a Catholic ex-Mason who was interviewed by a Bishop:

scripturecatholic.com/feature-articles/Feature%20-%20Bishop%20Sheridan%20Interviews%20John%20Salza%20on%20Freemasonry.pdf

If you want to pull Catholics away from Masonry, I would recommend his books as they are sane and reverent.

 

[benjohnson]

IFrankly, if there is danger to Catholics from the Masons, it’s because we’re nearly as weird as these links indicate.

What I meant to say:

Frankly, if there is danger to Catholics from the Masons, it’s because we’re not nearly as weird as these links indicate.

Perhaps it was a Freudian slip of the tongue

 

[chequamegon]

Does the Catholic Church ban members from joining any other organizations, besides the Masons?

I know that Catholics aren’t supposed to join organizations that are anti-Catholic. But besides Freemasonry, does the Church specifically name any other organizations by name (as ones you can’t join?)

For example, the Ku Klux Klan is extremely anti-Catholic, and very outspoken about it, too. Does the Church specifically forbid Catholics from specifically becoming a member of the KKK?

To be clear, I have no personal interest in joining the KKK, or any similar anti-Catholic group. I’m just curious about this.

 

[Razanir]

The Order of the Arrow is associated with the boy scouts BSA, and not masonry.

You may be thinking of the Demolays (sp) they are teen aged boys associated with the Masons.

So… It’s morally neutral unlike the immoral Masons?

 

[andrewstx]

So… It’s morally neutral unlike the immoral Masons?

Yes, if you consider the Boy Scouts of America morally nuetral, I do.

 

[peace2u2]

Does the Catholic Church ban members from joining any other organizations, besides the Masons?

And, also, do any of the Protestant churches ban or at least look down upon their members from joining organizations like the Masons? If, according to the Catholic church, Freemasonry is in opposition to the gospel of Jesus Christ, then wouldn’t this apply to a person who is Protestant?

Why would being a Mason not be ok for a Catholic, but ok for a Protestant?

 

[Razanir]

And, also, do any of the Protestant churches ban or at least look down upon their members from joining organizations like the Masons? If, according to the Catholic church, Freemasonry is in opposition to the gospel of Jesus Christ, then wouldn’t this apply to a person who is Protestant?

Why would being a Mason not be ok for a Catholic, but ok for a Protestant?

Lack of unified doctrine? Technically it’s not spiritually healthy for anyone to be a Mason, but Protestants don’t tend to listen to the Pope

 

[JonNC]

And, also, do any of the Protestant churches ban or at least look down upon their members from joining organizations like the Masons? If, according to the Catholic church, Freemasonry is in opposition to the gospel of Jesus Christ, then wouldn’t this apply to a person who is Protestant?

Why would being a Mason not be ok for a Catholic, but ok for a Protestant?

See my post #4. The LCMS strongly discourages membership in freemasonry, etc.

Jon

 

[peace2u2]

Lack of unified doctrine? Technically it’s not spiritually healthy for anyone to be a Mason, but Protestants don’t tend to listen to the Pope

:thankyou: Thank you for answering!

 

[peace2u2]

Similarly, from an LCMS POV:
lilnet.org/Conservative.html

Jon

Thank you - interesting. :thankyou: