The mass and the flu

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Sola,
Thanks for repling, I understand what you are trying to say now.

Sola:

Fortunately at my church we do not have the Kiss of Peace, but we do offer one another the Sign of Peace - the handshake. It just changes by making things different for the sake of an external circumstance.

This is called the Kiss of Peace, in the USA the “Kiss of Peace” is usually done with a handshake.

 

[Sean_O_L]

Communion from the Chalice
Professor C K. Broughton writes:

The health implications of receiving Holy Communion from the chalice have been of concern to churches of several denominations. It would be virtually impossible to design a study to confirm beyond doubt the transmission of communicable diseases by the common use of the chalice. In this sense one could say that there is no evidence to indicate such disease transmission; this simply means that such evidence has never been obtained and, in fact, would be almost impossible to obtain.

What we do know is that a number of human pathogens can be present in saliva or on the lips and that such pathogens can be transmitted to others by means of fomites, that is, inanimate objects contaminated by such pathogens. Amongst such agents can be mentioned Herpes simplex virus types 1 and 2, Epstein Barr virus (the cause of glandular fever), secondary syphilis, chickenpox virus, various enteroviruses, hepatitis A, B and C viruses, HIV, the diptheria bacillus, haemolytic Streptococcus group A (the cause of acute tonsillitis and sometimes scarlet fever), Candida albicans (the cause of thrush), Mycobacterium tuberculosis, Mycrobacterium leprae, influenza virus, corona and rhino viruses (cause of the common cold), and there are others. The risk of contamination is not confined to the rim of the vessel: small amounts of saliva enter the interior of the vessel and mix with the sacramental wine. There results a soup of organisms.

The degree of transmissibility of each agent depends on many factors and obviously some are far more communicable than others eg, influenza and common cold viruses are highly communicable whereas it is unlikely, for instance, that HIV could be transmitted in this way; however, the dose of HIV organisms from a sufferer could be high if there were occult bleeding into the mouth itself as not infrequently occurs. The same remark applies to a number of other pathogens such as hepatitis B and C. Furthermore, wiping the rim of the Chalice does not sterilise and divine intervention cannot be invoked as a sterilant, despite the sanctity of the ceremony.

Fears are well founded, but as mentioned above, cannot be quantified. However our knowledge of microbiology and hygiene indicate that the common use of any drinking utensils is most unwise. There is legislation in the Public Health Act which forbids any catering establishment from reusing contaminated utensils. Most people would object strongly to a waiter providing them with unused unwashed wine glasses taken from and adjacent table immediately after customers had left.

Many churches have circumvented this problem by providing sacramental wine in a small individual glass to each communicant or of adopting the use of intincture whereby the wafer is first dipped in wine and then offered to the communicant. I would suggest that these alternatives should be seriously considered.

Vaucluse, NSW 2030

From: ***“Annals Australia,” * ** August 1996, pp. 8-9.

N.B. by Sean O L.: Catholics do NOT have the option of receiving from individual glasses.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Professor C K. Broughton:

. . .divine intervention cannot be invoked as a sterilant . .

Oh Ye of little faith. With God all things are possible. :yup:

 

[nancy3159]

It’s always someone else’s job to take responsibility…when I’m sick, I don’t shake hands, and I don’t drink from the cup.

If I’m going to catch something, let me count the ways…the holy water font, the door of the church, the pew, the hymnal, my kids, the grocery store I stop at after Mass (or the coffee shop), etc. So on a Sunday morning, did I catch the virus from the Eucharist or the Sign of Peace? or from somewhere else? Only my microbiologist/epidemiologist knows for sure. Or was it from one of the kids I took care of at work that weekend?

If you’re that worried, bring your Clorox wipes and your disposable gloves to church with you and wipe everything down.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Even if we were allowed to only receive in the hand during flu season we don’t know that the Eucharistic Ministers didn’t blow their noses or their kids’ noses without washing their hands. Their fingers touch the hands of those to whom they are giving communion, picking up germs and passing them along.

Personally, usually during flu season I refrain from taking the cup unless I’m the first one drinking from it.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[robertaf]

Pug:

I’m not sure if this is off topic or not, but your topic reminds me of a very Catholic friend of mine whom I do not understand. At one time she was undergoing chemotherapy for cancer and her immune system had been very weak, but she likes to say that she always still received from the chalice and she had faith that no germs would come to her from the chalice. I don’t understand this faith. I’d ask her, but it is a “point” with her and I don’t feel I could profitably ask her about it.

Does anyone here feel that they are protected from germs hurting them that might be clinging to the chalice? Could you explain?

Absolutely!!
I lost part of my lung to lung cancer this past March. I receive Jesus Precious Blood from the Chalice. How could I ever get sick from Jesus Precious Blood. I get HEALED this way!

Expain? Quite simple. IT IS THE VERY SAME JESUS THAT THE LADY WITH A HEMORAGE ONLY HAD TO TOUCH THE HEM OF HIS GARMENT TO BE HEALED!
This is not a different Jesus, He is the same, yesterday, today and forever. It is the living Christ.

I like to tell folks if they are really that worried about germs, I hope they sit in the front pew. Make sure you find out which one receives first.

 

[MeaCulpa]

Sean noting you are a new member, I thought you might not be aware of the following Forum Rules.

Messages should be short. Do not post lengthy replies (including replies that consist largely of quotes from an earlier message).
Do not paste articles from web sites into a post. If you wish to reference an article on the web, link to its web address, instead.

Do not post copyrighted material

.

 

[Pug]

Oh Robertaf, such a straightforward answer! I wish, oh, I don’t know, that an uncluttered mind came easier to me. I guess if I were walking next to Jesus in the very streets of Nazareth (or whichever city) I would not be worrried about getting some germs from his other followers.

 

[puzzleannie]

thann:

I
Is it irresponsible to continue to drink from the cup? Not in my opinion, and I am the one taking the risk.
'thann

it is a risk shared by everyone who partakes after you from that chalice if you have a contagious disease spread by droplet, such as flu. for this reason when all the coughing and hacking and nose-blowing starts I neither shake hands or drink from the chalice. for me flu is potentially deadly and I don’ t rely solely on the vaccine, I also take common sense precautions. I do this becaue I believe Aquinas’ explanation of transubstantiation, that the substance of the wine is changed into the precious blood, but the accidents of wine remain.

 

[Sean_O_L]

MeaCulpa wrote

Quote:

Messages should be short. Etc.

Hi MeaCulpa. Thanks for the advice.

1. “How long is a piece of string”? – or more pertinently, “how long is short”?
2. My post was not a part of an earlier message.
3. My post was not an article from a web site – it was a letter published in the over 100 continuous years in production “Annals Australasia”, one of the Editors of which was the highly esteemed Dr. Leslie Rumble, M.S.C.
4. The current Editor of “Annals”, Fr. Stenhouse, M.S.C. has given me permission to reproduce any “Annals” article; cf jloughnan.tripod.com/annals.htm

Robertaf wrote:

How could I ever get sick from Jesus Precious Blood. Etc.

Answer: One could not. However, one does have to understand that while the complete Jesus Christ (body, blood, soul and divinity) IS received under EITHER the form of the Bread or the Wine – He is received in a form which consists of “accidents.”

After the consecration, even though the “substance” of the host and wine changes, what’s important here is that all the “accidents” of bread and wine remain, including the way it is digested and metabolized as FOOD. Therefore its effects in the body are exactly the same as they would have been when it was simply bread and wine.

The Church recognizes some of the health problems, for example, in the cases of alcoholic priests and Celiac-Sprue sufferers. She allows alcoholic priests (who may be adversely effected by the alcoholic “accident” in the wine) to use *must * or *mustum * in lieu of wine.

Celiac-sprue sufferers are effected in some varying ways by the gluten “accident” contained in bread; for some sufferers – if they were to receive an ordinary host from the priest, they would be struck with diahorrea ON THE SPOT. That is why they are permitted to receive *low-gluten * hosts. For some - even these may contain too much gluten and they are obliged to receive under the form of wine.

Communion under both species and under one kind only has waxed and waned throughout history. One period where it waned was during the plague times. Unfortunately, disease is still with us to a very large degree. If you are comfortable with your choice TO receive under both kinds – then that is up to you. However, it does not represent Catholic Faith (one is not required to believe that one is Divinely protected from the “accidents” nor from diseases; rather it represents a naturalistic faith.

I am very glad that you, Robertaf, have not had any adverse effects.

I hope that this is not too long.