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TrueLight
Guest
I edited my post and added more.
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Suscipiat2011
Guest
Exactly. Prayer is different for everyone and it is a journey for each person. I try to let the Holy spirit guide my heart during Mass, if He wants me to contemplate something, then I will contemplate it. Sometimes people worry too much that their mind is wandering. They think if every thought isn’t something about Jesus when they are praying then they are failing. They are, for the most part, wrong. Prayer is sometimes contemplating your life, trying to figure out how you can do things better in the Divine Plan. Prayer is letting Jesus into your heart and letting him take care of you. Distractions happen, but sometimes you can use them for good.
It will get easier as you learn more about the Mass. Soon you will see what the Priest is doing, and know exactly what is going on, without having to check the Missal. It just akes time, and lots of prayer.
I wasn’t joking when I said prayer is hard!
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Suscipiat2011
Guest
I concede…
I just always thought that one of their many functions was to represent the people, like at the confiteor. Maybe I was wrong…
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TrueLight
Guest
I have a pretty good idea where we are in the mass most of time. However, it helps to hear the priest say “Kyrie Eleison” or “Gloria in Excelsis Deo” or “Santus”, which I don’t always hear in the low mass. In fact, I didn’t even hear the Pater Noster. Those auditory cues would help me in knowing where we are so that my head doesn’t have to be buried in the missal.Exactly. Prayer is different for everyone and it is a journey for each person. I try to let the Holy spirit guide my heart during Mass, if He wants me to contemplate something, then I will contemplate it. Sometimes people worry too much that their mind is wandering. They think if every thought isn’t something about Jesus when they are praying then they are failing. They are, for the most part, wrong. Prayer is sometimes contemplating your life, trying to figure out how you can do things better in the Divine Plan. Prayer is letting Jesus into your heart and letting him take care of you. Distractions happen, but sometimes you can use them for good.
It will get easier as you learn more about the Mass. Soon you will see what the Priest is doing, and know exactly what is going on, without having to check the Missal. It just akes time, and lots of prayer.
I wasn’t joking when I said prayer is hard!
I can pray fine alone. I guess if I go to a mass, I would expect to be able to unite my prayer with the priest and people and if I can’t hear a thing, then I might as well pray at home.
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Suscipiat2011
Guest
BigCat71, Remember that he is still just learning about Catholicism. He needs time to grow in the faith, just like we all do. He needs time to grow within the Mass, so that he can participate in it more fully.
This is something we all struggle with, and not one of us is perfect.
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Bigcat71
Guest
Hey look. You made a statement about the Low Mass must only be for long time Catholics. I made another observation. It seems as if you feel I was attacking you or implying that you were not committed to the faith. Nothing could be further from the truth. I find things difficult about the faith every day, but I don’t dwell on them. I accept them, try to learn from them and move on. I would not make a blanket statement about the Mass just because I was having some difficulty with some aspect of it.
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TrueLight
Guest
BigCat,
I haven’t eaten my Wheaties yet, so I can’t get into a fight with you. That is not the purpose of this thread. Thank you very much.
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Suscipiat2011
Guest
Yeah, like I said earlier, I think all of those should be audible to the most of the Church. Everywhere I go, they are, so I don’t know why the Priest you speak of does it this way. Sorry that I can’t help you more!I have a pretty good idea where we are in the mass most of time. However, it helps to hear the priest say “Kyrie Eleison” or “Gloria in Excelsis Deo” or “Santus”, which I don’t always hear in the low mass. In fact, I didn’t even hear the Pater Noster. Those auditory cues would help me in knowing where we are so that my head doesn’t have to be buried in the missal.
I can pray fine alone. I guess if I go to a mass, I would expect to be able to unite my prayer with the priest and people and if I can’t hear a thing, then I might as well pray at home.
And something else that I don’t think I made clear. If you prefer to go to High Mass, then by all means, go to High Mass, or Missa Cantata. :thumbsup:It is your choice. I would always choose Low Mass over Ordinary Form, but I understand what you are saying.
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MarkThompson
Guest
Ah, that’s a common misconception. As the Catholic Encyclopedia explains:I concede…
I just always thought that one of their many functions was to represent the people, like at the confiteor. Maybe I was wrong…
The psalm “Iudica me”, the Confession, and the other prayers said at the foot of the altar, are all part of the celebrant’s preparation, once said (with many other psalms and prayers) in the sacristy, as the “Præparatio ad Missam” in the Missal now is.
Both Confiteors, therefore, developed as private preparation of the clerics involved, outside the presence of the congregation altogether. The only reason the second one would be said by lay servers at all would be because they were filling in due to the paucity of clerics.
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Bigcat71
Guest
I am sorry for your experience. I have attended Low masses since the 1950’s, yes, long time Catholic, and I have never. not once been to a Mass where I could not hear anything at all. Not once. Try this, it worked when I first started out as an altar boy. We were told for several days to watch the Priest and watch what he did and what happened when he did it. After a few days, I knew pretty much what the Priest was doing and pretty much where he was in the Mass merely by seeing where he was, what his posture was and what he was doing. It might work.I have a pretty good idea where we are in the mass most of time. However, it helps to hear the priest say “Kyrie Eleison” or “Gloria in Excelsis Deo” or “Santus”, which I don’t always hear in the low mass. In fact, I didn’t even hear the Pater Noster. Those auditory cues would help me in knowing where we are so that my head doesn’t have to be buried in the missal.
I can pray fine alone. I guess if I go to a mass, I would expect to be able to unite my prayer with the priest and people and if I can’t hear a thing, then I might as well pray at home.
Oh and I don’t want to fight with you just because I disagree with you. Please accept that people may have opinions that you do not and may not agree with everything that you say.
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Suscipiat2011
Guest
Well, I learned something today!
And furthering that question: What about the confiteor right before Communion. I thought that one was seen as the Confiteor of the people. Am I wrong?
EDIT: I also learned what the word, “Paucity” meant.
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Carebear26
Guest
While I do like the high Masses with singing, I get frustrated if there is too much chanting. I attend Mass every Sunday with my mother who was born pre-Vatican II. She has a very hard time concentrating when there is so much singing and chanting. It really bothers her when there is no quiet time during the Mass as she feels she cannot really pray. I can normally just block it out and have no trouble praying but I am very sensitive to the difficulties my mother has. At my parish we have low Masses during the week but every single Mass on Sunday is a high Mass. I do enjoy a low Mass and wish at least one of the Masses on Sunday was a low Mass. Either way, I absolutely love going to Mass and I would attend either one at any time!
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TrueLight
Guest
I’m sure the Priests tries their best, but some are not able to project as well.
The only thing I heard for sure was the Dominus Vobiscum because then he is speaking outwards towards the congregation.
I also think the sound is projected more when sung because I can usually hear the Priest without a microphone in a missa cantata.
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TrueLight
Guest
The prayers at the foot of the altar is one of my favorite parts of the mass and I really feel as if we are uniting our prayers with the priests and servers.
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ProVobis
Guest
You weren’t necessarily wrong. When I was a server we were instructed to recite our responses loud enough to be heard by the first few rows to let them know that there is a dialogue going on, especially during the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar. In most EF’s today, very little is heard from the servers, so it’s hard for the congregation to feel that they are representing the congregation.I just always thought that one of their many functions was to represent the people, like at the confiteor. Maybe I was wrong…
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TrueLight
Guest
Wow. That is a very good point. I always have time to pray because I don’t go up for communion so I pray during that time. That is a very good reason to have a low mass, actually.
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Nowhere_Man
Guest
Do you attend the TLM? North American Martyrs in Ballard has a Sunday Low Mass during the Summer to give the choir a break.
North American Martyrs Catholic Church
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revert_jen
Guest
Well, it’s not a fun answer, but the only one I have is, “Practice.”
I originally (and to some extent still) had difficulties maintaining focus during Eucharistic Adoration. The more I did it, the less difficult it became. I mean, originally I would start looking at my watch after 15 minutes, and now it’s more like 50. I still have a ways to go.
So my suggestion would be to give it a better trial, having the attitude, “What does God want to happen at this Mass in my soul?” It won’t be all beer and skittles but you sound like a person who could deal with that if you were sure there were some point. The point is, Jesus’ sacrifice is the meaning and significance of the Mass, but that doesn’t mean that you cannot also sacrifice something there–time, comfort, whatever.
And if you try it out for a while and there isn’t any change for you (not even the benefit of making the “sacrifice of praise”), then don’t go. One of the great things about the Church is that there are a multitude of ways to pray, and different types of spirituality, all while remaining faithful to the Magisterium. If the Low Mass doesn’t give you some spiritual benefit, even after giving it a good trial, there is no rule that says you have to go to it (if we’re talking weekdays here). And it may be that until you are able to receive the Eucharist, it really isn’t for you. I don’t think there is any reason to worry about it.
Fear not!
–Jen
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ProVobis
Guest
I agree. But ironically enough, the choir usually drowns out those prayers at the Missa Cantata with the Introit chant, forcing a little multitasking on the part of the congregation.
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GloriousOrder
Guest
True Light, your anxiety over Low Mass speaks to a deeper problem in worship.
My evangelical Anglican friend says this is precisely what he finds to be wrong with “High Church” and “Papist” liturgy. Were his own intellectual worship-ideal to be carried out, the Mass would basically be the O.F. in vernacular and facing the people. He does not believe Catholics are “trained” to worship Christ in the liturgy unless it has pomp, circumstance, noise, incense, smells, bells, and melodrama. This epic inability to pray or concentrate, when lacking the grand things, is why he’s opposed to the Latin Mass as a universal ideal. It seems, to him, that the High Mass forces people to accept that the best/fullest expression of the liturgy must be loud, long, and dramatic; and, more, to believe that there’s something “lacking” in the Low Mass, atmosphere-wise. He points to the fact that the Last Supper, the basis of the whole liturgy, was probably devoid of music and was mostly quiet - though St. Luke records them as singing thanksgiving afterward.
“What if you want to have a whole experience of the Catholic Mass, with the fullness of the liturgy as they define it, in a poor African hut-mission that was just constructed? You will have no incense, bells, grand organs, or trained choirs. The Low Mass would make everyone bored to death and no one would convert to Christianity”. This is the problem you’re having. If you were a pagan in a mission country and the only Mass available was from an old priest who could no longer chant or sing, and there were no trained musicians or hymn-books, would you have converted to this grand imperial Church? To you, it might just have seemed a bland, quiet, and uninvolved set of words you couldn’t understand.
We must be able to love the Mass and be fully-aware in its lowest and quietest form. I don’t believe it’s possible for young, energetic, fire-eyed Catholics and converts to thrive on the pre-Vatican II Low Mass. There’s just so little to hold on to, and so many whispered prayers at the Canon that you’re often surprised when the just-consecrated Host is elevated.
You didn’t see Him coming because of the frigid silence, right? It seems very troublesome…
My evangelical Anglican friend says this is precisely what he finds to be wrong with “High Church” and “Papist” liturgy.
Were his own intellectual worship-ideal to be carried out, the Mass would basically be the O.F. in vernacular and facing the people. He does not believe Catholics are “trained” to worship Christ in the liturgy unless it has pomp, circumstance, noise, incense, smells, bells, and melodrama. This epic inability to pray or concentrate, when lacking the grand things, is why he’s opposed to the Latin Mass as a universal ideal. It seems, to him, that the High Mass forces people to accept that the best/fullest expression of the liturgy must be loud, long, and dramatic; and, more, to believe that there’s something “lacking” in the Low Mass, atmosphere-wise. He points to the fact that the Last Supper, the basis of the whole liturgy, was probably devoid of music and was mostly quiet - though St. Luke records them as singing thanksgiving afterward.“What if you want to have a whole experience of the Catholic Mass, with the fullness of the liturgy as they define it, in a poor African hut-mission that was just constructed? You will have no incense, bells, grand organs, or trained choirs. The Low Mass would make everyone bored to death and no one would convert to Christianity”. This is the problem you’re having. If you were a pagan in a mission country and the only Mass available was from an old priest who could no longer chant or sing, and there were no trained musicians or hymn-books, would you have converted to this grand imperial Church? To you, it might just have seemed a bland, quiet, and uninvolved set of words you couldn’t understand.
We must be able to love the Mass and be fully-aware in its lowest and quietest form. I don’t believe it’s possible for young, energetic, fire-eyed Catholics and converts to thrive on the pre-Vatican II Low Mass. There’s just so little to hold on to, and so many whispered prayers at the Canon that you’re often surprised when the just-consecrated Host is elevated.
You didn’t see Him coming because of the frigid silence, right? It seems very troublesome…- Status