The Mass is the Mass, but I Struggle with the Low Mass

[TrueLight]

If my presence is accidental, then why do I need to be there?

In Hungar of Memory, a memoir by Richard Rodriguez, he describes attending the EF as a child in the 1950’s. He stresses that the laity were involved in private prayer during the Mass; he remembers the jingling of his mother’s rosary and her whispered Spanish Hail Mary’s during Mass.

It makes sense that they would do that, because since they couldn’t hear a thing anyway, why not spend the time praying the Rosary? Is that a good thing? And I’m not saying praying the Rosary is not a good thing, but one can also pray it at home.

I think we need to come to an understanding of what is participation. I was thinking about this last Monday, when I went to a baseball game. I actually got to be out on the field to hold the flag during the National Anthem. After the National Anthem was over, we went back and had to disassemble the flag and put it away. Then we walked to our seats in the bleachers. By the time we got to our seats, it was the top of the third inning. (No scoring.) We were, however, listening to the game on the radio that was broadcasting the game at the stadium. As soon as we took our seats, I noticed that my friend looked seriously dehydrated. So, we immediately left and went to find water and some food, since we were all hungry. We ate our way overpriced food ($14 for a hamburger, fries and a drink!) and talked, keeping our eyes on the TV showing the game. Finally, after finishing our food, we went back and took our seats in time for the top of the seventh inning. Now, we were only sitting and watching the game for 3 innings, but does that mean that we were not participating in the experience of a Major League baseball game?

I don’t know. I feel that we should be extremely focused on the sacrifice of the mass.

 

[ProVobis]

He stresses that the laity were involved in private prayer during the Mass; he remembers the jingling of his mother’s rosary and her whispered Spanish Hail Mary’s during Mass.

Basically, I don’t think the laity did anything wrong. That’s the way they were taught. Monks and nuns wore large rosary beads around their waists and when they taught class they made sure everyone heard them. Some would even give you paper stars if you said a certain number of rosaries. So how could you go wrong by saying the rosary in church back then?

But that was then and this is now. While rosaries are important, the Mass should send a more powerful message.

 

[valient_Lucy]

If my presence is accidental, then why do I need to be there?

You don’t “need” to be there. The priest doesn’t need the laity to say Mass. You have to be there because the Church says you have to be there. It’s that simple.

It makes sense that they would do that, because since they couldn’t hear a thing anyway, why not spend the time praying the Rosary? Is that a good thing? And I’m not saying praying the Rosary is not a good thing, but one can also pray it at home.

We can also read the Missal at home, and pray.

I don’t know. I feel that we should be extremely focused on the sacrifice of the mass.

I’m just pointing out that that phrase doesn’t have an exact meaning. Was Richard Rodriguez’s mother really less focused on the Sacrifice of the Mass because she was praying the Rosary? Supposing she had decided at the beginning of the Mass to offer her rosary in union with the priest’s sacrifice. Isn’t that focusing on the Mass? Another poster said, that, during the Canon of the Mass, he offers the sacrifice for someone in particular, closes his Missal, and prays for and about that person. Is he not “extremely focused” on the Mass?

In the book The Stripping of the Altars, it describes the Mass in England (celebrated according to the Sarum rite). The focus of the Mass at that point, for the laity, was the elevation of the Host. It was commonly believed that, if the laity looked upon the Host, they would not die that day. In fact, in cathedrals, where several masses could be said at once at different side altars, they had to be careful to stagger the starting time of the masses. Often, the laity would stampede from one altar to the other at the ringing of the Sanctus bells, so they could see the elevation of the Host at the various altars. Were they not focused on the Sacrifice of the Mass because they were running around the church from one altar to the other, to view the Host?

I have no answers. All I’m saying is that “active participation” is a nebulous concept. **If we assume that “active participation” means “reading the Missal along with the priest” then we must assume that, for nearly 2000 years, the laity were never “actively participating” in the Mass. **

 

[valient_Lucy]

Basically, I don’t think the laity did anything wrong. That’s the way they were taught. Monks and nuns wore large rosary beads around their waists and when they taught class they made sure everyone heard them. Some would even give you paper stars if you said a certain number of rosaries. So how could you go wrong by saying the rosary in church back then?

But that was then and this is now. While rosaries are important, the Mass should send a more powerful message.

How does the laity praying the rosary during Mass diminish the message of the Mass?

Supposing his mother was offering her rosary in union with the sacrifice of the Mass. I think you can make a case that she was far more actively involved and focused on the Mass than a person madly flipping through the pages of a book.

I’m not saying that we should all pray the rosary during Mass. I’m just saying it’s almost impossible to declare one form of participation objectively superior to another.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I haven’t been able to confirm this, but I believe there was a movement to ban the production of Missals for the laity in the early 19th century. Some felt that it was inappropriate for the laity to read the prayers of the Mass, that they were only for the clergy.

Once again, I’m not saying no one should read the Missal during Mass. I’m simply pointing out that the idea of “focusing” or “active participating” are very vague concepts, and that our custom of reading the prayers during Mass out of a Missal is just that, a custom.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

I would say that you need to have a MUCH better understanding of the Mass, and what it really is.

Whether it is a “low Mass” or a “High Mass” really does not matter at all. A Mass is a Mass is a Mass.

You are saying that without certain ritual, you do not perceive this as a valid religious experience for you. That says a lot more about YOU than it does about the Mass.

You are caught up in the externals, and not in what is really important.

 

[TrueLight]

I would say that you need to have a MUCH better understanding of the Mass, and what it really is.

Whether it is a “low Mass” or a “High Mass” really does not matter at all. A Mass is a Mass is a Mass.

You are saying that without certain ritual, you do not perceive this as a valid religious experience for you. That says a lot more about YOU than it does about the Mass.

You are caught up in the externals, and not in what is really important.

I know. That is why I’m asking for help. Any suggestions?

 

[felsguy]

Oh, sorry, I hadn’t seen the request for a source. (I certainly didn’t paste anything from Tradition In Action, though!) Nor does that version bother to include the portion about Ignatius and Theresa.)

Ah, the perils of Googling. I too was interested in finding the source document, did a little Googling, and this was the first site that came up.

I am not at all familiar with that site but evidently you are, Mark, and from your comment I take it that it may leave something to be desired?

 

[TrueLight]

You don’t “need” to be there. The priest doesn’t need the laity to say Mass. You have to be there because the Church says you have to be there. It’s that simple.

I don’t believe it’s that simple.The Church has reasons for what it does.

I could not find any Church documents to quote, but I agree with Father Z when he says here:

True active participation is active receptivity to what Christ, the true Actor during Mass, wants to give us through Holy Church’s liturgical worship. Our baptism makes us capable of participating at Mass and then we engage our will and minds to follow carefully the words and gestures of the sacred action. This culminates in the perfect form of active participation, which brings the outward and physical and the inward and spiritual together: the reception of Holy Communion in the state of grace.

I know that the fault lies with me because somehow I have to be able to be truly present in the low mass. However, I don’t agree that it doesn’t matter if we are there or not, or that we should not be focused and participating silently.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I don’t believe it’s that simple.The Church has reasons for what it does.

I could not find any Church documents to quote, but I agree with Father Z when he says here:

My point is, as I said, that God doesn’t “need” you to be at Mass. God doesn’t need anything. He’s God.
The priest doesn’t need you to be at Mass either. He can say Mass without the laity present. If the entire congregation dropped dead at the beginning of the Mass, it wouldn’t affect the Mass in the slightest. The Mass would go on.
The laity does not contribute anything essential to the Mass.

I know that the fault lies with me because somehow I have to be able to be truly present in the low mass. However, I don’t agree that it doesn’t matter if we are there or not, or that we should not be focused and participating silently.

My point in the previous statement is, “What does it mean to be focused and participating silently?” If we say that means, “Reading the Missal along with the priest,” then we’re saying that St. Agnes, St. Agatha, St. Felicty, St. Perpetua, St. Lucy, St. Monica, St. Joan of Arc, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Elizabeth of Hungary, St. Elizabeth of Portugal, St. Margaret of Scotland, and St. Catherine of Sienna were never focused on the Mass and participating silently. Ever. Not once.

I don’t know the answer to that, and the reality is, I don’t think that any Catholic really has an answer to this question. In fact, I wonder if there is an answer to this question.

 

[TrueLight]

My point is, as I said, that God doesn’t “need” you to be at Mass. God doesn’t need anything. He’s God.
The priest doesn’t need you to be at Mass either. He can say Mass without the laity present. If the entire congregation dropped dead at the beginning of the Mass, it wouldn’t affect the Mass in the slightest. The Mass would go on.
The laity does not contribute anything essential to the Mass.

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think we should have the attitude that it doesn’t matter if we are there or not, except for the fact that the Church says we should be there. God doesn’t need anything, BUT as per the Baltimore Catechism:

1. Q. Why did God make you?
   A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in heaven.

We are serving him at mass by uniting our prayers with the priest.

Also,

Catechism 2nd Edition
1324 The Eucharist is “the source and summit of the Christian life.”[134] “The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.”[135]

1325 “The Eucharist is the efficacious sign and sublime cause of that communion in the divine life and that unity of the People of God by which the Church is kept in being. It is the culmination both of God’s action sanctifying the world in Christ and of the worship men offer to Christ and through him to the Father in the Holy Spirit.”[136]

1326 Finally, by the Eucharistic celebration we already unite ourselves with the heavenly liturgy and anticipate eternal life, when God will be all in all.[137]

1327 In brief, the Eucharist is the sum and summary of our faith: “Our way of thinking is attuned to the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn confirms our way of thinking.”[1

[/quote]

 

[valient_Lucy]

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think we should have the attitude that it doesn’t matter if we are there or not, except for the fact that the Church says we should be there. God doesn’t need anything, BUT as per the Baltimore Catechism:

I don’t dispute that.

We are serving him at mass by uniting our prayers with the priest.

True. But we don’t need a Missal in order to unite our prayers with the priest. That’s all I’m saying about that.

 

[Marie5890]

I’ve been to Masses where I wanted to leave:blush:

Me, too. I was so distracted by what was bothering me with the Mass, I found myself annoyed after Mass was over.

Took a lot of prayer to get over the attitude that had robbed myself of a time to spend with the Lord.

 

[TrueLight]

I don’t dispute that.

True. But we don’t need a Missal in order to unite our prayers with the priest. That’s all I’m saying about that.

Okay. Gotcha.

 

[TrentCath]

I know. That is why I’m asking for help. Any suggestions?

I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard of the book ‘The Holy Mass’ by Dom Prosper Gueranger? It’s a veritable treasture trove of information about the Mass, both explaining it’s various ‘parts’ and inspiring one to greater devotion. The reason I refer to it is that the author lists the various ‘aims’ of the mass and their importance which I will quote "*In the holy Eucharist there are three things for us to ever hold in view; First, the sacrifice whereby glory is given to God; secondly, the Sacrament which is the Food of our souls; thirdly, the possession of Our Lord personally in his Real Presence… *

Perhaps if you keep these things in mind, especially the first, you will be better able to assist at Mass? If I may I will point out that the author lists the Sacrifice as the most important event NOT receiving communion, perhaps focusing on this sacrificial aspect of the Mass will help if you are not receiving communion. Perhaps you might also wish to make an act of spiritual communion? To crudely paraphrase the Angelic doctor ‘the benefits of a sacrament can be received by desire..’ Information on how to do this can easily be found on the internet, though I suspect that the mere desire to receive communion and meditation on his passion and the sacrifice occuring would suffice.

Lastly I always find that it helps me to close my eyes for a few moments after lifting my eyes to the cross and imagine christ crucified, the immense pain he must have suffered, especially the moment the spear stuck into his side and of course his whole Passion. Perhaps doing this might make you able to focus on the true nature of the mass as opposed to the externals?

I will pray for you but I in return ask you to pray for me a fellow sinner

I hope that I have in some small way been of help?

 

[TrueLight]

I will pray for you but I in return ask you to pray for me a fellow sinner

I hope that I have in some small way been of help?

Thank you! Very helpful.

Also, I should say that since beginning this thread, I have attended 4 low masses, because I had no choice, and it’s getting better, although my mind tends to wander.

 

[TrentCath]

Thank you! Very helpful.

Also, I should say that since beginning this thread, I have attended 4 low masses, because I had no choice, and it’s getting better, although my mind tends to wander.

Was a pleasure to be of some help! And I’m glad it is, in the UK there’s only one missa cantate in the whole country so far as I know and then only every other week or so. So I’ve had to get used to it.

Also Just thought, if you have the time might be helpful to read ‘Divine mercy in the soul’ by St Maria Faustina and Devotion to the Sacred Heart by Fr John Croiset, SJ. They both completely changed my spiritual life especially in regards to Mass.

 

[TrueLight]

After attending about 4 low masses, I had the distinct pleasure today of attending a high mass. I arrived at the beginning of the sprinkling of the water during the “Asperges Me” and I felt myself relax and I sighed with joy. When not attending low masses, I have been attending missa cantatas so I haven’t heard the asperges me in ages.

Also, there was a nice choir and the congregation alternated with the choir in the Kyrie… (yay) and for the first time, I got to listen to Credo IV!

I am very happy today.

 

[MissRose73]

I am glad you got to finally experience the High Mass. Someday, I will get to go to one as the closest ones are 2 hours away at least.

Til then, I will be content with the times I am able to go to Low Masses at a few churches about 1.5 hours from me.

 

[TrueLight]

I am glad you got to finally experience the High Mass. Someday, I will get to go to one as the closest ones are 2 hours away at least.

Til then, I will be content with the times I am able to go to Low Masses at a few churches about 1.5 hours from me.

No, I’ve experienced it before. I was just saying my normal fare is the missa cantata. I am new to the low mass, which I am going to attend today by the way.