The Masturbation Journal. Continued. Again.

[stringbeanduck]

Too much appears to be very little indeed according to the American Cancer Society:

How much smoking is too much?

As little as 1 to 4 cigarettes a day. This is quite different than, say, red wine where a glass a day has been shown to have health benefits.

“Temperance” doesn’t really apply to smoking. Any marginal health benefits from smoking for certain specific conditions will be overwhelmed by the negative impact of smoking, statistically:

Some 30 times as many lives are lost due to smoking than saved through lowered incidence of endometrial cancer.

Again I’m not here to agrue how good or bad smoking is.Temperance does apply tobacco and it can be used in moderation. Tobacco in it’s self is good. Now I’ve already explained what the church teaches on this issue. If you have a problem with, go seek a wise Priest and educate your self on it. If you wish to disagree with the Church and remain in error that’s fine too.

 

[OraLabora]

Again I’m not here to agrue how good or bad smoking is.Temperance does apply tobacco and it can be used in moderation. Tobacco in it’s self is good. Now I’ve already explained what the church teaches on this issue. If you have a problem with, go seek a wise Priest and educate your self on it. If you wish to disagree with the Church and remain in error that’s fine too.

If it makes you feel any better I will say that smoking itself is not sinful.

But willfully engaging in a self-destructive behaviour is. Imposing smoke on non-smokers is a form of bodily assault and assault without cause is sin.

As we have learned more about smoking we have learned that the amount one needs to smoke to increase health risks is very small.

The vast majority of smokers consume more than 1 to 4 cigarettes a day. Therefore they are engaging in self-destructive behaviour which is sinful.

 

[adam_weiss]

Really? The claim is that masturbation is wrong because it does not have any purpose and misuses the faculty of procreation; an individual doesn’t need to masturbate to live, and moreover, it is an addictive behavior.

So let’s compare smoking and masturbation:

Smoking: unlike eating, you don’t need to smoke to live. Smoking fulfills no individual life need. It misuses the breathing faculty.
Masturbation: unlike eating, you don’t need to smoke to live. Masturbation fulfills no individual life need. It misuses the natural procreative faculty.

Smoking: can lead to an addiction that’s tough to kick, damages your health, and can affect your human relations.
Masturbation: can lead to an addiction that’s tough to kick, and can affect your human relations (but can’t directly damage physical health)

ISTM that in Natural Law, smoking is unnatural; does not fulfill a basic human need, is damaging to health, is addictive, misuses a faculty (breathing) and moreover can even affect the health of others around us (second hand smoke).

I’d say the evidence against smoking is even more damning than against masturbation.

I must say much of your logic here is faulty my freind. although masturbation doesn’t have as clear of physical symptoms as tobacco does it still does have effects including on occasion: rahes and burns on the organ that can result in infections possible impotency later in life… and smoking is less of an evil than masturbation in the fact that masturbation takes a god given act of charity and twists and perverts it into an evil that is selfish and which can twist a persons world veiw into lustful thoughts of others and degradation of the opposit sex to mere objects! also if you wish to compare how adictive masturbation is in against smoking you must consider that many studies have found that the only things close to the adictiveness of masturbation are crack-cocain and meth! and in masturbation you can’t simply remove the problem! unless of course you handcuff yourself to a chair or ware a pad locked chastity belt that is so you must tough your way through it! And smoking introduces a chemicalinto the body which it dosn’t generally make large quantities of so can there by get by without while masturbation causes a mass release of the feelgood chemicals the brain normaly makes and can’t simply live without, so when there is a build up of said chemicals the body will always want a release. And just to note I’m not for smoking I vehemently hate the practice!

 

[OraLabora]

I must say much of your logic here is faulty my freind. although masturbation doesn’t have as clear of physical symptoms as tobacco does it still does have effects including on occasion: rahes and burns on the organ that can result in infections possible impotency later in life… and smoking is less of an evil than masturbation in the fact that masturbation takes a god given act of charity and twists and perverts it into an evil that is selfish and which can twist a persons world veiw into lustful thoughts of others and degradation of the opposit sex to mere objects! also if you wish to compare how adictive masturbation is in against smoking you must consider that many studies have found that the only things close to the adictiveness of masturbation are crack-cocain and meth! and in masturbation you can’t simply remove the problem! unless of course you handcuff yourself to a chair or ware a pad locked chastity belt that is so you must tough your way through it! And smoking introduces a chemicalinto the body which it dosn’t generally make large quantities of so can there by get by without while masturbation causes a mass release of the feelgood chemicals the brain normaly makes and can’t simply live without, so when there is a build up of said chemicals the body will always want a release. And just to note I’m not for smoking I vehemently hate the practice!

I am not defending masturbation.

I am condemning smoking. I am saying that physically, smoking is worse than masturbation. Morally, we can quibble on which is worse; suffices to say that masturbation is a grave sin, which I am not denying but I do take exception with a large number of people who seem to think that “grave” is synonymous with “mortal”. If as you say it’s as addictive as crack cocaine, I would then hope you would say that the vast majority of people who masturbate are not committing mortal sin, they are simply addicts.

If “smoking” as such isn’t a grave sin, then intemperance in smoking certainly is, and the science seems to set the threshold at which it falls into intemperance at a very low level.

You did mention a few rare complications that would arise from truly excessive masturbation. I would argue that these are much more infrequent than the effects of smoking.

I do find some incongruity in Church teaching that would condemn one, and not the other.

I do tend to lack objectivity over smoking. I lost my beloved father at a very young age because of it.

 

[Kevroy]

Fr. Ripperger is professor of Dogmatic and Moral Theology and Philosophy at Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Denton, Nebraska. He says in one of his talks that smoking is not evil, and to think that it is evil is an error, and to persist in that error is a sin. He lists several of the health benefits of smoking; it helps to treat schizophrenia, ulcerative colitis, turrets syndrome, and several other diseases.

 

[stringbeanduck]

If it makes you feel any better I will say that smoking itself is not sinful.

But willfully engaging in a self-destructive behaviour is. Imposing smoke on non-smokers is a form of bodily assault and assault without cause is sin.

As we have learned more about smoking we have learned that the amount one needs to smoke to increase health risks is very small.

The vast majority of smokers consume more than 1 to 4 cigarettes a day. Therefore they are engaging in self-destructive behaviour which is sinful.

There. Was that so hard?

Only a Priest and the smoker can determine if the smoker is smoking in excess. Simply exceeding a certain number of cigs per day does not make one in sin. One man’s logic doesn’t apply to everyone I’m afraid.

As for the ‘assaulting a person with smoke’ argument, that’s a different issue not part of the OP. I will say that both should pray the Our Father and learn to live peacefully.

 

[tjm190]

That part isn’t correct. Smoking in accodance to temperance okay provided it is done to merit something positive. Thus although pleasure is source that comes of smoking it should not just the only factor for which a person smokes.

Ah, so what benefits are gained from smoking? Would you admit that putting others at risk is sinful (aka smoking in public)?

 

[stringbeanduck]

Ah, so what benefits are gained from smoking? Would you admit that putting others at risk is sinful (aka smoking in public)?

That’s a topic for another thread. OP wanted to know how it is not a mortal sin and that question was anwered… more than once.

 

[tjm190]

That’s a topic for another thread. OP wanted to know how it is not a mortal sin and that question was anwered… more than once.

I presented a case for smoking being a grave misuse of the breathing function. You took issue with that case. I sought an explanation. Your explanation is relatively key in the discernment of smoking’s sinfulness for our purposes- I’d say it’s quite relevant.

EDIT- even if these benefits exist, would you admit that someone doing so just for the sake of personal pleasure (including psychological) would be abusing themselves?

Whether or not is a sin to put other’s at risk via smoking is also pertinent to its sinfulness.

 

[tjm190]

also if you wish to compare how adictive masturbation is in against smoking you must consider that many studies have found that the only things close to the adictiveness of masturbation are crack-cocain and meth!

google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=addictiveness+of+masturbation+study&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Where are these studies and why can’t google find them?

 

[tjm190]

If you wish to disagree with the Church and remain in error that’s fine too.

Arrogance- wins every time.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I presented a case for smoking being a** grave misuse **of the breathing function. You took issue with that case. I sought an explanation. Your explanation is relatively key in the discernment of smoking’s sinfulness for our purposes- I’d say it’s quite relevant.

EDIT- even if these benefits exist, would you admit that someone doing so just for the sake of personal pleasure (including psychological) would be abusing themselves?

Whether or not is a sin to put other’s at risk via smoking is also pertinent to its sinfulness.

Grave misuse is part of mortal sin which was part of what the OP wanted to know. Therefore I answered it if you’re refering to post 16.

Once again, the question given by the OP had to deal with whether or not smoking is mortal sin. Not specific smoking senerios. The moral issue of smoking around other people(a certain smoking senerio) is a different topic than what was asked to be addressed in the OP.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Arrogance- wins every time.

If striving to be a faithful Catholic makes me arrogant according to you so be it.

 

[tjm190]

Grave misuse is part of mortal sin which was part of what the OP wanted to know. Therefore I answered it if you’re refering to post 16.

A tad confused- when did we establish that smoking was not a grave misuse of breathing? Your post doesn’t seem to make much sense, although it’s far too late for me to expect my brain to be in full gear so I’ll give it another look upon my awakening.

Once again, the question given by the OP had to deal with whether or not smoking is mortal sin. Not specific smoking senerios. The moral issue of smoking around other people(a certain smoking senerio) is a different topic than what was asked to be addressed in the OP.

Agreed.

 

[tjm190]

If striving to be a faithful Catholic makes me arrogant according to you so be it.

Presuming your correctness (or in this case, the incorrectness of those who disagree with you) is a big part of being arrogant by anyone’s definition.