The Meaning of Bodily Resurrection

[JMJ_coder]

**Would a Jewish answer help you why? We obey God’s Law because it is a Jewish thing to do so. No need of afterlife, or resurrection or Heavens. **

Not historically it isn’t. The entire history of Israel (as recorded in the Old Testament) is one of idolatry, stubbornness (being stiff-necked), sinfulness, being called back by God through a prophet (if the Jews didn’t kill them), and then sliding back into idolatry, stubbornness, sinfulness, etc.

There is no need of afterlife to “set things right with God through repentance, restoration and obedience.” (Isa. 1:18,19) That’s what life here and now is all about. God’s justice has nothing to do with our suffering as a result of the law of cause and effect.

Sitting in sackclothe and ashes or having a party – self-denial or luxury – if either option has the same net eschatological effect (which it does if there is no afterlife), then which would most people choose? And what kind of a god would create only to have that creation suffer without any hope of future joy or happiness. Sounds like your Greek mythology full of vengeful, uncompassionate, love to see mankind suffer, petty gods is clouding your revision of Judaism.

**They went to the grave, just like any other mortal. Those are metaphorical expressions about Enoch and Elijah to enhance the importance of those two men. **

Sure. All metaphors. I’m surprised you don’t think God is a mere metaphor.

**Jews don’t believe in physical resurrection. The resurrection we believe is the one from Ezekiel 37:12. Physical resurrection is a contradiction to the Scriptures. **

What’s coming out of the graves and sepulchres if not bodies? Let me guess – another metaphor. The Saduccess didn’t believe in the resurrection of the dead (for which Christ corrected them – Matthew 22) - but the Pharisees did (which is one issue that divided them).

Judaism evolves with mental evolution. Not that the Scriptures have changed; but that we have learned to interpret it with enlightenment. When it says in Genesis, “Grow and multiply,” it does not mean only in population but also in the intellect.

What a stinking load of <-expletive->!

I sure glad I know that what you spout here isn’t reflective of true Judaism.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I’m sorry, but I just think you are very biased toward Judaism (and rightly so, since you are a Jew), but this stuff doesn’t work for me. Because I believe Christ was the Messiah and he changed all the stuff in the Old Testament, by becoming the sacrificial lamb and dying for the sins of mankind. He IS the Truth and the Light and the Way.

**I do not agree with you that I am biased even if you understand for my being Jewish. The biased one here is the Prophet Jeremiah. I am only quoting one of his prophecies…

So, you do believe that Jesus changed the Hebrew Scriptures. In that case, who is lying in Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus or Matthew? Because Jesus made it very clear that he did not come to change anything whatsoever in the Scriptures, but to confirm them down to the letter.

And regarding the Messiah, do you believe that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah? If you read Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4, you will see that Isaiah identifies that Servant with Israel by name, so that you won’t have to assume that he was Jesus.

When Jesus said that he was the Truth, the light and the way, he was speaking on behalf of the People he belonged to. He knew from Isaiah 42:6 that Israel had been given as light unto the Gentiles.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

Not historically it isn’t. The entire history of Israel (as recorded in the Old Testament) is one of idolatry, stubbornness (being stiff-necked), sinfulness, being called back by God through a prophet (if the Jews didn’t kill them), and then sliding back into idolatry, stubbornness, sinfulness, etc.

The Jewish People never killed a single Prophet. If Ahab or Jezabell killed some of our Porphets, it doesn’t mean the Jewish People killed the Prophets. As I can see, you are too ready with your false accusations agranst the Jews as a People. Then, you guys get upset when I charge you with Antisemitism.

Sitting in sackclothe and ashes or having a party – self-denial or luxury – if either option has the same net eschatological effect (which it does if there is no afterlife), then which would most people choose? And what kind of a god would create only to have that creation suffer without any hope of future joy or happiness. Sounds like your Greek mythology full of vengeful, uncompassionate, love to see mankind suffer, petty gods is clouding your revision of Judaism.

God has nothing to do with our sufferings. We are the only ones to blame for our misfortunes. It all comes to us as a result of bad use of our freewill.

Sure. All metaphors. I’m surprised you don’t think God is a mere metaphor.

It depends where you read about Him in the Scriptures.

What’s coming out of the graves and sepulchres if not bodies? Let me guess – another metaphor. The Saduccess didn’t believe in the resurrection of the dead (for which Christ corrected them – Matthew 22) - but the Pharisees did (which is one issue that divided them).

**Nobody ever returns from the grave. It would be a contradiction to the Scriptures. Jesus never corrected the Sadduccees for not believing in physical resurrection. Jesus himself didn’t. The whole idea is Hellenistic right out of the mind of Paul, who was Greek. The Pharisees didn’t believe in physical resurrection either. The resurrection they believed is the one we still do, accorlding to Ezekiel 37:12. **

 

[JMJ_coder]

The Jewish People never killed a single Prophet. If Ahab or Jezabell killed some of our Porphets, it doesn’t mean the Jewish People killed the Prophets. As I can see, you are too ready with your false accusations agranst the Jews as a People. Then, you guys get upset when I charge you with Antisemitism.

But they [the Jewish people] mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused the prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, and there was no remedy. (2 Chronicles 36:16)
I was going to quote from the New Testament, but I figured that would probably be in the 80% you claim not to believe in. Hopefully this isn’t part of the Old Testament you don’t believe in or consider metaphorical.

Also, it isn’t anti-Semitism to point out that the Jews aren’t the golden-child of humanity. Just because we claim Jews aren’t perfect doesn’t mean we’re persecuting you.

God has nothing to do with our sufferings. We are the only ones to blame for our misfortunes. It all comes to us as a result of bad use of our freewill.

I didn’t say God was the source of our suffering. I just pointed out where your erroneous ideas lead – to a generally pagan mythological worldview.

It depends where you read about Him in the Scriptures.

I’m sure all the Jewish world is indebted to your “enlightened” interpretations to show them how they’ve been wrong all these thousands of years.

**Nobody ever returns from the grave. It would be a contradiction to the Scriptures. Jesus never corrected the Sadduccees for not believing in physical resurrection. Jesus himself didn’t. The whole idea is Hellenistic right out of the mind of Paul, who was Greek. The Pharisees didn’t believe in physical resurrection either. The resurrection they believed is the one we still do, accorlding to Ezekiel 37:12. **

Whatever. I’m still not certain whether you know less about Judaism or Christianity. Either way, you know very little about either.

P.S. – what’s with the annoying large blue bold text?

 

[Ben_Masada]

**

But they [the Jewish people] mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused the prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, and there was no remedy. (2 Chronicles 36:16)

**There is always remedy in God for Israel. He knows the world would not survive without Israel. No wonder of the other nations God will eventually make an end of them. But of Israel, He will only chastise as we deserve. (Jer. 46:28) ****

Also, it isn’t anti-Semitism to point out that the Jews aren’t the golden-child of humanity. Just because we claim Jews aren’t perfect doesn’t mean we’re persecuting you.

You are right; that’s not Antisemitism; just denial of Reality.

I didn’t say God was the source of our suffering. I just pointed out where your erroneous ideas lead – to a generally pagan mythological worldview.

Judaism of all religions with pagan Mythology! This is hardly our trademark. We are not the ones who have brought to the world the idea of God making Himself flesh in a virgin without a human father.

I’m sure all the Jewish world is indebted to your “enlightened” interpretations to show them how they’ve been wrong all these thousands of years.

They haven’t been wrong. You don’t hear about these things from another Jew, because they don’t like to chit-chatting with Gentiles about their Faith. That’s only how they are wrong, because as Isaiah says in 42:6, We have been given as light unto the nations.

Whatever. I’m still not certain whether you know less about Judaism or Christianity. Either way, you know very little about either.

Is this coming from your heart or just from your lips? It sounds too superficial to me.

P.S. – what’s with the annoying large blue bold text?

Sorry, I thought you liked. Perhaps I need to see better what I have typed. How about this, better for you?
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[CHRISTINE77]

**I do not agree with you that I am biased even if you understand for my being Jewish. The biased one here is the Prophet Jeremiah. I am only quoting one of his prophecies…

So, you do believe that Jesus changed the Hebrew Scriptures. In that case, who is lying in Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus or Matthew? Because Jesus made it very clear that he did not come to change anything whatsoever in the Scriptures, but to confirm them down to the letter.

And regarding the Messiah, do you believe that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah? If you read Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4, you will see that Isaiah identifies that Servant with Israel by name, so that you won’t have to assume that he was Jesus.

When Jesus said that he was the Truth, the light and the way, he was speaking on behalf of the People he belonged to. He knew from Isaiah 42:6 that Israel had been given as light unto the Gentiles.**

I’m not quite sure I what you are saying. Are you saying that the Gentiles should be practicing Judaism instead of Christianity?

Also, what is your beef with Paul? You seem to blame him for the formation of Christianity. Yet Paul was a Jew who was changed when he “saw the light”. I say he saw the truth of Jesus and preached it to the Gentiles. What motive would he have other than his own belief in the Christ?

 

[Ben_Masada]

I’m not quite sure I what you are saying. Are you saying that the Gentiles should be practicing Judaism instead of Christianity?

Also, what is your beef with Paul? You seem to blame him for the formation of Christianity. Yet Paul was a Jew who was changed when he “saw the light”. I say he saw the truth of Jesus and preached it to the Gentiles. What motive would he have other than his own belief in the Christ?

**No, I am not saying that the Gentiles should be practicing Judaism instead of Christianity. They have their own Noahite laws. What I am trying is to defend the image of Judaism that Christians distort by using a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it.

About Paul being the founder of Chistianity is another problem similar to the first one. You claim that Jesus founded the Church and that’s not true. It was with Paul that Christians started and that’s not my saying but Luke’s. Read Acts 11:26.

And rather than being changed when he saw the light, Paul was changed when he left the light. The truth of Jesus was Judaism. That’s the light Paul left when he changed.

And you say that he preached it to the Gentiles. Can you tell me when he finally decided to go to the Gentiles, because 98 percent of his missionary activities were among the Jews. Two percent of missionary work with the Gentiles can hardly classify one as an apostle to the Gentiles.

I have no problem with his belief in his Christ, as long as he didn’t pick an observant Jew to impersonate his Christ with, which was what he did with Jesus.**

 

[CHRISTINE77]

**No, I am not saying that the Gentiles should be practicing Judaism instead of Christianity. They have their own Noahite laws. What I am trying is to defend the image of Judaism that Christians distort by using a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it.

About Paul being the founder of Chistianity is another problem similar to the first one. You claim that Jesus founded the Church and that’s not true. It was with Paul that Christians started and that’s not my saying but Luke’s. Read Acts 11:26.

And rather than being changed when he saw the light, Paul was changed when he left the light. The truth of Jesus was Judaism. That’s the light Paul left when he changed.

And you say that he preached it to the Gentiles. Can you tell me when he finally decided to go to the Gentiles, because 98 percent of his missionary activities were among the Jews. Two percent of missionary work with the Gentiles can hardly classify one as an apostle to the Gentiles.

I have no problem with his belief in his Christ, as long as he didn’t pick an observant Jew to impersonate his Christ with, which was what he did with Jesus.**

I know that he preached against circumcision and that there was a lot of controversy about that with James and Peter. He also visited Greece and preached to the gentiles there about their “unknown god”. I really think it was more than 2 percent!

So you think that he misrepresented Jesus? I don’t. I think Mark is the most authentic Gospel, and Mark clearly points to a supernatural Jesus at the ending. I know it’s an amazing story - but I believe it is true. Jesus was transported to Heaven from the tomb, like Elijah, or Ezekiel, on the Chariot - it really happened!

 

[JMJ_coder]

**No, I am not saying that the Gentiles should be practicing Judaism instead of Christianity. They have their own Noahite laws. What I am trying is to defend the image of Judaism that Christians distort by using a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it.

About Paul being the founder of Chistianity is another problem similar to the first one. You claim that Jesus founded the Church and that’s not true. It was with Paul that Christians started and that’s not my saying but Luke’s. Read Acts 11:26.

And rather than being changed when he saw the light, Paul was changed when he left the light. The truth of Jesus was Judaism. That’s the light Paul left when he changed.

And you say that he preached it to the Gentiles. Can you tell me when he finally decided to go to the Gentiles, because 98 percent of his missionary activities were among the Jews. Two percent of missionary work with the Gentiles can hardly classify one as an apostle to the Gentiles.

I have no problem with his belief in his Christ, as long as he didn’t pick an observant Jew to impersonate his Christ with, which was what he did with Jesus.**

This would almost be funny if you didn’t actually buy into this nonsense.

 

[JMJ_coder]

**There is always remedy in God for Israel. He knows the world would not survive without Israel. No wonder of the other nations God will eventually make an end of them. But of Israel, He will only chastise as we deserve. (Jer. 46:28) **

But it does seem that historically you’ve had to take massive doses of God’s medicine.

You are right; that’s not Antisemitism; just denial of Reality.

If you’re serious, all I can say is – get over yourself. Time to get of your ego trip.

Judaism of all religions with pagan Mythology! This is hardly our trademark. We are not the ones who have brought to the world the idea of God making Himself flesh in a virgin without a human father.

No, it isn’t Judaism’s trademark – it’s the trademark you’ve made for yourself divorced from true Judaism with your nonsensical “enlightened” drivel you’ve spouted here.

Let me guess “Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son” (Is. 7:14) is yet more metaphor.

They haven’t been wrong. You don’t hear about these things from another Jew, because they don’t like to chit-chatting with Gentiles about their Faith. That’s only how they are wrong, because as Isaiah says in 42:6, We have been given as light unto the nations.

Then why are you here “chit-chatting with Gentiles about their Faith”?

Why doesn’t the Rabbi in the Synagogue next door to my house have any issues talking about religion - his or mine?

Is this coming from your heart or just from your lips? It sounds too superficial to me.

Your understanding of Christianity is paltry as is your understanding of true Judaism – as you have demonstrated repeatedly in this thread. A good part of it is probably your viewing 99% of Scripture as metaphor and what you say is your “enlightenment” and I call intellectual pride (with a hefty ego).

Sorry, I thought you liked. Perhaps I need to see better what I have typed. How about this, better for you?

If you have trouble seeing, say hello to browser font sizes!

 

[Ben_Masada]

I know that he preached against circumcision and that there was a lot of controversy about that with James and Peter. He also visited Greece and preached to the gentiles there about their “unknown god”. I really think it was more than 2 percent!

So you think that he misrepresented Jesus? I don’t. I think Mark is the most authentic Gospel, and Mark clearly points to a supernatural Jesus at the ending. I know it’s an amazing story - but I believe it is true. Jesus was transported to Heaven from the tomb, like Elijah, or Ezekiel, on the Chariot - it really happened!

**That you don’t think that Paul misrepresented Jesus, I don;'t blame you. But when you say that Mark is the most authentic of the gospels, what do you mean, that the other gospels were not authentic? That’s a change.

I didn’t know that Ezekiel had been transported to heaven. Did it really happen? That’s odd!**

 

[Ben_Masada]

But it does seem that historically you’ve had to take massive doses of God’s medicine.

Thanks God. The Father usually punishes the son he loves.

No, it isn’t Judaism’s trademark – it’s the trademark you’ve made for yourself divorced from true Judaism with your nonsensical “enlightened” drivel you’ve spouted here.

What do you know of true Judaism?

Let me guess “Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son” (Is. 7:14) is yet more metaphor.

That’s right! Surprised? I’ll tell you more. Amos in 5:2 says that the virgin is Israel. And if you go back to Isaiah 7:15,22, and 8:8 you might see that the child born of that virgin is Judah. And by name Isaiah identifies him, so you don’t have to assume that he could be Jesus.

Then why are you here “chit-chatting with Gentiles about their Faith”?

**Because I have taken upon myself to defend Judaism which has been distorted in the eyes of the world by Christians who use a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it. **

Why doesn’t the Rabbi in the Synagogue next door to my house have any issues talking about religion - his or mine?

**Because we are forbidden to get involved with missionary work. But try him to see if he is any different from me. Another reason, I believe, it’s because he does not know the NT. It’s very natural to fear when we do not know. **

Your understanding of Christianity is paltry as is your understanding of true Judaism – as you have demonstrated repeatedly in this thread. A good part of it is probably your viewing 99% of Scripture as metaphor and what you say is your “enlightenment” and I call intellectual pride (with a hefty ego).

You mean paltry my understanding of Christianity or yours of the NT? It’s an embarrassment to see how poorly Christians know of their own Bible.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

**That you don’t think that Paul misrepresented Jesus, I don;'t blame you. But when you say that Mark is the most authentic of the gospels, what do you mean, that the other gospels were not authentic? That’s a change.

I didn’t know that Ezekiel had been transported to heaven. Did it really happen? That’s odd!**

Mark was first. The other Gospels which were written later were less and less authentic. Matthew is known for trying to fit Jewish Old Testament scripture into the Jesus’ birth and life. Luke adds a lot of new details many to appease the Romans, and John is in it’s own category.

I don’t know if Ezekiel died and went to heaven, but he certainly was transported by the chariot and he certainly saw God. I read a book that said Jesus was very much influenced by the vision of Ezekiel and the chariot.

 

[Brother2]

I’m sorry, but I just think you are very biased toward Judaism (and rightly so, since you are a Jew), but this stuff doesn’t work for me. Because I believe Christ was the Messiah and he changed all the stuff in the Old Testament, by becoming the sacrificial lamb and dying for the sins of mankind. He IS the Truth and the Light and the Way.

Very interesting debate here guy and gal. I nearly said that I’m sorry to butt in but probably I’m not ha…just maybe I am in a small way qualified to come in here.

Did Lord Jesus Christ change all the stuff in the old Testament? Surely He is the author of the Old Testament why would He change it…?? From Adam and Eve to the veil in the Temple being ripped from top to bottom, the lamb was sacrificed morning and evening to teach the people the Plan of Salvation of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world…the Old Testament came true in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Church of the Old Testament started with Adam and Eve, the worship of the True God, and then became the Jewish Nation, who were to take the ‘Gospel’ to the gentiles to teach them about the True God, the Creator of heaven and earth.

Just sorry that the Jews rejected the Messiah, which the Scribes and Pharisees knew the date of His coming from the Prophecies of Daniel…no wonder they were so agitated…their influence and rule was at risk by this Messiah. No wonder they spread the rumour that the Body had been stolen, the whole idea had to be snuffed out.

So, anyway the offer of Salvation remains open for Jews, Gentiles and every human being to accept the sacrifice of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world. ‘For God so loved the world that He gave his only Son, that whosoever believes in his should not perish but have Everlasting Life’!!!

 

[robsully]

Hello. I have been following the thread with great interest and have some questions.

May I first summarize the oppossing postions:
Ben, you believe God governs by laws. Both laws of nature and laws of conduct. God requests we do not break them and God reciprocates in kind.The concept of resurrection breaks the laws of nature therefore did not happen?
Christians; you believe God can do anything God wishes to do. Man’s understanding of God is limited and although you don’t fully comprehend His ways you rely on faith? The resurrection happened.

I hope I’m close.

Questions; When Moses requested to see God’s face, Moses was denied for it would kill him. Ben did this happen? Christians, if God can do anything why would Jesus not let Moses see God’s face and save him from death, or better yet if Jesus is in the resurrection business why not let Moses see God’s face, let Moses die and then bring him back to life?

Thank You

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hello. I have been following the thread with great interest and have some questions.

May I first summarize the oppossing postions:
Ben, you believe God governs by laws. Both laws of nature and laws of conduct. God requests we do not break them and God reciprocates in kind.The concept of resurrection breaks the laws of nature therefore did not happen?
Christians; you believe God can do anything God wishes to do. Man’s understanding of God is limited and although you don’t fully comprehend His ways you rely on faith? The resurrection happened.

I hope I’m close.

Questions; When Moses requested to see God’s face, Moses was denied for it would kill him. Ben did this happen? Christians, if God can do anything why would Jesus not let Moses see God’s face and save him from death, or better yet if Jesus is in the resurrection business why not let Moses see God’s face, let Moses die and then bring him back to life?

Thank You

**Wow Robsully, you are good! You have just caught Ben and all Christians in the palm of your hand and squeezed them together like a pyton. I confess that for a moment I was grasping for air. I was lucky though. I don’t know for the Christians.

Yes, I do believe that God governs the Universe by the laws of Nature. Regarding the laws of conduct, He has left them up to us to govern ourselves. And mind you, we have been doing a good job at that.

Yes, I said that the concept of resurrection does go against nature. Therefore it does not happen.

Now, for Moses’ request to see God’s face, yes, it did happen, but in a vision. The purpose of the vision, however, was not to physically see God’s face, because God has no face to be seen. God is incorporeal. The purpose of that vision was to teach a prophetical lesson: That the main role of a Prophet is not to see the future, which is a Divine prerogative, but to speak for God to a certain People.

A Prophet is allowed to predict the future but not to see the future. There is a difference here. And Moses was not allowed. Even Moses the greatest of the Prophets. And even to predict the future is not really what makes a Prophet out of man.

But then, why “face?” Face is the front, forward or part that stands ahead. It was used as a symbol of the future. That’s what Moses asked to see. God’s attribute to see the future as one sees the present. Moses had to content with a smaller blessing: The ability to see God’s back parts. That is, an almost perfect memory of the past.

I have posted a thread about this subject **

 

[Ben_Masada]

Mark was first. The other Gospels which were written later were less and less authentic. Matthew is known for trying to fit Jewish Old Testament scripture into the Jesus’ birth and life. Luke adds a lot of new details many to appease the Romans, and John is in it’s own category.

I don’t know if Ezekiel died and went to heaven, but he certainly was transported by the chariot and he certainly saw God. I read a book that said Jesus was very much influenced by the vision of Ezekiel and the chariot.

**Ezekiel was among the first wave of Jews exiled to Babylon 10 years before the destruction of the Temple. He was very young and never returned to Israel. All the years of his Ministry as a Prophet, he spent in Babylon. His alleged transportation to Israel was during a vision. You can see it in Ezekiel 43:1-5) **

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hello. I have been following the thread with great interest and have some questions.

May I first summarize the oppossing postions:
Ben, you believe God governs by laws. Both laws of nature and laws of conduct. God requests we do not break them and God reciprocates in kind.The concept of resurrection breaks the laws of nature therefore did not happen?
Christians; you believe God can do anything God wishes to do. Man’s understanding of God is limited and although you don’t fully comprehend His ways you rely on faith? The resurrection happened.

I hope I’m close.

Questions; When Moses requested to see God’s face, Moses was denied for it would kill him. Ben did this happen? Christians, if God can do anything why would Jesus not let Moses see God’s face and save him from death, or better yet if Jesus is in the resurrection business why not let Moses see God’s face, let Moses die and then bring him back to life?

Thank You

Hi Robsully, the thread’s title about Moses is "Covered With God’s Hands."

 

[JMJ_coder]

But when you say that Mark is the most authentic of the gospels, what do you mean, that the other gospels were not authentic? That’s a change.

It depends on who you talk to. Many biblical scholars think that Mark was the first Gospel written and that the others used it and a source they name Q to compose the two other synoptic Gospels (Matthew and Luke). These are usually the same scholars who date all of them after 70 A.D. for mentioning the destruction of Jerusalem (which obviously they think God can’t predict )

I tend to follow the Church Fathers, such as Augustine, who placed Matthew first (~ 38-40 A.D.), then Mark (~ 42-44 A.D., followed by Luke (~58-60 A.D.) and lastly John who wrote very late (~ 90 A.D.).

I didn’t know that Ezekiel had been transported to heaven. Did it really happen? That’s odd!

I think she means Elijah, who was taken to Heaven in a fiery chariot. (2 Kings 2:11)

 

[JMJ_coder]

Thanks God. The Father usually punishes the son he loves.

Amen, brother! I don’t disagree – I was just pointing out that the Jewish people (and NOT ALL, there are always many who remain faithful to God no matter what – e.g., Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, the three children in Daniel, the mother and her seven sons in Maccabees, etc.) are not innocent in the blood of the prophets.

Nor do I place the Catholic Church on a pedestal as doing much better. We have also been lovingly chastised by God for failing in our Christian duty of love.

What do you know of true Judaism?

I have studied the Jewish faith quite a bit – well, up to the time of the Council of Jamnia in the first century. This is because our faith is the fulfillment of yours. Salvation comes from the Jews!

As for modern Judaism – I have seen Fiddler on the Roof.

That’s right! Surprised? I’ll tell you more. Amos in 5:2 says that the virgin is Israel. And if you go back to Isaiah 7:15,22, and 8:8 you might see that the child born of that virgin is Judah. And by name Isaiah identifies him, so you don’t have to assume that he could be Jesus.

Surprised that you consider it a metaphor – not really. Surprised that you honestly think I would buy into your weak exegesis – a little bit.

Jesus is Emmanuel (Matthew 1:23). He is ‘God among us’ because He – God (John 1:1) – has become flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14).

Because I have taken upon myself to defend Judaism which has been distorted in the eyes of the world by Christians who use a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it.

Actually Christianity is very Jewish. It is the fulfillment of Judaism. And yes, Jesus and all the Apostles (including Paul) were very devout and religious Jews.

Because we are forbidden to get involved with missionary work. But try him to see if he is any different from me. Another reason, I believe, it’s because he does not know the NT. It’s very natural to fear when we do not know.

Yes he is different from you. He doesn’t believe that his Jewish faith is a bunch of made up metaphors. And he does know what is in the New Testament – he leads the area Jewish-Christian dialogue (along with a Catholic Priest).

You mean paltry my understanding of Christianity or yours of the NT? It’s an embarrassment to see how poorly Christians know of their own Bible.

Nope, I mean yours. I know fully what the New Testament (and the Old, by the way) says. I am quite aware of what the Church teaches (and why). Of course, there is a big difference – I consider it real and not mere metaphor (though there are a few places where metaphors are used).