the meaning of Mediatrix

[Monica4316]

"We see the genesis of the doctrine of Immaculate Conception, Assumption, and the traditional role of Mary as Co-Redeemer and Mediatrix in the early Church. Here are references to Mary by other early church fathers:

Mary, you are the vessel and tabernacle containing all mysteries. You know what the Patriarchs never knew; you have experienced what was never revealed to the Angels; you have heard what the Prophets never heard. In a word, all that was hidden from preceding generations was made known to you; even more, most of these wonders depended on you. (270 A.D., St. Gregory Thaumaturgus),

Blessed Virgin, immaculate and pure you are the sinless Mother of your Son, the mighty Lord of the universe. You are holy and inviolate, the hope of the hopeless and sinful; we sing your praises. We praise you as full of every grace, for you bore the God-Man. We all venerate you; we invoke you and implore your aid…Holy and immaculate Virgin…be our intercessor and advocate at the hour of death and judgment…you are holy in the sight of God, to Whom be honor and glory, majesty, and power forever (373 AD, St. Ephem of Edessa)

It becomes you to be mindful of us, as you stand near Him Who granted you all graces, for you are the Mother of God and our Queen. Help us for the sake of the King, the Lord God Master Who was born of you. For this reason you are called ‘full of Grace’…" (373 St. Athanasius)

Blessed Virgin Mary, who can worthily repay you with praise and thanksgiving for having rescued a fallen world by your generous consent? …accept then such poor thanks as we have to offer, unequal though they be to your merits. Receive our gratitude and obtain by your prayers the pardon of our sins. Take our prayers into the sanctuary of heaven and enable them to bring about our peace with God…Holy Mary, help the miserable, strengthen the discouraged, comfort the sorrowful, pray for your people, plead for the clergy, intercede for all women consecrated to God. May all who venerate you, feel now your help and protection. …Make it your continual care to pray for the people of God, for you were blessed by God and were made worthy to bear the Redeemer of the world, who lives and reigns for ever. (St Augustine in 430 A.D. )

One of the important thing to notice in all these quotes is the clear references to God/Jesus as the Saviour and Mary’s role of interceding. Mary is a helper. There is no sin in asking someone for help. Most of us at one point or another have asked our pastor or friend to pray for us. That is what these early Church Fathers are doing."

davidmacd.com/catholic/mary_in_the_early_church.htm

 

[Monica4316]

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/fr90203.htm

 

[Monica4316]

the most complete ancient prayer to the Blessed Mother historically preserved is the Sub Tuum Praesidium (250 A.D.):

We fly to your patronage,
O holy Mother of God,
despise not our petitions
in our necessities,
but deliver us from all dangers.
O ever glorious and blessed Virgin.

 

[Eucharisted]

Mary Mediatrix means she is a channel of God’s graces, just as she was a channel of God’s Son. If God can enter the world through Mary, than so can His graces. He is infinitely greater than His gifts.

To put it another way: all Christians participate in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ by suffering and by prayer. For we are the members of His Body and He is the Head of the Church. Mary’s participation is greater than ours because her role is greater than ours. She was the Mother of God, and as such, she is the Mother of God’s graces. Just as she did not create God but only gave birth to Him, so too, she dose not create His gifts but only obtains them for others. Again, this is no different than our prayers, whereby we obtain for others graces. We pray with Mary our Mother and she prays with us to Jesus. And God permits things to work this way to show mankind His powerful Love and Mercy.

 

[Stouts989]

This a topic or “title” I’ve recently wonder about and needed clearification on. So thank you for your post. Just a few comments on your OP…

So being full of grace, when she came to Heaven, one of her rewards was to be given God’s grace to distribute to all God’s people.

Where in scripture does it teach which rewards Mary was granted in Heaven? I haven’t seen anywhere in the New Testament that says that we receive God’s Grace through Mary. What am I missing?

Rather, she brings us to Jesus, and Jesus brings us to the Father

Jesus says that God the father brings us to Him, nothing about Marry.

John 6:65

And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Where does Jesus teach that Mary plays a role in us coming to Jesus or God the father?

She has a very special role in Heaven.

How do we know this?

Thanks again!

 

[Monica4316]

OK, I get it, like Scripture-Tradition/ Sola Scripture (the “both/and” of Roman Catholics)

All clear now.

well that is one example, but there are many others as well

Monica, you explain yourself quite well. It is a pleasure to discuss with you.
Do you have a source for this, one of the early councils, or a particular ECF?

Hi, there are various ECFs who have spoken on Mary, and all of them do seem to put her in a special place. I posted some links, but here are some more links/quotes:

[Mary is] “After the mediator, the mediatrix of the whole world” (Ephrem the Syrian, 306-373)

there is a lot here:
cin.org/users/jgallegos/mary.htm

devotion to Mary and veneration was pretty common in the early Church as well… there are many quotes such as:

“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.”
Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin,71:216(ante AD 373),in MCF,106
cin.org/users/jgallegos/mary_dev.htm

I’m not meaning to be rude or simplistic in my thinking, but you’re saying that we have/need a mediator for our mediator?

well you know how we can lead others closer to God? Mary does this but in a greater way. That is what I mean. She leads us to her Son.

It’s not like she’s a “mediator for our Mediator”, technically it’s more accurate to say that she shares in her Son’s one Mediation.

She is also an intercessor.

this is just the role that God chose for her, He didn’t need to, but that is what He decided.

 

[Monica4316]

here are two useful links.

this one contains many things that the ECFs said about Mary
you’d find they’re really similar to what Catholics say about her today!
cin.org/users/jgallegos/mary.htm

and this is a good article about Mary devotion in general:
insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5917&Itemid=48

God bless

 

[Monica4316]

what do you all think of this?

[Mary is] “After the mediator, the mediatrix of the whole world” (Ephrem the Syrian, 306-373)

 

[Monica4316]

here is another good article:

ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm

and this:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=4270&CFID=9348980&CFTOKEN=30734269

here is a quote from the encyclical Redemptoris Mater:

Thus there is a mediation: Mary places herself between her Son and mankind in the reality of their wants, needs and sufferings. She puts herself “in the middle,” that is to say she acts as a mediatrix not as an outsider, but in her position as mother. She knows that as such she can point out to her Son the needs of mankind, and in fact, she “has the right” to do so. Her mediation is thus in the nature of intercession: Mary “intercedes” for mankind. And that is not all. As a mother she also wishes the messianic power of her Son to be manifested, that salvific power of his which is meant to help man in his misfortunes, to free him from the evil which in various forms and degrees weighs heavily upon his life.

the whole encyclical is pretty useful:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031987_redemptoris-mater_en.html

here is a bit from Wikipedia:

Mary, Mediatrix of all Graces is a Marian feast day introduced by Pope Benedict XV in 1921 for the whole Roman Catholic Church. [1]

Popes traditionally use encyclicals and feast day to promote Christian teaching. The Feast Day of Mary, Mediatrix of all Graces is viewed as a clear sign, that Pope Benedict intended to promote the Marian role of mediatrix. This concept has two meanings. Mary gave birth to the redeemer, who is the fountain of all grace. Therefore she participated in the mediating of grace. A second opinion states that Mary, assumed into heaven participates in the mediating of divine graces. of her son.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Mediatrix_of_all_Graces

 

[Monica4316]

Where do you find this elucidated?

there are several Saints and also encyclicals I believe that mention this. For example, St Louis de Montfort speaks of Mary as the “treasure house” of God’s grace. I can find some specific quotes if you want.

Have you ever seen a dogma laying this out as a religious fact?

I don’t think that Mary being the Spouse of the Holy Spirit is dogma, because if it was dogma it would mean that all Catholics must believe it (like the Immaculate Conception, etc.) This is a title that is used in many prayers and is also mentioned by several Saints.

Maybe this would help:
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=4270&CFID=9348980&CFTOKEN=30734269

In fact, this close relationship that Our Lady has with the Holy Spirit (remember, in the Incarnation, the Spirit ‘overshadowed’ her, and she is full of grace) - is one of the reasons why she is Mediatrix.

But what does that mean, exactly? So then, if Saint Thomas or uncle Mel brought me to Christ, it really means Saint Mary brought me to Christ?

Mary is not just one of the Saints, she’s the Mother of God. The Holy Spirit works through her to bring us to God.

If Christ is the Head of the Church, then Mary’s role is like the neck. All grace comes from Jesus but it passes through her, as through clear crystal, to the Church. So whatever grace we receive came from Christ through Mary.

Christ Himself came to us through Mary that is how the Father chose to bring us to Him. (in the Incarnation). He didn’t NEED to use Mary for this. He could have given us Christ directly. But He chose her.

I can see that all Christians, the angels and Communion of Saints likewise participating in some way. Not that this is a function somehow monopolized by a single creaturely soul.

yes I agree we all participate, but Mary in a greater way, because she is His Mother, and He came to the world through her. She is also involved in redemption because she was directly involved in the Incarnation, and the Incarnation and Redemption are linked…

This has never been properly explained. I think that it is a dangerous invention, possibly sacrilege.

I dont’ think so…

This kind of claim could be easily misunderstood. One must be careful when expounding upon such pious notions.

I’m sorry I just think it’s a matter of truth that Our Lady has a special role, that she is not like all of us.

God bless

 

[Monica4316]

Here’s another beautiful article on Mary the Mediatrix of Graces.
Check out this link: ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm

First of all, I’d like to say that I have nothing against my fellow catholics on how we look at our beloved Blessed Mother, of course, except that word or “title”…

English is my fourth language and obviously I’m still having problem with it.
Then this word. Mediatrix!
Can I suggest to my fellow catholics to choose another title if they are not yet contented with how many titles already given to our Lady?
Honestly, to me, it doesn’t sound right. Redeemer… redemptrix. Mediator… mediatrix. (Media tricks???, t-rex…bantrix…)

I’m already tired of so many tricks…:hypno:
Sorry…

it is in Latin

many people have the same problem with Co-Redemptrix. But when you translate Co-Redemptrix from Latin to English, you don’t get “co-redeemer”. You get something more like “woman with the Redeemer”.

There are a few key points I can list (not comprehensive, but at least a start):

1. Justin Martyr first recorded the Mary-Eve parallel in Dialogue with Trypho
2. Iraneus expanded the Mart-Eve parallel saying there is one divine plan of salvation that Adam disrupted and in which Eve contributed to their disobedience, but Christ is restoring Eden with the contribution of Mary. There’s more in Against Heresies, (A.D. 180) and Proof of Apostolic Preaching,
3. Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (ante A.D. 450):
4. St. Bernard:
5. In Marialis Cultus, No. 26, Paul VI says, “The Fathers and writers of the Church . . . [in] examining more deeply the mystery of the Incarnation, saw in the mysterious relationship between the Spirit and Mary an aspect redolent of marriage, poetically portrayed by Prudentius: ‘The unwed Virgin espoused by the Spirit.’”
6. Mary has been equated to the temple of the Holy Spirit in Lumen Gentium. We can debate if this is the same thing as spouse…but it’s getting late for me.

Or were you refering to dogma from early in the Church?

I think the OP explains that pretty well, but if you’re confused, I suggest you read some of the linked articles.

IMO, not exactly. Maybe if you consider Mary as the temple of the Holy Spirit, or as a favored distributor of grace that the Holy spirit uses, it may be easier to understand the devotion.

consider these quotes:

St Andrew of Crete:
St. Germanus:
And St. John Damascene:

I hope that clarifies a few things. I’m also hoping I’ll see some responses to my post about Fatima and Padre Pio…

God Bless

wow great answer!

 

[Stouts989]

cin.org/users/jgallegos/virgin.htm

Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary

“And indeed it was a virgin, about to marry once for all after her delivery, who gave birth to Christ, in order that each title of sanctity might be fulfilled in Christ’s parentage, by means of a mother who was both virgin, and wife of one husband. Again, when He is presented as an infant in the temple, who is it who receives Him into his hands? who is the first to recognise Him in spirit? A man just and circumspect,’ and of course no digamist, (which is plain) even (from this consideration), lest (otherwise) Christ should presently be more worthily preached by a woman, an aged widow, and the wife of one man;’ who, living devoted to the temple, was (already) giving in her own person a sufficient token what sort of persons ought to be the adherents to the spiritual temple,–that is, the Church. Such eye-witnesses the Lord in infancy found; no different ones had He in adult age.”
Tertullian,On Monogamy,8(A.D. 213),in ANF,IV:65

Tertullian was one ecclesiastical writer who denied Mary’s perpetual virginity despite his affirmation of the Virgin birth.

So this belief isn’t anything new found among protestants today. I have no problem in people believing in her perpetual virginity (I’ve heard very strong arguments for it). But this quote is rather interesting dating back to A.D 213. Good to know this idea isn’t something new birthed out of protestant churches.

 

[Monica4316]

that quote that Gt8952b posted is awesome

St. Bernard:

“Coming to her, the Holy Spirit filled her with grace for herself; when the same Spirit pervaded her again, she became superabundant and overflowing with grace for us also.”

 

[Monica4316]

Mary Mediatrix means she is a channel of God’s graces, just as she was a channel of God’s Son. If God can enter the world through Mary, than so can His graces. He is infinitely greater than His gifts.

To put it another way: all Christians participate in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ by suffering and by prayer. For we are the members of His Body and He is the Head of the Church. Mary’s participation is greater than ours because her role is greater than ours. She was the Mother of God, and as such, she is the Mother of God’s graces. Just as she did not create God but only gave birth to Him, so too, she dose not create His gifts but only obtains them for others. Again, this is no different than our prayers, whereby we obtain for others graces. We pray with Mary our Mother and she prays with us to Jesus. And God permits things to work this way to show mankind His powerful Love and Mercy.

YES

This a topic or “title” I’ve recently wonder about and needed clearification on. So thank you for your post. Just a few comments on your OP…

Where in scripture does it teach which rewards Mary was granted in Heaven? I haven’t seen anywhere in the New Testament that says that we receive God’s Grace through Mary. What am I missing?

as Catholics we are not “sola Scriptura” so we have Scripture and also Tradition which interprets Scripture. (Church interpreting Scripture, in other words…) the idea that Mary was given graces to pass on to us is a Church teaching.

If you want Scriptural evidence, here is a link that mentions all the Bible verses relating to Mary. scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html

Jesus says that God the father brings us to Him, nothing about Marry.

we come to the Father through Christ.

But Mary points us to her Son, says “do what He tells you” - through her, we can come closer to Jesus.

as I said in the OP, it’s not like Mary is “another separate way to God”. Her way goes through Christ. She’s Mediatrix IN Christ, not apart from Christ.

so if we go through Mary to God, we ARE going through Christ to God as well. They are not in competition with one another.

And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Where does Jesus teach that Mary plays a role in us coming to Jesus or God the father?

How do we know this?

Thanks again!

I think this is very similar to the Holy Trinity. There’s no verse in the Bible that mentions the Trinity by name, but if we put it all together, we can see it there.

it’s the same with Mary. There’s no one verse or passage that answers your question. But if you take all the Bible verses on Mary and try to put them all together into a cohesive whole, and that is what the Catholic Church teaches. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, so if we find her, we find Christ also. She’s the Queen Mother (just as in the Old Testament) and also rules over the Kingdom of her Son, together with Him. She is full of grace and only ever does His will. What is His will? that all the world might know the Father. So Mary in Heaven is leading people to Him through her prayers. She still says, “do whatever He tells you”.
scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html

God bless

 

[Monica4316]

catholic.net/index.php?option=dedestaca&id=2711

 

[Monica4316]

cin.org/users/jgallegos/virgin.htm

So this belief isn’t anything new found among protestants today. I have no problem in people believing in her perpetual virginity (I’ve heard very strong arguments for it). But this quote is rather interesting dating back to A.D 213. Good to know this idea isn’t something new birthed out of protestant churches.

When we look at the ECFs, we have to look at what most of them believed, not just one. Because there were heresies back then too. Almost all of the ECFs did believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity. If Tertullian didn’t, well everyone disagreed with him lol!

check this out:
cin.org/users/jgallegos/virgin.htm

 

[Stouts989]

I don’t understand where this notion that Grace comes through Marry. Why wouldn’t this be stated in scripture if it such an essential part of the redemptive work of Christ? I did a word search on Bible Gateway for “grace”. I read through the entire list and not once was Marry and grace mentioned in the same sentence. The earliest quotes I read from the given links were dated to the late 3rd to late 4th century about Marry and her role in God’s grace. I find problems with that. If Mary is the one bringing us to Christ and if Christ is puring out His grace on us through Mary…this is kind of a big deal and to me seems like it would be a fundamental principal to how the Grace of God works…but yet we don’t see any of it in the written word of God. That seems problematic to me.

 

[Stouts989]

When we look at the ECFs, we have to look at what most of them believed, not just one. Because there were heresies back then too. Almost all of the ECFs did believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity. If Tertullian didn’t, well everyone disagreed with him lol!

check this out:
cin.org/users/jgallegos/virgin.htm

I’m sure Tertullian wasn’t the only one who believed this during his time. I just wanted to note that this belief that Marry wasn’t a perpetual virgin isn’t something new and created out of the reformation. I didn’t know that its claims has some historicity to it going back to at least the early 3rd century and maybe earlier. I learned something new today…lol.

also here’s a link you might find interesting.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Saying that most of the EFC believed it makes it true is a classic logical fallacy. I’m not saying that they are wrong, but we can’t say that they are right because of the majority vote.

 

[Monica4316]

I don’t understand where this notion that Grace comes through Marry.

I’m sorry, I wish I could describe it better… there are whole books written about it. It took me a long, long time to agree with it. It’s really something that you understand with your heart more than with your mind. I’ve prayed a lot about it and then it made more sense. I’ll see if I could find a good link or quote for you.

Why wouldn’t this be stated in scripture if it such an essential part of the redemptive work of Christ?

there are many things we all believe that are not stated explicitly in Scripture, such as the Trinity.

I believe that the Church interprets the Bible for us. We need both, both are from God… Scripture, and Church. Not just one. In the Bible itself it says, “the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth”…

I did a word search on Bible Gateway for “grace”. I read through the entire list and not once was Marry and grace mentioned in the same sentence.

it does say that Mary is full of grace. That has important theological implications… just think…this can’t be said about any other person who ever lived. There’s a greek word the Bible uses for this…and it’s only used this once. It means she’s completely filled with grace, there is nothing else in her.

the Church says, there’s so much grace in her, it flows out to the whole world. FROM Christ, THROUGH Mary.

The earliest quotes I read from the given links were dated to the late 3rd to late 4th century about Marry and her role in God’s grace. I find problems with that. If Mary is the one bringing us to Christ and if Christ is puring out His grace on us through Mary…this is kind of a big deal and to me seems like it would be a fundamental principal to how the Grace of God works…but yet we don’t see any of it in the written word of God. That seems problematic to me.

truth was given to us once through revelation, through the Apostles. But, with time we come to a greater understanding of it. This explains why the quotes are (mostly, not all!) from the 3rd century onwards.

I don’t think taht is problematic cause we see the SAME thing happen with Christ’s divinity, the Trinity, and the Bible itself (remember, the Church existed before the Bible did). None of these ideas existed in the very early Church. They all came with time, with Church councils… it says, “the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth.”

 

[Monica4316]

I’m sure Tertullian wasn’t the only one who believed this during his time.

sure, him, and several heretics lol j/k…

what i’m trying to say is that we have to look at what the majority of the ECFs said, because* that most clearly shows the Church teaching of that time.
*

I just wanted to note that this belief that Marry wasn’t a perpetual virgin isn’t something new and created out of the reformation. I didn’t know that its claims has some historicity to it going back to at least the early 3rd century and maybe earlier. I learned something new today…lol.

also here’s a link you might find interesting.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

oki

Saying that most of the EFC believed it makes it true is a classic logical fallacy. I’m not saying that they are wrong, but we can’t say that they are right because of the majority vote.

no it says that this is what the Church taught. and since the “church is the pillar and foundation of truth”, it does matter a lot what it teaches. I might even say that what it teaches is the truth.

so logically, if most ECFs supported the perpetual virginity, then this was the Church teaching, and that means that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Cause the Holy Spirit prevents the Church from officially (dogmatically) teaching error.

(I mean the Catholic Church)