The Mind vs Brain

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yppop said:
Scientists can’t figure out the mysteries of the brain because they refuse to allow for the presence of a spiritual component existing conterminously with the neurons, the material component. The presence of a spiritual component provides us with dual memory: a material memory located in the neuronal circuitry of the brain and a “perceptual” memory located in the spiritual substance called nous. The perceptual memory stores qualia, feelings, emotions, meanings, concepts, and percepts, all of which have a “continuous” nature. Neurons, on the other hand have a “discrete” (individual) nature. Specific neuronal circuits activate specific areas of the perceptual memory to induce sentient experiences.

Photons of a certain energy (wavelength) activate certain cones in the retina that convert light to an action potential that is transferred through 3 other types of cells to the optic nerve. The optic nerve sends the action potentials to the thalamus where it is transferred to visual area of the cerebral cortex and we “see” the color red. The redness is not the complex neuronal circuitry; neurons are matter and matter cannot and does not generate redness. The neurons merely provide the pathway from the photons to the experience of redness. Light energy causes redness, but the photons are not red. The photon merely start the activation of neurons that activate the nous in which the neurons are immersed. The redness, along with all other qualia, must inhere in the nous that forms the perceptual memory from which the sentient experience arises.

From this we can argue that the mind is the interaction of the brain and the nous. Without the brain or without the nous we cannot see. Both are required. However, when we see red, the mind invariably silently “thinks” the word red. Thinking requires language and that implies that the part of the brain that interacts with the nous to form the mind is the neuronal circuits that store the language instinct in humans. Other animals have brains with similar neuronal circuitry and nous that generates an experience of redness, but do not possess minds. Consequently both a material component, the language circuitry of the brain and a spiritual component called nous are necessary for a mind to exist and function.
Yppop
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Again, in English please.
 
Faith1960 said:
First you said the soul is a substantial part of the body, then said it isn’t part of the body.:confused:
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Not a part of the body, form of the body.

This is confusing a priori because it is an Aquinian term; form in this context does not mean moldline or shape, but rather the “informing principle” that makes a body a human body.

One could identify the soul with the life, and it’s functions, among others, with movement and mind.

One could examine the human anatomy from the skulldome to the toetips and hands but not find the soul, which is not “part” of the body. Yet if there is no soul (life), what is left is not the body of a human being, but a heap of dead human anatomy.

Likewise, one could examine the brain and not find one thought or idea. Those belong to the mind. The mind depends on the brain to hold it together, as the soul depends on the body to hold and express it (the life). But in neither case are they the same.

ICXC NIKA
 
I’ve seen many pictures, images and diagrams of the brain – PET scans can capture it while it is working. But other than the word ‘emotion’, there is a lack of anything visual, explanatory, that cannot be explained also by physiology. . In other words, name one thing this mind can do that the brain cannot!
 
Michael19682 said:
I’ve seen many pictures, images and diagrams of the brain – PET scans can capture it while it is working. But other than the word ‘emotion’, there is a lack of anything visual, explanatory, that cannot be explained also by physiology. . In other words, name one thing this mind can do that the brain cannot!
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Since you mentioned PET scans, can somebody explain how they light up and show the brain activity if thoughts etc are from the mind and not brain?
 
Faith1960 said:
Since you mentioned PET scans, can somebody explain how they light up and show the brain activity if thoughts etc are from the mind and not brain?
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Excellent question! But sorry that I’m not “somebody” who can answer that without reverting to well, metaphysics.
 
Faith1960 said:
Since you mentioned PET scans, can somebody explain how they light up and show the brain activity if thoughts etc are from the mind and not brain?
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Seriously though, God knows everything and is mentally represented in us through our knowledge of him in nature, the scripture, through our out calling to the Holy Spirit. Wouldn’t you agree that once God has become known, only willful rejection of him can stop his (perceived) influence?
 
Faith1960 said:
I’m reading a book by a Christian author, Holley Gerth called You’re Going To Be Okay.
She’s a counselor with a master’s. It sounds like she’s equating the brain and mind as one in the same, unless I’m misunderstanding.

For those who believe that the brain and mind are separate, do you acknowledge that without the various parts of the brain and it’s function we’d have no emotion, no ability to do anything?
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I’ve often quoted the fact my father appeared in my room the night he died, in a street called Manson Parade, Yeronga. He materialised near the bedroom door, started with an apology, we talked and argued, and at the end he gave this terrifying scream and then promptly disappeared.

Now we “talked”. He could hear me as he answered my questions or argued back. He could see me, and I could “see him”. It was obvious he understood what I was saying, and the conversation was logical and lucid. It was also clear there was a third party involved, as most of the time he was looking over my head as though enthralled, and at other times hiding his face behind his hands as though he was too appalled to see what he was watching (I think he was seeing the less honourable parts of his life at those times). And at the end he turned to my left, and it was quite obvious something was coming for him which terrified him to the absolute core.

Yet his brain was lying dead miles away in a street called Rivington Street, Nundah, where he died.

It’s pretty clear to me that mind and brain are two separate entities, but while we’re in the physical body, they’re closely bound together. When we die, they separate, and the mind / soul takes with it the heritage of the life it has lived.

In that respect, we’re a trinity, a miniature of the real Trinity, with body, mind and soul. We can exist without the body, but we’re no longer fully human and cannot do anything “physical”. Without the mind, we’d have no personality, an empty bottle, and without the soul, our ground of being would no longer exist. Since we’re made in God’s image, our Trinitarian reality should surprise no one.
 
Faith1960 said:
You couldn’t have an emotion or at least not be able to interpret it without a brain.
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I’m not able to feel my toes without a spinal cord.
But no one accuses people with a C3 or C4 break of not having toes.

I am uncertain I understand where you are headed with this.
You appear to be equating a feeling with the organ that we use to live.
 
vz71 said:
I’m not able to feel my toes without a spinal cord.
But no one accuses people with a C3 or C4 break of not having toes.

I am uncertain I understand where you are headed with this.
You appear to be equating a feeling with the organ that we use to live.
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V3??

Methinks she is arguing that, because all mental activity is represented in the activities of the brain, that there is no mind distinct from the brain.

I have not read the book referenced in the OP, nor am I going to go to the trouble of buying it, but it surprises me that a “Christian counselor” would make that argument, given the Christian belief in a “rational soul” producing most if not all of what we think of as the mind (using the head to do so, as it uses the eyes to see and the limbs to move).

ICXC NIKA
 
Faith1960 said:
Since you mentioned PET scans, can somebody explain how they light up and show the brain activity if thoughts etc are from the mind and not brain?
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I can look at the light switch and see the light to be on.

Does that mean the switch is the light?
 
vz71, I don’t understand your analogy at all.

If you look at the switch, all it might tell you is if the switch is in the ‘on’ position. It tells you nothing about the light. The bulb may have blown, the circuit breaker may have tripped, there could be a power cut, the switch may have become disconnected.

The way to tell if the light is on is by seeing the light itself.
 
Faith1960 said:
Again, in English please.
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If you can’t understand my post, try to avoid any discussion concerning the relationship of the mind and the brain, the answer is far more difficult than what I presented.
yppop
 
yppop said:
If you can’t understand my post, try to avoid any discussion concerning the relationship of the mind and the brain, the answer is far more difficult than what I presented.
yppop
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If you really understood it yourself, you could be able to state your post in simpler language. Then again, anyone can copy what an expert has already written.
 
vz71 said:
I can look at the light switch and see the light to be on.

Does that mean the switch is the light?
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You do agree that PET scans are showing brain activity when the patient is thinking, worrying etc., right?
 
Michael19682 said:
I’ve seen many pictures, images and diagrams of the brain – PET scans can capture it while it is working. But other than the word ‘emotion’, there is a lack of anything visual, explanatory, that cannot be explained also by physiology. . In other words, name one thing this mind can do that the brain cannot!
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The mind can analyze the PET scans in terms of universal concepts that can be communicated to others and be subject to abstract thought.

But the mind cannot analyze the PET scans without having the sensory (name removed by moderator)ut from the brain.
 
One might say that ‘there is no mind distinct from the brain.’
At least, until we die. At that point the mind has no choice but to be distinct from the brain, but it has no further sensory (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
JimG said:
One might say that ‘there is no mind distinct from the brain.’
At least, until we die. At that point the mind has no choice but to be distinct from the brain, but it has no further sensory (name removed by moderator)ut.
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You do agree then, that one can’t think without the brain, right?
 
Bob_Crowley said:
I’ve often quoted the fact my father appeared in my room the night he died, in a street called Manson Parade, Yeronga. He materialised near the bedroom door, started with an apology, we talked and argued, and at the end he gave this terrifying scream and then promptly disappeared.
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When your father appeared and the two of you interacted, did you get a sense of which aspect(s) of him were present?

Mind/body/soul etc?

I have not has such an experience and I wonder which part of the person manifests and which part of the viewer perceives the manifestation.

Thank you for sharing your powerful experience.
 
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