The Mind vs Brain

  • Thread starter Thread starter Faith1960
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
schaeffer said:
When your father appeared and the two of you interacted, did you get a sense of which aspect(s) of him were present?

Mind/body/soul etc?

I have not has such an experience and I wonder which part of the person manifests and which part of the viewer perceives the manifestation.

Thank you for sharing your powerful experience.
Click to expand...
There is no way of knowing.

We use our eyes to see, but our minds do the seeing. That is why we experience “sight” in dreams, even though our eyes are closed and in the dark.

So when we have a “vision” unshared by anybody else, who is to say whether we used our eyes or only our minds to see?

Likewise, minds and souls per se cannot be seen; but if someone appears after their death, they would not be in their “human lifetime” body. So what would be seen? Have we a word in English for such?

ICXC NIKA
 
Faith1960 said:
You do agree then, that one can’t think without the brain, right?
Click to expand...
I would agree that the mind does not function while we are alive without being united to the brain, actually the whole body. But it is the mind, a non-material faculty, which thinks, not the brain. And since the mind is immaterial, it can survive separation from the body at death.
 
JimG said:
I would agree that the mind does not function while we are alive without being united to the brain, actually the whole body. But it is the mind, a non-material faculty, which thinks, not the brain. And since the mind is immaterial, it can survive separation from the body at death.
Click to expand...
Then how do you explain the PET scans that show brain activity when people are thinking etc.?
 
Faith1960 said:
Then how do you explain the PET scans that show brain activity when people are thinking etc.?
Click to expand...
I agreed that the mind and brain (soul and body) are intimately connected. They have to be, for us to stay alive. Of course PET scans show brain activity when people are thinking, because brain activity provides the necessary sense data for the intellect. Mind and brain work together.
 
JimG said:
I agreed that the mind and brain (soul and body) are intimately connected. They have to be, for us to stay alive. Of course PET scans show brain activity when people are thinking, because brain activity provides the necessary sense data for the intellect. Mind and brain work together.
Click to expand...
Ok, I though you might’ve been denying that.
 
Faith1960 said:
If you really understood it yourself, you could be able to state your post in simpler language. Then again, anyone can copy what an expert has already written.
Click to expand...
Faith
This happens to be an original thesis that I developed, I am my own expert. Which “words” or “sentences” don’t you understand?

The mind as the interface between the neuronal circuitry that is associated with the language instinct (the Broca and Wernicke areas of the cerebral cortex) and the spiritual component (the nous) is not something expressed in the literature as far as my knowledge of the subject goes.

Are you unable to accept the presence of a spiritual component. It manifests itself as consciousness. It is the substance that forms the soul. It is the only plausible source of qualia.

Are you interested or do you just want me to go away?
Yppop
 
yppop said:
Faith
This happens to be an original thesis that I developed, I am my own expert. Which “words” or “sentences” don’t you understand?

The mind as the interface between the neuronal circuitry that is associated with the language instinct (the Broca and Wernicke areas of the cerebral cortex) and the spiritual component (the nous) is not something expressed in the literature as far as my knowledge of the subject goes.

Are you unable to accept the presence of a spiritual component. It manifests itself as consciousness. It is the substance that forms the soul. It is the only plausible source of qualia.

Are you interested or do you just want me to go away?
Yppop
Click to expand...
Since minds and heads are things we all possess, but most of us are nonphilosophers, it would help to avoid words like “qualia”.

I look up words I don’t understand; not everybody has that much discretionary time, energy or eye strength.

ICXC NIKA
 
JimG said:
The mind can analyze the PET scans in terms of universal concepts that can be communicated to others and be subject to abstract thought.

But the mind cannot analyze the PET scans without having the sensory (name removed by moderator)ut from the brain.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure what you are driving at? As far as I remember the PET scan shows mere metabolic activity in those regions of the brain, and thus we infer processing of a specific type dependent on the area under observation: “demonstration” of tracts, fibers, pathways, etc. in such and such processing type, math, language, visual-audio perception, etc.

If your comment means that the brain is not the final arbiter, but a mediator of mind activity, I would counter that we simply are yet unable to decode the PET scan activity.

And I think it is all able to fit into Catholic doctrine quite nicely, if we just get a little creative in turn in of our application of the mysteries of the Holy Spirit and its gifts, namely, “understanding”. When we realize that understanding comes from and is God’s, we are less concerned about whether the brain is wizard at math or language, which it certainly is!

Check out this article,

scientificamerican.com/article/the-memory-code/

you’d have to buy the article, I think, but the abstract lays bare the premise – in lower animals like mice we CAN decode certain memories (of experiences) ((and this may lead to interspecies communication potential that is real.))
 
Michael19682 said:
I’m not sure what you are driving at? As far as I remember the PET scan shows mere metabolic activity in those regions of the brain, and thus we infer processing of a specific type dependent on the area under observation: “demonstration” of tracts, fibers, pathways, etc. in such and such processing type, math, language, visual-audio perception, etc.

If your comment means that the brain is not the final arbiter, but a mediator of mind activity, I would counter that we simply are yet unable to decode the PET scan activity.

And I think it is all able to fit into Catholic doctrine quite nicely, if we just get a little creative in turn in of our application of the mysteries of the Holy Spirit and its gifts, namely, “understanding”. When we realize that understanding comes from and is God’s, we are less concerned about whether the brain is wizard at math or language, which it certainly is!

Check out this article,

scientificamerican.com/article/the-memory-code/

you’d have to buy the article, I think, but the abstract lays bare the premise – in lower animals like mice we CAN decode certain memories (of experiences) ((and this may lead to interspecies communication potential that is real.))
Click to expand...
I’m interested to read what Jim and GEddie’s thoughts are about your most recent post.
 
Michael19682 said:
I’m not sure what you are driving at? As far as I remember the PET scan shows mere metabolic activity in those regions of the brain, and thus we infer processing of a specific type dependent on the area under observation: “demonstration” of tracts, fibers, pathways, etc. in such and such processing type, math, language, visual-audio perception, etc.

If your comment means that the brain is not the final arbiter, but a mediator of mind activity, I would counter that we simply are yet unable to decode the PET scan activity.

And I think it is all able to fit into Catholic doctrine quite nicely, if we just get a little creative in turn in of our application of the mysteries of the Holy Spirit and its gifts, namely, “understanding”. When we realize that understanding comes from and is God’s, we are less concerned about whether the brain is wizard at math or language, which it certainly is!

Check out this article,

scientificamerican.com/article/the-memory-code/

you’d have to buy the article, I think, but the abstract lays bare the premise – in lower animals like mice we CAN decode certain memories (of experiences) ((and this may lead to interspecies communication potential that is real.))
Click to expand...
My point was simply that it is the mind which infers the meaning of the results of the scan. It is the mind which does the inferring. It is the mind which ponders the meaning of any type of sensory data a human being receives. It is the mind which thinks about what all this means and then composes scientific papers about it.

I’m not sure what you mean by the brain as final arbiter vs mediator of mind activity. If mind is immaterial, a faculty of the soul, then it’s activity is also immaterial—that is, thoughts and ideas.

If the brain produces mind, then there is no need of a soul, and human beings are purely material, including our thoughts and ideas.

If human beings are composed of body and soul, matter and spirit, then our means of obtaining knowledge comes first through the senses, with data integrated in the brain and abstracted by the mind. We do not obtain knowledge, at least normally, by the direct infusion of knowledge by the Holy Spirit.

But one can never directly observe the mind at work, because it is immaterial. There is nothing for our instruments to study. The only observation of the mind at work can be through introspection—observing one’s own mind at work. A PET scan can never prove that I have a mind or am a thinking being!
 
I have to add that I have no problem with the idea that memories can be stored in the brain, or that the brain can be stimulated to recall such memories. That’s data, and data is material.
 
JimG said:
My point was simply that it is the mind which infers the meaning of the results of the scan. It is the mind which does the inferring. It is the mind which ponders the meaning of any type of sensory data a human being receives. It is the mind which thinks about what all this means and then composes scientific papers about it.

I’m not sure what you mean by the brain as final arbiter vs mediator of mind activity. If mind is immaterial, a faculty of the soul, then it’s activity is also immaterial—that is, thoughts and ideas.

If the brain produces mind, then there is no need of a soul, and human beings are purely material, including our thoughts and ideas.

If human beings are composed of body and soul, matter and spirit, then our means of obtaining knowledge comes first through the senses, with data integrated in the brain and abstracted by the mind. We do not obtain knowledge, at least normally, by the direct infusion of knowledge by the Holy Spirit.

But one can never directly observe the mind at work, because it is immaterial. There is nothing for our instruments to study. The only observation of the mind at work can be through introspection—observing one’s own mind at work. A PET scan can never prove that I have a mind or am a thinking being!
Click to expand...
But PET scans do prove the subject is thinking, it’s that activity and more that the PET scan is highlighting.
 
I’m not sure what you mean by the brain as final arbiter vs mediator of mind activity. If mind is immaterial, a faculty of the soul, then it’s activity is also immaterial—that is, thoughts and ideas.
Click to expand...
I do not know where in scripture we learn that the mind is automatically 100 percent immaterial. In my view brain and mind are interchangeable. Body vs mind refers to mere insentience versus vivified matter (LIFE!) by God; as in the creation of man and the Lord’s sending of the Holy Spirit (along with its gifts).
If the brain produces mind, then there is no need of a soul, and human beings are purely material, including our thoughts and ideas
Click to expand...
.

Not produces it; but is itself a more holistic, encompassing conceptualization of the brain, taking into account creative and as yet understood aspects of its physical capacity.
Mind is brain vivified by the Holy Spirit’s understanding and other gifts see Isiah, Romans and Corinthians and Catechism (?); Else we are left with a brain that is insentient matter. Mind is brain proper. You can wear a hat on your head, but no need for one on your mind.
If human beings are composed of body and soul, matter and spirit, then our means of obtaining knowledge comes first through the senses, with data integrated in the brain and** abstracted by the mind**
Click to expand...
what does that mean in bold? How does the mind abstract the brain? correctly and without error? Is it God? Politely, I ask, are you a ___________ or a Catholic?
We do not obtain knowledge, at least normally, by the direct infusion of knowledge by the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
You confuse knowledge with the objects of knowledge; the latter are sensory data, as an example.
There is nothing for our instruments to study. The only observation of the mind at work can be through introspection—observing one’s own mind at work. A PET scan can never prove that I have a mind or am a thinking being!
Click to expand...
Where two or three are gathered in his name,
That’s a measure that people can agree upon, and a gift of God that proves you exist. You find yourself in community with other believers agreeing about the only thing that can be known with true agreement, Jesus presence, pure truth the same today and forever.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top