The Missing Passover

[LilyM]

I don’t really care about AD or CE, because either way it refers to the same event.

We’re all working from a Catholic calendar anyway, so what difference does it make.

No it doesn’t refer to the same event - only AD actually makes clear that the dating system is about Jesus. CE is a pathetic PC attempt to avoid referring to that fact - and is a denial the Christian basis of this aspect of our society.

It’s as bad as saying ‘Happy Holidays’ instead of ‘Merry Christmas’ or ‘Happy Easter’ - it denies Christ without whom those holidays wouldn’t even be.

 

[Reuben_J]

** NEVER ONCE! What are you talking about? You say so because you don’t know what is to be a religious Jew. As a religious Jew, he could never allow a woman to touch him, let alone to anoint him with perfume on his head and feet, and kissing them. **

You assume, right? Because he was a religious Jew, he could never allow a woman to touch him? Isn’t this kind of argument appealing to common practice or rather, a hasty generalization? Anyway, he did perform a task on Sabbath though. So what does that make of him?

You cannot pin down the author’s mistake by assuming and generalizing simply because Jesus was different. You cannot downsize and brand him. No one ever alive is like him. He did not play by the law; he IS the law as he IS the Lord of the Sabbath. Jewish law did not have a hold on him for the law is the master of man. He is not just any man; he is divine too.

 

[Thing]

What is this Common Era that happened 2009 years ago?

 

[ralphinal]

What is this Common Era that happened 2009 years ago?

The CE type notation is totally assanine. The idea that 33 CE is more like 2009 CE than 33 BCE is crazy.

All that it does is show the illogical attempts some have to remove Jesus.

 

[kalt]

No it doesn’t refer to the same event - only AD actually makes clear that the dating system is about Jesus. CE is a pathetic PC attempt to avoid referring to that fact - and is a denial the Christian basis of this aspect of our society.

It’s as bad as saying ‘Happy Holidays’ instead of ‘Merry Christmas’ or ‘Happy Easter’ - it denies Christ without whom those holidays wouldn’t even be.

That’s what I was trying to say. It’s the same thing by another name. Everyone knows that the common era in CE means from Jesus’ birth on. They’re not changing a thing.

I agree that it’s a pathetic PC attempt. All PC attempts are pathetic.

 

[Ben_Masada]

You assume, right? Because he was a religious Jew, he could never allow a woman to touch him? Isn’t this kind of argument appealing to common practice or rather, a hasty generalization? Anyway, he did perform a task on Sabbath though. So what does that make of him?

You cannot pin down the author’s mistake by assuming and generalizing simply because Jesus was different. You cannot downsize and brand him. No one ever alive is like him. He did not play by the law; he IS the law as he IS the Lord of the Sabbath. Jewish law did not have a hold on him for the law is the master of man. He is not just any man; he is divine too.

**As I can see, you are not talking about a Jewish man called Jesus. Jesus was not the Law; he was under the Law, with the same duty to obey just like any other Jew, and he left that very clear in Matthew 5:17-19. Jesus was not divine. I mean, not as an individual, but as part of the People he belonged to.

Now, regarding being lord of the Sabbath, Jesus was not the only one. We all are lords of the Sabbath. We have all the right to do with it as we please without fear, since the New Covenant was established with the return of the Jews from Babylon. Surprised! Return to me for more explanation if you have got startled with the news.

Ben: **

 

[Ben_Masada]

ralphinal;5056067:

From a NT scholar/priest that I talked to in person.

Of course! What did you expect to hear from a priest?

The Catholic Church believes that Jesus was never married, but there is no official teaching on the point.

As you can see, the Church believes that Jesus was never married but has nothing to prove that he was not. So, it’s not a scandal for me to believe that he was married.

That the NT doesn’t mention a wife is really unimpressive. Wives in Jewish writing were routinely left out of the narrative.

Keep on the good work. You are on the right track.

It was expected that Jewish men would be married, and there’s a part of the NT where Jesus is chastised about marriage (lack of). I’m sorry I can’t remember exactly where.

**If Jesus was not married at the age 30, he would have faced with even physical aggression by trying to teach in public. **

There is no absolute proof one way or the other, but what little evidence there is points to his not being married.

To acknowledge Jesus’ married status, would minimize many of the NT contradictions.

The OP has an axe to grind and isn’t as well-versed in Jewish history or the NT as he claims.

**And who is telling me this, someone with a Ph D. in Jewish
studies? I don’t think so.

Ben: **

 

[Ben_Masada]

Where does it say He was married? What evidence have you gathered?

:angel1:

**Where does it say that he was NOT married? I assure you at least, that more are the evidences that he was married than that he was not.

Ben: **

 

[kalt]

**Where does it say that he was NOT married? I assure you at least, that more are the evidences that he was married than that he was not.

Ben: **

There is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus was married. What little evidence there is points to his not being married.

You can assume that he must have been married, because that was the custom. Since when does a society follow a custom 100%?

There is no evidence that he was married, which is why the church believes that he wasn’t. The only evidence points to his not being married.

FWIW, and what you seem not to know, there wasn’t a single Jewish culture in Jesus’ time. There were orthodox as well as more liberal groups.

One doens’t need to have a PHD to see the very obvious faults in your reasoning.

 

[ralphinal]

I will ask one more time. Please show me that the Essenes did not keep their own calendar and that it was impossible for Jesus to have followed it.

Also, to say that Jesus was a Jew so he must have been married is to ignore the Essenes completely as they were celebate.

Now, I know that you LOVE to present Judaism of that era as a monolithic group, but like today, that is not the case.

 

[Ben_Masada]

[qauote]There is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus was married. What little evidence there is points to his not being married.

That’s what you think from looking at a picture from the other side of the fence. I stand before the picture, if you can understand allegorical language.

You can assume that he must have been married, because that was the custom. Since when does a society follow a custom 100%?

I do not assume. I speculate on evidences.

There is no evidence that he was married, which is why the church believes that he wasn’t. The only evidence points to his not being married.

To declare that “the only evidence points to his not being married,” only allows me to claim that the Church deleted almost all the evidences that Jesus was indeed married, and with Mary Magdalene.

FWIW, and what you seem not to know, there wasn’t a single Jewish culture in Jesus’ time. There were orthodox as well as more liberal groups.

Jesus was a strictly Orthodox Jew. Read Matthew 5:17-19. To declare that he observed the Jewish laws down to the dot of the letter, only an Orthodox Jew would be able of such a fit. As an Orthodox Jew, he would never allow a woman who was not his wife to anoint and kiss him in public. Even being married, religious Jews avoid such exhibitions in public. You don’t have a clue of what it means to be a religious Jew. No offense meant.

One doens’t need to have a PHD to see the very obvious faults in your reasoning.

**But I guess it does to make you guys see the light of Logic.

Ben: **

 

[wolfgang]

ralphinal;5053135:

No wife mentioned, no marriage mentioned…If he was married, why would it be left out? Jesus NEVER ONCE does anything to indicate he is married at all.

** NEVER ONCE! What are you talking about? You say so because you don’t know what is to be a religious Jew. As a religious Jew, he could never allow a woman to touch him, let alone to anoint him with perfume on his head and feet, and kissing them. The woman had to be his wife. That will take care of your NEVER ONCE for the time being. **

**You are right. It’s not enough. I remember to have asked you to show me in the whole of your NT, a statement saying that Jesus was NOT married. If you can’t, do not criticize me for gathering evidences in the NT that Jesus was indeed married.

Ben: **

Where does it say He was married? What evidence have you gathered?

:angel1:

**Where does it say that he was NOT married? I assure you at least, that more are the evidences that he was married than that he was not.

Ben: **

Ben, where is the evidence that Jesus was married? You say you can assure me - then show me. I asked you what evidence you gathered and you answer by saying that there are evidences that he was married. What evidences?

:angel1:

 

[kalt]

That’s what you think from looking at a picture from the other side of the fence. I stand before the picture, if you can understand allegorical language.

I do not assume. I speculate on evidences.

To declare that “the only evidence points to his not being married,” only allows me to claim that the Church deleted almost all the evidences that Jesus was indeed married, and with Mary Magdalene.

I see. You read The Davinci Code. LOL

Conspiracy theory and prejudiced accusations are not evidence.

Jesus was a strictly Orthodox Jew. Read Matthew 5:17-19. To declare that he observed the Jewish laws down to the dot of the letter, only an Orthodox Jew would be able of such a fit. As an Orthodox Jew, he would never allow a woman who was not his wife to anoint and kiss him in public. Even being married, religious Jews avoid such exhibitions in public. You don’t have a clue of what it means to be a religious Jew. No offense meant.

Did orthog\dox Jews work on the Sabbath?

Did orthodox Jews eat with social outcasts?

**But I guess it does to make you guys see the light of Logic.

You may have offered the most illogical arguments I’ve ever seen on the forums.

Fess up. You aren’t Jewish, are you? **

Ben:

 

[kalt]

**Where does it say that he was NOT married? I assure you at least, that more are the evidences that he was married than that he was not.

Ben: **

Can you give us a list of both, then? A list of the evidence that he was married, followed by a list of evidence that he wasn’t/

 

[swariffin]

The Missing Passover

We are starting Passover here in Israel. But since the wheels of the Truth cannot stop rolling, I want to bring to your attention the Passover of the year 30 CE. It was supposed to be the last one that Jesus would partake of, and he missed it.

According to John 19:31, that Sabbath was a solemn Sabbath, which is what we call in Hebrew a Shabbaton. That’s when a festival falls on the Sabbath. The KJV brings: “For that Sabbath day was a high day.”

That Sabbath was the 14th of the month of Nissan; the first day of Passover. The beginning of it is celebrated with the Passover Supper at the evening of the previous day, being that year on Friday. That’s what we call the Seder Meal.

In the year 30 CE, the Passover Supper was held on the evening of that Friday. No wonder, everyone somehow connected with the events taking place on the Calvary that day, had to leave it in a hurry to prepare themselves and their houses for the Passover Supper.

Jesus missed that Passover Supper because he was on the cross, and soon afterwards, in the tomb. But then again, how to understand that he celebrated his Passover Supper on the evening of Thursday, which was the 13th of Nissan? He didn’t. In Israel, no Jew would celebrate Passover in a different day alone or in a small group when everyone else would be doing it next day.

This discrepancy is perhaps due to the fact that the gospel writer, writing somehwere in the world, and realizing that the Jews in the Diaspora would celebrate every festival in two days, thought he could have Jesus celebrate the Passover Supper on the 13 of Nissan. It would have worked if Jesus was a Diaspora Jew; but in Israel there is no such a thing.

There is an option in Judaism to celebrate the Passover later, even a month later, if the person was not for some reason ready for it; but NEVER before. It means that, definitely, Jesus missed that Passover celebration, because his reported “Last Supper” did not have anything to do with the Passover Supper.

The gospel writer had either no idea what he was writing about or simply thought we would never find out about his blunder.

Ben

Even the Jewish Rabbi Hillel and another Jewish Rabbi Shammai had different date for the passover.

 

[swariffin]

Can you give us a list of both, then? A list of the evidence that he was married, followed by a list of evidence that he wasn’t/

Dear Kalt, If I follow Ben’s argument, It seems to me that the Jewish kept the record of those who were UNMARRIED rather the one who HAS MARRIED. No wonder he kept on looking for the proof that Jesus did not marry.

 

[swariffin]

**Anyways, Jesus was not an Essene. Jesus was of the same line of the Pharisees. Sorry but you are pasting opinions of people with preconceived notions with the purpose to discard the Jewishness of Jesus.

Ben: **

Jesus was a Pharisee? You must have quoted your Miznah rather than the bible, Ben.

 

[swariffin]

**I promise that I will prove to you that Jesus was not an Essene if you prove to me that he was not married. In fact, can you show me anywhere in the NT a statement that Jesus was NOT married? People who cannot think love to ask for proofs for this or that, but are never able to provide proofs for anything they claim. Now, it’s gonna be thus: Prove to me that Jesus was not married, and I’ll prove to you that he was not Essene.

Ben: **

Jesus was a Jewish, and there must be a record among the Jews about marriages. You must be in the better position to dig Jewish record for Jesus’ marriage. Most of us don’t read nor speak Hebrew. So, you are in the best position to dig for any record from Jewish source saying that Jesus was married. If you are certain of your position, you should be able to dig for one.

 

[swariffin]

**As I can see, you are not talking about a Jewish man called Jesus. Jesus was not the Law; he was under the Law, with the same duty to obey just like any other Jew, and he left that very clear in Matthew 5:17-19. Jesus was not divine. I mean, not as an individual, but as part of the People he belonged to.

Now, regarding being lord of the Sabbath, Jesus was not the only one. We all are lords of the Sabbath. We have all the right to do with it as we please without fear, since the New Covenant was established with the return of the Jews from Babylon. Surprised! Return to me for more explanation if you have got startled with the news.

Ben: **

Why would the Jews during Jesus time cursing Jesus for healing the sicks during Sabbath?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Why would the Jews during Jesus time cursing Jesus for healing the sicks during Sabbath?

**They didn’t. To heal someone on the Sabbath is a more important commandment than to keep the Sabbath. Besides, one does not break the Sabbath for healing on this day. Even religious Jews are allowed to work in hospitals on the Sabbath under the Jewish law of “Pikuach Nephesh.” Perhaps, the Gentiles disciples of Paul who wrote the gospels did not know about this nuances of Jewish practices, and fabricated an accusation against the Jewish leaders.

Ben: **