The Modernist Horror

[KenEOTE]

Ken,

Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, indeed. Our bodies become homes to Jesus Christ, when we receive the Eucharist.

Now, first of all: what the Scripture says it’s not that our bodies are the ONLY temples where Jesus Christ, through the Most Holy Sacrament, makes his residence to stay with us, in this world. In every tabernacle of the world, Jesus is also there, and that makes the temple built to house Him to be holy, too.

The same way you have to make a good confession, to clear all your mortal sins from your soul, to be able to receive Our Lord in the Eucharist, at the Mass, applies to the temple which houses Him. The Scripture (actually, St. Paul says so) and the Church tells us that we cannot receive Our Lord in a state of impurity, in a state of disgrace. It makes sense - when you invite a friend to your home, don’t you clean it up to make sure your friend will be confortable at your home? And if you do so to your human friends, will you dare not doing the same thing to God…?

As I was saying, this logical reasoning can also apply to what we were talking about. God wants a fine temple to be built for Him. The Scripture says so, and even logic says so. If God requires from us to be pure and clean of any mortal sin when we receive Him, will He not require the same order, beauty and dignity in His temple, so that His Glory may be exhalted?

Now, please look at the initial pictures: look at that altar. Do you even see a Cross on it? How can you still think it’s not important? That, my friend, can’t be a Church, like someone has said before you. And I totally agree with that person.

If you have issue with it. Contact the Bishop tell him of your concerns. If people are really that upset about it go to Him he approved it. Better to ask him why he allowed it, then to speculate on this forum about what is going on. The direction this thread is heading we will soon be saying that the Bishop is a free mason or worse and perhaps human sacrifice is taking place.

Thet way I see it, if Europeans are going to Church again that is great, as it is now statiscally Europeans have left the Church and are more secular and humanistic. If this brings them back, then Let God use it to his Glory.

 

[DAPDN]

So, let me see if I got it straight: you use “art” that resembles masonic art and architecture to bring people back to Catholicism…?

 

[KenEOTE]

So, let me see if I got it straight: you use “art” that resembles masonic art and architecture to bring people back to Catholicism…?

I don’t use that, but I do not limit God. He can use all he wants. I have seen people drawn to God through Punk Music. Infact a friend of mine who is a priest now claims he returend to the Church after hearing a “Christian” Punk band.

 

[DAPDN]

Well, yes. But masonic art is anti-catholic and diabolic. Thereby, it can never be used to “bring back people to Catholicism”.

 

[I_Believe]

Someone earlier in this thread asked us how could we make such accusations, and started rising suspicions about how did we get to know how a Masonic Temple or a Synagogue looks like. Maybe now you got your answers.

Some folks just don’t know any better. They only know what they hear from the pulpit. If all they have ever known is contemporary catholicism, then that is naturally what they embrace.

If one has gained an understanding of catholicism from reading the writings of contemporary authors, then it’s to be expected that the writings of someone such as St Alphonsus would scare the Hell out of them. Hopefully. Pun intended

 

[KenEOTE]

Well, yes. But masonic art is anti-catholic and diabolic. Thereby, it can never be used to “bring back people to Catholicism”.

Are we positive that it is masonic art? I give you it is ugly and not my cup of tea. But I want to give the Bishop the benefit of the doubt on this.

 

[I_Believe]

Ken, I’m not familiar with the Bishop in question, nor do I wish to become so. But we do need to know what to look for. Our souls are at stake you know.

Google " The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita". Find a link with the text of this document and judge for yourself.

All is not well.

 

[Jacafamala]

Are you saying that if the only place to attend Mass was that Church you wouldn’t go?

Karen

The only place? God wouldn’t do that to me, would he?:byzsoc: What a horrible penance it would be.

 

[Jacafamala]

Take a hard look at that back drop folks.
Layered pentagrams. skepdic.com/pentagram.html

Take away the bell tower, and the building looks just like the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry Temple here in Louisville.

Yes. And where is the Blessed Mother and St. Joseph. For crying out loud, where’s a crucifix?

 

[KenEOTE]

Ken, I’m not familiar with the Bishop in question, nor do I wish to become so. But we do need to know what to look for. Our souls are at stake you know.

Google " The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita". Find a link with the text of this document and judge for yourself.

All is not well.

Its interesting stuff. But I have faith in Jesus and he said that the gates of hell will nor prevail against his Church. So one church building will not destroy it. In fact a thousand Churches in similar fashion will not stop it. My God is bigger then the Masons and any other force out to stop Him.

My God is bigger then the art or the lack of art, or even ugly art.

 

[LilyM]

Well, yes. But masonic art is anti-catholic and diabolic. Thereby, it can never be used to “bring back people to Catholicism”.

Many people would say exactly the same about punk music - yet we have evidence here that that does bring people back to Catholicism.

Wasn’t St Paul a virulent persecutor of Christians first, then changed heart - basically after God gave him the supernatural equivalent of a slap on the face to wake him up? God can use anything - literally anything - to bring people back to Him.

 

[KenEOTE]

Many people would say exactly the same about punk music - yet we have evidence here that that does bring people back to Catholicism.

Wasn’t St Paul a virulent persecutor of Christians first, then changed heart - basically after God gave him the supernatural equivalent of a slap on the face to wake him up? God can use anything - literally anything - to bring people back to Him.

Well said.

[SIGN]Amen[/SIGN]

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

I just think it is petty to be arguing about a Church Building and whether or not we think it is pretty. There are more important issues. Obviously the Bishop liked it. He approved it, people are going there for services so they must like it. If they didn’t they could go to another congregation.

Ken,

You’re missing all the larger points, I think through no fault of your own. Respectfully, I think your understanding of Catholic faith and the modern Catholic Church has some growing room.

If we had ‘plain’ churches for good reasons - because there wasn’t enough money, for instance - there would be no reason for anyone to have issue, and I really don’t think you’d have anyone making an issue out of it.

But when we have church’s that are “plain”, or worse - devoid of almost all sense of Catholicism, and it’s because certain people want it that way, because they follow the heresy of pluralism to one degree or another, and want to make all religions the same - that’s another thing altogether, and that’s a big problem.

Do you see the difference? Do you agree with me?

 

[KenEOTE]

Ken,

You’re missing all the larger points, I think through no fault of your own. Respectfully, I think your understanding of Catholic faith and the modern Catholic Church has some growing room.

If we had ‘plain’ churches for good reasons - because there wasn’t enough money, for instance - there would be no reason for anyone to have issue, and I really don’t think you’d have anyone making an issue out of it.

But when we have church’s that are “plain”, or worse - devoid of almost all sense of Catholicism, and it’s because certain people want it that way, because they follow the heresy of pluralism to one degree or another, and want to make all religions the same - that’s another thing altogether, and that’s a big problem.

Do you see the difference? Do you agree with me?

I agree with the idea of trying to make all religions the same that is wrong. It is also completely against what Christ said. There is one true faith and that come from Christ alone. The thing is I haven’t read anything by the Bishop that indicated that is what he was trying to do. I went to the site but it is all in Portuguese. If he is doing it directly in defiance that is one thing. But if people just don’t like it because they don’t like that style of art, I find it silly to be angry. Most the post I was reading simply didn’t like the art style and then jumped to Masonic symbols and things like that. I wasn’t seeing anything by the Bishop saying it was to embrace other religions.

 

[I_Believe]

Its interesting stuff. But I have faith in Jesus and he said that the gates of hell will nor prevail against his Church. So one church building will not destroy it. In fact a thousand Churches in similar fashion will not stop it. My God is bigger then the Masons and any other force out to stop Him.

My God is bigger then the art or the lack of art, or even ugly art.

Certainly the gates of hell won’t prevail, but souls can, and have been, be pointed toward the wrong gate. It’s obvious the plan of the freemasons won’t win the war, but it’s won some battles and claimed many souls as it’s prize.

 

[Auntie_M]

I don’t think there’s any sin in disliking the decor of a Catholic Church. One can celebrate Mass on the front of a jeep (I hear it happened a lot in the Army, even pre-VII), so does that mean one must like jeeps?

I didn’t realize Pius IX was being considered for canonization?

 

[Jacafamala]

Truly great art isn’t subjective. There are certain sets of criteria for different forms of art. If these elements are used well, used in a powerful way to make a statement, the work is great.

A piece of art isn’t great because I like it or because someone else likes it. That would be mere sentimentality. There are certain elements, such as line, form, color that all work together to convey a message.

Now with religious art, specifically Roman Catholic art there’s a specific criteria for greatness, too. You can’t just throw throw that criteria out and start from scratch without completely changing the meaning of your message.

Specifically, what’s been thrown out and what been introduced in the horrific Modernist Altar?

A. The Tabernacle
B. The crucifix
C. Statues and artwork depicting the saints.

Without these things, it indeed does appear to be something other than Catholic.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

I agree with the idea of trying to make all religions the same that is wrong. It is also completely against what Christ said. There is one true faith and that come from Christ alone. The thing is I haven’t read anything by the Bishop that indicated that is what he was trying to do. I went to the site but it is all in Portuguese. If he is doing it directly in defiance that is one thing. But if people just don’t like it because they don’t like that style of art, I find it silly to be angry. Most the post I was reading simply didn’t like the art style and then jumped to Masonic symbols and things like that. I wasn’t seeing anything by the Bishop saying it was to embrace other religions.

Ken,

Glad to hear your larger view.

If the bishop, or whomever designed this church, had the attitude some suspect, he’d surely never be public with it. Not completely public, anyway.

I don’t know anything about this particular church, but I do know of one cathedral in the states that has art that looks astonishingly close to masonic symbology - the compass and the square. Knowing the archbishop who designed it (the same one who ignored a direct order from the Pope and destroyed the interior of the old Cathedral), it is not surprising. (It’s subtle, subtle enough that you can’t be sure it’s what it looks like, but if not the similarity is quite a coincidence.)

 

[Jacafamala]

You obviously have not read the early posts which have been totally ignored

No, sweety I had read them. I agree with you. Sorry to be getting back to you so late.

 

[LilyM]

Truly great art isn’t subjective. There are certain sets of criteria for different forms of art. If these elements are used well, used in a powerful way to make a statement, the work is great.

A piece of art isn’t great because I like it or because someone else likes it. That would be mere sentimentality. There are certain elements, such as line, form, color that all work together to convey a message.

Now with religious art, specifically Roman Catholic art there’s a specific criteria for greatness, too. You can’t just throw throw that criteria out and start from scratch without completely changing the meaning of your message.

Really? Truly great art isn’t subjective? And that’s why so many people (learned critics among them) absolutely HATED, with a passion, in their day, the Impressionists and would rather have chewed off their right arms than called their works great art by any set of criteria whatsoever? At exactly the same time as others, who surely knew and were judging, according to your logic, by the same ‘objective’ standard, lauded them from the start?

Heck, there are a lot of people out there who still don’t think much of Picasso, or at least the majority of his works. May very well be some art critics among them for all I know. Certainly those who think little of the artistic merit of his work can’t possibly all be doing so from a position of ignorance of this ‘objective’ standard you allude to.

And please, can someone tell all the people and art critics of Australia who’ve been squabbling over Jackson Pollock’s work ever since our National Gallery bought his Blue Poles for a substantial sum about 35 years ago - do the ‘objective’ criteria prove his work to be great or crud? And pray tell, where can we find a list and explanation of these ‘objective’ criteria, just so we know what they are for future reference?

What about Duchamp’s Pissoir (which is literally just a white enamel urinal)? Andy Warhol’s images of Campbell Soup cans? That Christo artist who has a penchant for wrapping Central Park in fabric?