The moral case for Polygamy

[PRmerger]

Whether I say God “commands” polygamy or God “wants” polygamy, it all boils down to the same thing. God did not explicitly put it in the exact form that you’re expecting, but there is plenty of indication that He wanted polygamy based on the terms of adultery, based on his direct actions and judgements towards polygamists, etc.

One has to wonder why there is such liberal acceptance for Scriptural evidence for God commanding polygamy…and such oh-so-strict acceptance of evidence for God’s existence.

Someone getting pregnant after having sex is about as much proof of God’s endorsement of the act as this is proof for God’s existence:

 

[AgnosticBoy]

The positive arguments for God approving of polygamy usually comes from the Old Testament, and I offered some of these arguments here andhere (the first response about Genesis 29). When it comes to the New Testament, I mostly have negative arguments that I use to show that polygamy was okay and that’s what I’ll go over and defend in this thread.

The main Christian argument against polygamy tends to be based on Matthew 19:3-6, 9. There’s two separate points in their argument:

• The first one is that marriage involves one man and one woman and the two become one flesh (Matthew 19:3-6).
• The second point is that remarriage is not permitted (Matthew 19:9) and this goes against polygamy since it involves remarrying (or a second marriage) while the first wife is still alive.
   
  Summary of my points:
  My position is that polygamy is morally good because God wanted it and acted to facilitate it. I’ve made two positive arguments to defend my case and I’ll briefly restate them below but they are in more detail in post #1 andpost #83 (the first response about Genesis 29).

Positive arguments:

• God is all-good. If a perfectly moral being wants ONE man to love and impregnate TWO women, then that proves that polygamy is morally good. He doesn’t just want monogamy, in other words.
• God came up with adultery, and its terms fit in with a culture that allows polygamy. It did not restrict men in the same way as it did women so this only makes sense in a polygynous context.

I started a new thread here that focuses on polygamy factoring in the New Testament.

 

[Vonsalza]

I’m not sure if you’re objecting to my use of the word “bound”, but I meant it to say that logic is used (no contradictions, etc.) to form doctrines.

I don’t think that’s indubitably true. “Faith” itself is an non-rational construct by definition. At least, certainly not material. It is premised on things that are materially unable to be proofed.

What’s “logical” about the trinity or the divinity of Christ?

The Bible itself would also have to be coherent in order for us to make sense of it.

You’re chatting with Catholics, not protestants. The Church is the source of magisterial teaching. Not scripture directly. Whatever you and I think scripture might “say” is completely secondary to what the Church thinks it says.

I’ll readily confess that there are several portions of scripture that I have substantial difficulty in understanding. Thank God the teaching burden of the Church does not rest on me.

Imagine if the Bible said that the Church is the authority and in another place it said the opposite. Could you honestly claim any truth from that?

In this simple and arbitrary scenario, you’re quite right. Is there an example of this irl?

Now lets get on to addressing my claims about inconsistencies in the Church’s position when it comes to polygamy.

Read: “Now accept my premises as sound and debate me on my terms”.

Respectfully, no.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Summary of my points:
My position is that polygamy is morally good because God wanted it and acted to facilitate it. I’ve made two positive arguments to defend my case and I’ll briefly restate them below but they are in more detail in post #1 and post #83 (the first response about Genesis 29).

Positive arguments:

• God is all-good. If a perfectly moral being wants ONE man to love and impregnate TWO women, then that proves that polygamy is morally good. He doesn’t just want monogamy, in other words.
• God came up with adultery, and its terms fit in with a culture that allows polygamy. It did not restrict men in the same way as it did women so this only makes sense in a polygynous context.

I started a new thread here that focuses on polygamy factoring in the New Testament.

 

[PRmerger]

Summary of my points:
My position is that polygamy is morally good because God wanted it and acted to facilitate it.

Your position comes down to: having sex and getting pregnant means God endorsed the having sex part.

 

[Gorgias]

God directly causes the pregnancy of ALL women, AB.

Wait… wait.

I don’t think you mean what you wrote – or maybe, that you mean something subtly different.

We believe in primary and secondary causation. God caused the creation of the universe (and therefore, the first humans), and humans – as moral agents – cause events to happen. The fact that humans cause an event does not imply either that God directly caused the event nor that God approves of the event.

As you point out, when a baby is conceived in an adulterous relationship, this does not imply that God endorses that relationship or that God caused the pregnancy.

Therefore, AB’s assertion that the events in the Jacob/Leah/Rachel narrative prove that God approves of polygamy is patently false.

However, it also means that your statement which I quoted is itself false. When a couple causes a baby to be conceived, God participates in this act through the creation of an immortal soul. In this way, we cooperate with God in the act of procreation. However, that still doesn’t imply that God necessarily approves of or causes the pregnancy. Rather, having given us the gift of the ability to participate in procreation, He honors His gift when it is utilized by humans.

Therefore, AB’s case falls apart; all we can infer about God’s will, via the pregnancies of Jacob’s wives, is that God willed humans to cooperate in the gift of procreation and that God willed us to have free will in the way we make our choices. Period. Nothing further.

 

[PRmerger]

Wait… wait.

I don’t think you mean what you wrote – or maybe, that you mean something subtly different.

We believe in primary and secondary causation. God caused the creation of the universe (and therefore, the first humans), and humans – as moral agents – cause events to happen. The fact that humans cause an event does not imply either that God directly caused the event nor that God approves of the event.

In the case of pregnancy, humans are co-creators. God is the primary creator.

As you point out, when a baby is conceived in an adulterous relationship, this does not imply that God endorses that relationship or that God caused the pregnancy.

Yep.

Therefore, AB’s assertion that the events in the Jacob/Leah/Rachel narrative prove that God approves of polygamy is patently false.

Clearly.

It raises some great cognitive dissonance indeed to see this being proposed with a straight face.

And then to even say, “Well, yes, when Arnold’s mistress got pregnant, that does mean God endorses adultery too!” is simply delusional.

But it’s what must be embraced if one is going to stick to his original point and run with it.

However, it also means that your statement which I quoted is itself false. When a couple causes a baby to be conceived, God participates in this act through the creation of an immortal soul. In this way, we cooperate with God in the act of procreation. However, that still doesn’t imply that God necessarily approves of or causes the pregnancy. Rather, having given us the gift of the ability to participate in procreation, He honors His gift when it is utilized by humans.

That’s exactly what I am saying.

Therefore, AB’s case falls apart; all we can infer about God’s will, via the pregnancies of Jacob’s wives, is that God willed humans to cooperate in the gift of procreation and that God willed us to have free will in the way we make our choices. Period. Nothing further.

QED

 

[Lion_IRC]

A man desires his wife.
If that man desires a second wife he is committing adultery in his heart.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not covet another man’s wife.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I will repeat it here since Agnostic Boy didn’t like it on his NT Polygamy thread. God’s intent was for monogamy.

That is why he created Adam and Eve as partners and helpmates. He did not create Adam and Eve and Kate and Molly, or Eve and Adam and George and Michael.