The morality of allowing Syrian refugees into the USA

  • Thread starter Thread starter AFerri48
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Brendan said:
I agree that is a great long term goal. But it would be several years before that goal is reached.

Are those widows and children not entitled to a safe environment, food, water and medical care?

Read Matthew 25. Which way do you want Christ to judge your actions? Do we deny them, and in doing so, deny Christ?
Click to expand...
YinYangMom said:
Right. There seems to be a disconnect between those who are clamoring to have this be a Christian nation, and their choices in which Christian principles to apply. We either have faith and trust in our Lord, and follow his teachings, or we don’t. Can’t have it both ways. If we pick and choose, this is where we becoming vulnerable.
Click to expand...
I think at this point these are strawman arguments. No one here is suggesting doing nothing to help the refugees.
 
St_Francis said:
I think at this point these are strawman arguments. No one here is suggesting doing nothing to help the refugees.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It is our Christian duty to help. We are not required to place our families and our nation in danger to do that.

The US is in a bad spot. If we house them here we are opening ourselves up to unimaginable horror. That is not in any way an exaggeration either. If we instead send help to them we will be vilified for that decision as well. No matter what we do we will be wrong.

Deployments are coming up for many of us. I really don’t want to be sitting here alone with my kids when ISIS shows up. Yes, I think they are here already just patiently waiting for the right time. We need to make sure that right time doesn’t happen. We do not need to increase their numbers. ISIS has a hit list with names and addresses. They are not just showing off with that. This is real.

People need to get their heads out of the sand and look around at the world today without relying on the opinions of “experts” and journalists that distort reality. There are reasons that the majority of the refugees are males within the “fighting age”. Women and children are also known to fight with/for ISIS and volunteer themselves as suicide bombers as well. This is not the type of enemy we are accustomed to.

Yes, my heart breaks for them, but it breaks much more for the Middle Eastern Christians because that is what ISIS envisions for us all.
 
The virtues don’t work in a vacuum. Virtues inform and edify one another.

We have a moral obligation to help those who need it. We also are called to be prudent. Like so many issues in the Christian life, we run into confusion when we try to force one virtue over a situation out of context with the others. The virtues are not either/or they are both/and. If we are prudent out of context with compassion, prudence turns to fear and negligence, and lack of action. That is not prudence then, it is fear.
If we are compassionate without thinking, then we may not really be compassionate.

We can help refugees, and we should do it prudently.
 
Rau said:
The majority of Refugees - in refugee camps - are fighting age males? Do you have a source for that?
Click to expand...
I think it’s a Trueism that being a young man is a really dangerous thing to be in many circumstances. Young men who don’t want to fight are understandably refugees. This debate is moot really because moral and legally we are required to shelter refugees. And America has a huge number of people whose forebears sought economic refuge or refuge from war in Europe. So now their children are happy to ‘pull the ladder up’ and say America is full up. The narrative about Catholics (Irish one in particular) was the same as this in the 1970/80s. There were missed opportunities to save Jews in the 1930s. Those people who are unaware of their history are sadly condemned to repeat it
 
Rau said:
The majority of Refugees - in refugee camps - are fighting age males? Do you have a source for that?
Click to expand...
Not one I can post, but yes I do.

Look at the migrants claiming to be refugees. There is enough proof if people are willing to just look for themselves.
 
JimmyG88 said:
I think it’s a Trueism that being a young man is a really dangerous thing to be in many circumstances. Young men who don’t want to fight are understandably refugees. This debate is moot really because moral and legally we are required to shelter refugees. And America has a huge number of people whose forebears sought economic refuge or refuge from war in Europe. So now their children are happy to ‘pull the ladder up’ and say America is full up. The narrative about Catholics (Irish one in particular) was the same as this in the 1970/80s. There were missed opportunities to save Jews in the 1930s. Those people who are unaware of their history are sadly condemned to repeat it
Click to expand...
What happened to the Jews was bad. They had a place to go (what is now called Israel) but the British (who at the point held the mandate) would not let them go there, and we would not let them come here.

However, there are several differences: 1. the Syrian refugees have places to go, and would have more places to go if the nearby nations did what they ought to do–the Jews in WW2 had no place to go; 2. ISIS has said that they were sending terrorists using the refugees as a smokescreen–this did not happen with the Jews in WW2; and 3. the Jews were more demographically in need: women and children formed an appropriate amount of those seeking refuge, while we now have huge numbers mostly consisting of young men, many of whom are not actually from the war zone.**
** Out of over 210,000 refugees entering in the 2nd quarter 2015, only 44,000 are from Syria
 
St_Francis said:
What happened to the Jews was bad. They had a place to go (what is now called Israel) but the British (who at the point held the mandate) would not let them go there, and we would not let them come here.

However, there are several differences: 1. the Syrian refugees have places to go, and would have more places to go if the nearby nations did what they ought to do–the Jews in WW2 had no place to go; 2. ISIS has said that they were sending terrorists using the refugees as a smokescreen–this did not happen with the Jews in WW2; and 3. the Jews were more demographically in need: women and children formed an appropriate amount of those seeking refuge, while we now have huge numbers mostly consisting of young men, many of whom are not actually from the war zone.**
** Out of over 210,000 refugees entering in the 2nd quarter 2015, only 44,000 are from Syria
Click to expand...

I assume you are aware of the millions that have been taken in by Germany,Italy and Sweden? A refugee crisis is global responsibility. Not just nearby nations. Particularly nations involved in military action in the Levant. I understand why young men choose to flee ISIS I would! Their gender or youth should preclude assistance. Having the correct demographic balance isn’t a prerequisite to fulfilling legal land moral responsibilities. I know only a few Syrians but have always found them quite charming
 
JimmyG88 said:
I think it’s a Trueism that being a young man is a really dangerous thing to be in many circumstances. Young men who don’t want to fight are understandably refugees. This debate is moot really because moral and legally we are required to shelter refugees. And America has a huge number of people whose forebears sought economic refuge or refuge from war in Europe. So now their children are happy to ‘pull the ladder up’ and say America is full up. The narrative about Catholics (Irish one in particular) was the same as this in the 1970/80s. There were missed opportunities to save Jews in the 1930s. Those people who are unaware of their history are sadly condemned to repeat it
Click to expand...
Women and children tend to flee threats to life and limb also. 🤷
 
JimmyG88 said:
Yes they do. Can you perhaps be explicit in what you want to say I’m not sure what your point is
Click to expand...
Bitterhope’s assertion above about the makeup of refugee camp populations is without foundation.
 
The problem is there is no way to assure that these people are really looking for refuge. The Christians are in much greater need, yet they are not the ones migrating in huge numbers. They are being slaughtered instead. They are wiping out Christians from the Middle East, and once that happens they will push to continue their manifest dynasty across the globe.
 
bitterhope said:
The problem is there is no way to assure that these people are really looking for refuge. The Christians are in much greater need, yet they are not the ones migrating in huge numbers. They are being slaughtered instead. They are wiping out Christians from the Middle East, and once that happens they will push to continue their manifest dynasty across the globe.
Click to expand...
Some of them may be economic migrants but I myself am an economic migrant.
 
JimmyG88 said:
I assume you are aware of the millions that have been taken in by Germany,Italy and Sweden?
Click to expand...
I am not sure which set of numbers you are talking about. Do you have a link?
A refugee crisis is global responsibility. Not just nearby nations. Particularly nations involved in military action in the Levant.
Click to expand...
Yes, a global responsibility–maybe the Gulf states, which are more similar in language and culture, should take in refugees as well. (If you wonder why they don’t, here’s a 58-second video explaining why not. At the time, the Gulf states together had given about $8M, about $200/refugee in the ME.)

All the nations should help. Maybe states with a lot of Arabic speakers could help vet the refugees so that it would be safer for us to take fhem in? And in the meantime, we can provide more financial support.
I understand why young men choose to flee ISIS I would! Their gender or youth should [not?] preclude assistance. Having the correct demographic balance isn’t a prerequisite to fulfilling legal land moral responsibilities.
Click to expand...
But doesn’t a disproportionate number of young men invite the question, why? Why would a young man leave his family without his protection in the war-torn nation he is trying to escape? What is he leaving his family behind to face? Because from what we hear here, it doesn’t sound good.
I know only a few Syrians but have always found them quite charming
Click to expand...
I have met many people from the ME who were very nice. I have also read accounts of how people who did horrendous things were viewed before they did those things. Sometimes the reaction was, I’m not surprised, he was always weird; but others, Ted Bundy comes to mind, were viewed as charming as well.
 
St_Francis said:
I am not sure which set of numbers you are talking about. Do you have a link?

Yes, a global responsibility–maybe the Gulf states, which are more similar in language and culture, should take in refugees as well. (If you wonder why they don’t, here’s a 58-video explaining why not. At the time, the Gulf states together had given about $8M, about $200/refugee in the ME.)

All the nations should help. Maybe states with a lot of Arabic speakers could help vet the refugees so that it would be safer for us to take fhem in? And in the meantime, we can provide more financial support.

But doesn’t a disproportionate number of young men invite the question, why? Why would a young man leave his family without his protection in the war-torn nation he is trying to escape? What is he leaving his family behind to face? Because from what we hear here, it doesn’t sound good.

I have met many people from the ME who were very nice. I have also read accounts of how people who did horrendous things were viewed before they did those things. Sometimes the reaction was, I’m not surprised, he was always weird; but others, Ted Bundy comes to mind, were viewed as charming as well.
Click to expand...
So you don’t want them in your back yard
 
JimmyG88 said:
So you don’t want them in your back yard
Click to expand...
I think you ought to stop using trite and unhelpful colloquialisms as if they were good arguments.

Whenever you are asked to look deeper into an issue and consider other factors, you deflect.

Do you have anything substantial to add or are you happy using rhetorical slogans when important decisions need to be made?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top