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why_me
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Of course if we think this way through, wouldn’t it be wonderful if more women had the freedom to be stay at home moms? I do think that society would not be worse off.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Of course I think it is wonderful for a woman to be able to choose her path, and not be made to feel unworthy of God’s love for choosing a career.
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dianaiad
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dianaiad
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I was very fortunate. I COULD stay home with my children for the first 10 years. For the second ten years of my marriage, however, I worked outside the home…I had to. My husband was ill, and then he was very ill…and then he was dying. After he died, of course, there was absolutely no choice.
I can certainly see the difference in my children, from when I could be with them and teach them, and when my husband was the ‘house husband,’ (and my children were EXTREMELY blessed to have had him home with them!) and when he was dying and I was working…and then when I was the modern sort of 'single mother."
I would much rather have been able to stay home. I do not see that my staying home was any sort of lesser role; far from it. I’m with the church on this one; if you don’t HAVE to work outside the home while the children are young, you shouldn’t do so. ONE of you, wife or husband, should be home. A whole host of societal problems would be solved if that could happen.
And frankly, those women who put their own careers and wants ahead of their children should…not have children. Personally, I don’t care which one of the parents stays home, but ONE of them needs to, if it is at all possible. We can see from the world around us that leaving the government, day care centers and the schools to raise our children is not working out all that well.
…and y’know what? I don’t care HOW much money you earn, or how much acclaim you garner, or how many medals you win, or how many books are written about you; if you fail your children---------you fail.
Period.
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KathleenGee
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Dianaid,
I Agree 100%
Kathleen
I Agree 100%
Kathleen
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dianaiad
Guest
Any woman who chooses a career over the wellbeing of her children is unworthy. In fact, it’s one of the worst things a woman can do. It’s one of the worst things that a MAN can do. If a man and a wife decide to have children, then they are making a commitment that is far more important than any career choice either one of them can make. ONE of them needs to stay home, at least for awhile. If neither one is willing to do this, then get a puppy…preferably a battery operated one, since puppies need care, too.
Biology pretty much dictates which one of the parents is better equipped to stay home with infants, so the career interuption is pretty much a given for her no matter what happens. It seems to me, then, that what is needed is not some modern feminist clap trap about how we should ignore this and make women do everything men do PLUS everything women do, but rather to take advantage of this biological hiatus that women who bear children are forced into. More education. Other talents expressed and developed.
Men can have careers and children, no problem. Why? Because they have wives. Men without wives who have to rear children find out very rapidly that a ‘wife’ is a necessity. Yet women are expected to have careers and children and NOT have to have the help at home that men are automatically assumed to require…and why is that?
Do women nowdays have any sort of choice in this? Not so much, no. The "just a housewife’ syndrome remains alive and well, and it’s IDIOCY. The attitude here is a blazing reminder of that.
The CoJCoLDS is RIGHT about this; the mother should be home. With her children. If SHE can’t, then HE should be. If this is not possible, it is seen as unfortunate, because a mother’s place in the home is NOT lesser. It is NOT inferior. In fact, given the ultimate goal and results, her role in the home is a lot more important than his is. After all, he can go earn a living in thousands of different ways, and if he fails at one job, he can try another. If a woman fails at raising her children, where is there another ‘job’ for her?
Why does society…and by extension some of the posters here…think that raising children and keeping a home is a shameful, inferior calling? I mean, really…my husband, bless him, worked at Lockheed; the 'Skunk Works." his work was classified and vital to the nation’s security. He helped build the stealth fighter, etc.
My father developed the fuel that got us to the moon.
My brother in law was in the military and is now a successful engineer.
My sons drive trucks.
My uncle was a ‘force’ in the church education system, beginning and running many seminaries and church schools all over the world.
I’m sure that any and all of you men have careers equally important, at least to you. Do ANY of them seem more important than the lives, health, happiness and education of the least promising of any of your children?
Is it REALLY better for a woman to be a secretary than it is for her to be home with her children?
WHY?
And why is it so horrible that a church recognizes the talents, intelligence and purpose of women, understanding that a woman’s role is vital—but nowhere MORE vital than in the raising of her children and the keeping together of her family and her home?
Again, if anybody’s career is more important to him or her than these things, s/he should…get a puppy. Keep cats. Feed birds—but don’t have children.
And this looking down the nose at women who DO stay home should…just stop. and Rebecca, it’s one thing to have to work because there is no choice; that happens to many, many people. It’s quite another to decide that one’s own selfish goals are more important than the family one has committed to, and just say “Not!..”
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RebeccaJ
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False dichotomy.
I did both and both career and child turned out just fine. I know many women who have done the same.
Neither are a sin that separate me from God. That is just your opinion.
That aside, discerning these choices is up to the individual, her spouse and her family. Not some outsider demanding all women stop working immediately.
I never looked down at anyone. I’d say the looking down is coming from you.
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KathleenGee
Guest
My sister-in-law has two children and has always worked. She was valedictorian of her class. Her son and daughter attended the city public school for genius and gifted children, and very well behaved.
I know of several other women who did the same.
There are exceptions to every rule, and I am sure, Rebecca you were one of those as well!!
I know of several other women who did the same.
There are exceptions to every rule, and I am sure, Rebecca you were one of those as well!!
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RebeccaJ
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By far the majority of parents in any culture will seek the well being of their children. Mormons don’t seem to believe this about anyone but themselves.I learned at a early age no one was going to be taking care of me but me. This reality, where the floor could fall out from under me at any moment and I am left with no roof over my head or something to eat, was a great driver to securing my own means of income, and keeping it.
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dianaiad
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The only false dichotomy here is the one you set up by presenting the church’s position as “women have no place OTHER than the home, and every woman should stop working, come home and be their husband’s slave…” …and that IS the dichotomy you were setting up.
Yes, many have, including me. However, it was HARD, and I would have much preferred to stay home. You were presenting things, especially your own decision, as if you had a choice in the matter and you deliberately thumbed your nose at the entire idea, putting your career ahead of everything else. THAT is what your throw away ‘not!’ was about, y’know…because what the church was asking was that women put their families ahead of their careers.
Come to think of it, the church wants MEN to put their families ahead of their careers. However, your flippant presentation of your version of what the church wanted, and your dismissal of the whole idea simply screams “ME FIRST.”
Which of course is fine–unless there are kids involved.
Let’s see…selfishness, the wish to put one’s own career above that of one’s family in the chase for material goods or fame…doesn’t that add up to pride and greed, with a little extravagance and vainglory mixed in? Aren’t those four of the seven deadlies?
You are right, it IS my opinion that putting one’s career (whether the man or the woman does this) above one’s children and family obligations is a sin that separates one from God. It is, I have noticed, an opinion that is shared by quite a few people, Catholic clergy included.
Now THAT is the false dichotomy…since that isn’t what the church, or any church leader, asked for. They DID ask that the women who COULD do so, and who could manage their households without their personal working income, come home if they have children, but that is a very different situation.
It’s also one I heartily agree with. However, not all women can. Or, some women are better working and hubby should stay home. Either way, if it is possible to live on one income, then one SHOULD live on one income…or at least figure out a way so that one is home when the kids are.
That is not the impression I’m getting from you. You are looking very much down at the LDS women who listened to their leaders and came home. That is extremely obvious.
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RebeccaJ
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Diana, I said:
“zaff…yeah I was just starting my career when mormon women were told to go home. I said: NOT!”
Tell me where in that statement I said anything about the choices other women make.
I think you are having a problem seeing that what I do for myself does not reflect what I feel about other people.
“zaff…yeah I was just starting my career when mormon women were told to go home. I said: NOT!”
Tell me where in that statement I said anything about the choices other women make.
I think you are having a problem seeing that what I do for myself does not reflect what I feel about other people.
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dianaiad
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Really? That’s quite a generality. Just because we believe that someone in the family should stay home with the kids? Wow.
…and that, Rebecca, is an entirely different matter altogether, having to do with trust issues and your own view of family. You didn’t trust your husband to take care of your family and of you. That’s unfortunate, and unhappy–and perhaps you had reason to not trust him. I have no idea.
But it has no relationship to your incredibly dismissive reaction to the LDS church position that a family is a unit, and that (and this considerably after you had LEFT the church, mind you…) you dismissed with disdain the call from the church leaders to have women (and their husbands) put their families first.
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dianaiad
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Given that at the time you weren’t even LDS…or were very much in the process of leaving, and were not happy about having BEEN LDS, then it was nothing else BUT a criticism of the choices other women were making. After all, you certainly weren’t thinking that you were a 'mormon woman," were you?
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RebeccaJ
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No, I say this because of what you said about working women in your post.
…and the judgmental attitude continues.
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RebeccaJ
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You’re just making stuff up.
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dianaiad
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Indeed it does. The question, of course, is which one of us is doing the judging? Remember, I’m not the one who had to make the drive by 'NOT!.."
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dianaiad
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Rebecca, you have told your story here fairly often. Unless you were ‘beginning your career’ at the tender age of 16, when you tell us you were (at least privately…) leaving the church, then I’m not making a thing up.
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RebeccaJ
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Diana, rather than telling me what my experiences were/are, you could just ask. You know? You haven’t, but yes, I did start working at 16 and haven’t stopped since. But that is not the point at all. If you even thought about leaving mormonism for one second, it wouldn’t take you long to realize that it is not as simple as turning off a light. When I heard that talk I believed it was someone telling me what to do. Today, no, I don’t believe this.
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RebeccaJ
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Diana, I have said nothing but what I judged for myself. You are the one that has gone off on very long pontifications about how awful working mothers are.
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zaffiroborant
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