The Most revered woman in History- But not by Protestants

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

chuckfrmvalyfrg;8699445:

Ha, I was puzzled by your user name, Chuck, wondering if the last part was Welsh, given all the Welsh place names outside Philly, and the unusual spelling common in Welsh. But, I got it…you’re from the place where General Washington and the troops spent a cold, hard winter during the American Revolution, right?

You would be correct . There usually is space for only a limited number of characters . My user name coupled with my location description should put 2 and 2 together .

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

I would have to say that all of the people I know, Catholic or not, never has referred to Mary (in my presence) with those titles or adjectives attached but refer to her simply by her name when having discussion. I’m not saying they never do or that people don’t consider her “blessed” or “full of grace”, etc. but it’s simply that many people just don’t normally talk that way. I only hear these terms used on Catholic radio, television, print, services or these boards but not out of people’s mouths. Simply put, just because someone does not say these things does not mean they are consciously denying those virtures of Mary…it’s that they don’t talk like that.

Really ? You’ve never heard a Catholic refer to Mary in your presence as the " Blessed Virgin Mary " ? You NEVER ACTUALLY SAY IT , BUT YOU STILL BELIEVE IT ? That doesn’t even pass the " laugh test " ! If they NEVER say it , WHY should I think they believe it ? Why don’t you just admit that many Protestants would choke on those words , it would be more accurate ? How can you VALIDATE the attributes of Mary you mentioned above by remaining PERPETUALLY SILENT about them ?

Is Mary the mother of Christ ?
Is Mary the Mother of the Church ?
But she’s just Mary to you ?
By the way , those words also came out of Gabriel’s and Elizabeth’s mouths , why don’t they come out of so many Protestant mouths ?

 

[Publisher]

America has fully embraced Jacobin equality. Now we are all thoroughly equal. Not that long ago we referred to strangers by their last name. Now some young kid I dont know thinks he has the right to call me by my first name as if we are friends.

Of course that idea of equality is against Chrsitian teaching. There are betters in this world. I believe the lack of honor we show to our fellow man translates to a lack of honor shown to God. The practice of recognizing other men formerly helps us to understand the respect God deservers which is infinitelly greater. I think we should call strangers Mr. or Mrs. I think we should call our elders that as well. I think we should call our pastors by their last name and not ‘Pastor Jim’. I think we should refer to Apostles and other great Christians as St. I practice that myself. I have to admit that in my church giving a title to Mary would be unusual. But there is no reason it should be and if I had to guess is simply the result of atttempting to distance ourselves from Catholicism. We would have been wrong in doing so.

As a Friend…I typically do not use titles…and the youngest in our Meeting calls the oldest by first name…or Friend Irene or Friend Mark…doesn’t matter how old they are…WE ARE FAMILY…WE ARE BROTHERS AND SISTERS…as Friends we are on a first name basis…

 

[Cat]

Who said I’m using the test to determine reverence? Did you actually read what I said? It’s quite easy for me to tell someone’s religious convictions by their manner of speaking, and until I find a person who discusses religion with other religious folk without ever using reverential titles and is still obviously of that conviction, I’ll keep my observations. Are you saying you go through entire discussions of Mary without EVER employing a respectful title or one that betrays (makes obvious/plain) your convictions about her? Even Mother of God?

Here is what you said: “A person who never refers to Christ as The Lord or Our Lord, The/Our Savior, The/Our Redeemer etc strikes me as either a non-Christian or if Christian, a non-Orthodox one. One who never refers to Our Lady as our Lady, the Mother of God, St. Mary, Theotokos, Our Blessed Mother, The Blessed Virgin etc- and is fond of referring to the Saints without the St. or Blessed pre-fix before the Saint’s name cannot convince me they are Catholic or Orthodox- at least not “orthodox” members of the churches.”

What I am hearing you say is that if someone does not refer to the Mary by a “title,” e.g., Our Lady, then you are not convinced that they are really Catholic.

Is this not what you mean? Are you not establishing a “test” of somone’s Catholicism?

As for my inference about “reverence,” this entire thread is about the perception that Protestants do not have reverence or respect for Mary, but only Catholics, the Orthodox, and Muslims have reverence for Mary.

 

[TimothyH]

“Incubator for Christ” is on a par with " God’s broodmare " . Do your Protestant friends think Mary had free-will and was able to choose ?
How do/would your Proteastant friends respond when you asked them , " why don’t you show Mary the same respect that Gabriel , Elizabeth and Jesus did " ? Do they think Gabriel , Elizabeth and Jesus got it wrong ?
How often do they call Mary , " Blessed " ?

Preachin’ to the chior my friend.

-Tim-

 

[Cat]

I don’t think she said anything of the kind Cat.
In your zeal to defend evangelicals you are, once again, overreacting.

Here is the quote: “A person who never refers to Christ as The Lord or Our Lord, The/Our Savior, The/Our Redeemer etc strikes me as either a non-Christian or if Christian, a non-Orthodox one. One who never refers to Our Lady as our Lady, the Mother of God, St. Mary, Theotokos, Our Blessed Mother, The Blessed Virgin etc- and is fond of referring to the Saints without the St. or Blessed pre-fix before the Saint’s name cannot convince me they are Catholic or Orthodox- at least not “orthodox” members of the churches.”

In other words, someone who consistently merely says “Jesus” instead of using a title is either a non-Christian or a “non-orthodox” one.

Or, if I consistently fail to use the phrase, “Blessed Mother” or “Our Lady” in a conversation, then the OP will question my Catholicism.

Do you think I have misinterpreted what the OP has clearly stated? What do you think the OP is saying here?

And do you think it is overreacting for me to insist that it is not appropriate for us, mere humans, to establish a “test” to determine whether someone is Christian or Catholic?

If the Catholic Church has welcomed someone into the Church, then that person is Catholic, and there is no additional “test.”

 

[eo_chibears]

This is a bonafide fact, thanks to Catholics, Orthodox and even Muslims! Who honor the mother of Christ among all women, a little fact that I find very interesting considering the words of the Archangel, st. Elizabeth and the Virgin herself under the influence of the Holy Spirit.

How do the protestants who constantly rail against this woman square that attitude with God’s proclamation and prophecy about her and its amazing fulfillment among Catholics and Orthodox (even Muslims!) better than the vast majority of Protestant Christians?

I don’t hear many railing against her. That is not the case where I live anyway.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Come on, that’s not fair, Jharek—I think many here know the truth: that all Protestants can never agree on anything among themselves, splitting into 33,000+ bickering denominations over disagreements on what day of the week it is…and some here know this fact, too: when something negative is attributed to Protestants then that is the right time to place us in a homogeneous set.

(cough, cough—double standard—cough, cough)

 

[Marybeloved]

Here’s the confusion that you introduce to my statements. You note this:

Here is what you (Marybeloved) said: “A person who never refers to Christ as The Lord or Our Lord, The/Our Savior, The/Our Redeemer etc strikes me as either a non-Christian or if Christian, a non-Orthodox one. One who never refers to Our Lady as our Lady, the Mother of God, St. Mary, Theotokos, Our Blessed Mother, The Blessed Virgin etc- and is fond of referring to the Saints without the St. or Blessed pre-fix before the Saint’s name cannot convince me they are Catholic or Orthodox- at least not “orthodox” members of the churches.”

But here is how you are choosing to interpret it

What I am hearing you say is that if someone does not refer to the Mary by a “title,” e.g., Our Lady, then you are not convinced that they are really Catholic.

You should actually attempt to slow down and read and understand what someone is saying before jumping to your own blanket statements which you’re accusing others of!

Is this not what you mean? Are you not establishing a “test” of somone’s Catholicism?

I most certainly am not! I’m establishing a test (my own, mind you) for whether or not someone is being honest with me about what what they present as their religious conviction- especially when they are make statements that do not conform with the orthodox positions of those religions.

As for my inference about “reverence,” this entire thread is about the perception that Protestants do not have reverence or respect for Mary, but only Catholics, the Orthodox, and Muslims have reverence for Mary.

So that gives you the right to take a particular statement out of the context of the exact conversation going on and impose a false meaning to it? You are the only one I see making sweeping generalizations when the statements are right in front of you in black and white- you just assume the meaning before you read, that’s all.

 

[Cat]

Here’s the confusion that you introduce to my statements. You note this:But here is how you are choosing to interpret it
You should actually attempt to slow down and read and understand what someone is saying before jumping to your own blanket statements which you’re accusing others of! I most certainly am not! I’m establishing a test (my own, mind you) for whether or not someone is being honest with me about what what they present as their religious conviction- especially when they are make statements that do not conform with the orthodox positions of those religions.
So that gives you the right to take a particular statement out of the context of the exact conversation going on and impose a false meaning to it? You are the only one I see making sweeping generalizations when the statements are right in front of you in black and white- you just assume the meaning before you read, that’s all.

Forgive me for offending you by disagreeing with you. Generally speaking, there will be disagreements in conversation, but I am sorry that my differences with your statements are upsetting to you.

I think you are splitting hairs.

I have suggested that you are establishing a test as to whether someone is really Catholic.

You deny this emphatically, and insist that you are “establishing a test (my own, mind you) for whether or not someone is being honest with me about what what they present as their religious conviction- especially when they are make statements that do not conform with the orthodox positions of those religions.”

To me, that’s establishing a test of someone’s Catholicism. I fail the see the difference in what I am saying and what you are saying.

I do not seem to be able to understand anything you are writing, or communicate with you in a way that edifies both of us. I’m sorry for my lack of ability to thoroughly understand your posts.

“So that gives you the right to take a particular statement out of the context of the exact conversation going on and impose a false meaning to it? You are the only one I see making sweeping generalizations when the statements are right in front of you in black and white- you just assume the meaning before you read, that’s all”

All of us have the right to join in the conversation on CAF. I have a right to respond to your posts, and you have a right to respond to my posts. You can respond in a kind-hearted way, or you can respond in a hurtful way.

I think it would be best if I didn’t respond to your posts anymore, as I keep misinterpreting what you are saying, and I am feeling increasingly like a stupid, ignorant fool because I don’t seem to be able to read “the statements right in front of me in black and white.”

Good luck to you as you attempt to convince Protestants that they are wrong about Mary. I hope you will build many bridges between Catholics and our separated brothers and sisters.

 

[TrueLight]

I refer to the King of Kings as:

Jesus
My Savior
My Lord
My God
Christ
Lord of Lords

And other titles, I don’t have time to put down.

When I call our Lord, “Jesus”, which the name which is above all names, I am not being disrespectful, nor does it imply I am somehow lacking in faith or spirituality.

Notice in the Gospels, you don’t see an honorific every time the name Jesus is mentioned.

Just saying’.