The Mother of God

[EA_Man]

Palatine:

Just a question, do you ask your friends to pray for you for anything?

I sure do, and I thank God for their prayers.

My turn: Do you have any Scripture that advocates petitioning the departed for assistance? Do you have any Scripture that says that communicating with the dead is recommended? How about that recommend or exhort us to ask Mary for assistance?

If so, please provide them.

Out of the 21 Epistles written by the Apostles, how many of them mention Mary at all? The answer is zero.

The last words of Mary recorded in Scripture are in John 2:5. What does she say? “His mother said to the servants, ‘Do whatever he tells you.’” Good advice.

On these forums I have had people tell me that we can “prove” Petrine Primacy not only by Matthew 16:15-19 or by John 21:17-19 but also by such loose reasoning as “he was the only disciple to walk on water” or that Jesus chose Peter’s boat to teach from in Luke 5. If that is true, then what can we deduce from the fact that not once in the entire New Testament is there an admonition or command to ask Mary or any other departed saint to intervene for us?

Let’s look at Matthew 17:5. What does that say?
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

Hmmm…God says (commands us) to listen to Jesus. Does Jesus tell us to pray to Mary? Ahh, nope. In fact, He asks a very interesting question.

Matthew 15:3
And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

Good question.

 

[Mickey]

EA_Man:

I could have just as easily or even more easily recognized the validity of my infant Baptism, though I do not subscribe to baptismal regeneration.

Pity.

EA_Man:

You are incorrectly citing a figure from the World Christian Encyclopedia. According to that source, the Roman Catholic Church has over 200 denominations. Are you endorsing that figure as well? Do you even know how the author, David Barrett has arrived at his figures?
See Here:

Oh man, you anti-Catholics crack me up. I’ve heard that one at least one hundred times. I’d love to start listing the different protestant denoms, but I have not the time nor the desire. Can you list the different Catholic denoms–or would you start counting local parishes and the Eastern Rites. I didn’t read your link because I scrolled down real fast to see who wrote it, and when I saw it was Mr. anti-Catholic himself, I had to chuckle. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_210.gif Check out this link. bringyou.to/apologetics/a120.htm

EA_Man:

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

Matthew 15:3, 6
And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?..You have nullified the word of God, for the sake of your tradition"

traditions of men is not the same as Sacred Tradition and you know it. Nice try though. I’ve seen that A/C response many times too.

EA_Man:

Lastly, you never addressed my claim: that it is unnecessary to petition Mary and the saints for intercession in order for God to hear our prayers. See Post #56

There are dozens of threads on this forum regarding this very subject. Check it out–you might get that catechism lesson that you missed.

EA_Man:

For example, some fathers (e.g., Augustine) supported the Old Testament Apocrypha while others (e.g., Jerome and Origen) opposed it. Some great teachers (e.g., Aquinas) opposed the Immaculate Conception of Mary while others (e.g., Scotus) favored it. Some fathers opposed sola Scriptura, but others favored it.

Man, you are a walking cliche! You are not the first to state this. If I ask you for quotes, you’ll quote some church fathers out of context, and I assure you I will provide the proper context and refutation from that same church father. I have thousands of files. But of course this has already been covered on other threads also.

EA_Man:

Now this very fact makes it impossible to trust tradition in any authoritative sense. For the question always arises: which of the contradictory traditions (teachings) should be accepted? To say, “The one pronounced authoritative by the church” is begging the question, since the infallibility of tradition is a necessary link in the argument for the very doctrine of the infallible authority of the church. Thus this infallibility should be provable without appealing to the Magisterium. The fact is that there are so many contradictory traditions that tradition, as such, is rendered unreliable as an authoritative source of dogma.

Circular reasoning–sounds like Van Til.

I love to have charitable discussion with most protestants. My best friend is baptist and we have a blast. But A/C’s such as yourself I can’t quite understand. And 99.9% of the time the Catholic basher used to be Catholic. I have two theories.

1. You are so insecure about your new belief system that you need to vent. You need to prove to yourself that Catholicism is wrong, by joining a Catholic forum and bashing everyone. Even if your argument is weak, you might still make gains with good debating skills.
2. You sincerely believe whatever it is you believe, and you are here to save Catholic souls–to prosyletize. In which case you’ll be suspended quickly.

 

[Palatine]

EA_Man:

I sure do, and I thank God for their prayers.

Waiit a sec there. Why? I mean, if you can go directly to God, why even bother asking your friends to pray for you? Does asking more people make your prayer mighter, is there more of a chance that He’ll listen? I mean, you bash Catholics for asking prayers of those in Heaven, yet you go and ask prayers of your fellow living imperfect human beings…I just don’t get the difference.

EA_Man:

My turn: Do you have any Scripture that advocates petitioning the departed for assistance? Do you have any Scripture that says that communicating with the dead is recommended? How about that recommend or exhort us to ask Mary for assistance?

Ok, I see. it’s because we’re asking “dead” people. Man, that sucks, you mean that all my friend who I thought were going to Heaven are actually dead? Heaven must be some boring place then, huh? Isn’t our God the God of the living, not the dead?

Actually, I think Scripture condemns communication with the dead. Good thing the saints are alive in Christ!

I’m not as well versed in Scripture as I want to be yet, so I can’t jump to the call. I do know that in Revelation, an angel offers up a bowl of incense which is the prayers of the saints (which, if I’m correct, are already all in Heaven by this point in the game). I do know Paul exorts many of his fellow Christians to pray for him. (In fact, there is even a verse where he asks someone to pray for him, because THAT PARTICULAR person’s prayers will deliever Paul to him, the first patron saint, maybe? I’ll try and find the exact verse for the next time). It is the communion of the saints man, just because someone has passed from this world doesn’t mean they stop being our brothers and sisters in Christ, in fact, they become stronger brothers and sisters when they can pray for us in God’s presence! Crazy cool, huh?

There are no particular verses that tell us to ask for Mary’s assistance, because as you astutely pointed out, Mary’s name is not mentioned in the NT letters

EA_Man:

The last words of Mary recorded in Scripture are in John 2:5. What does she say? “His mother said to the servants, ‘Do whatever he tells you.’” Good advice.

Dude! That is actually Mary’s first intercessory prayer! Mary says to Jesus “They’re out of wine.” Jesus says, “so what?” Mary gives him that motherly stare, and Jesus says, “fine, go fill up a few jars of water.” And Mary says, “You heard the man.” Jesus listened to Mommy then, no reason he’d stop now, is there?

EA_Man:

On these forums I have had people tell me that we can “prove” Petrine Primacy not only by Matthew 16:15-19 or by John 21:17-19 but also by such loose reasoning as “he was the only disciple to walk on water” or that Jesus chose Peter’s boat to teach from in Luke 5. If that is true, then what can we deduce from the fact that not once in the entire New Testament is there an admonition or command to ask Mary or any other departed saint to intervene for us?

I’m still gonna press the point that there is no difference between a living and deceased saint, except that the “dead” saint sees Jesus face to face.

EA_Man:

Hmmm…God says (commands us) to listen to Jesus. Does Jesus tell us to pray to Mary? Ahh, nope. In fact, He asks a very interesting question.

Matthew 15:3
And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

Good question.

Yeah, it is a good question. Here’s another, what’s the CONTEXT?

Matthew 15:1-6

"Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” He answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die.’ But you say, ‘If any one tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, he need not honor his father.’ So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God."

AAH! What’s this!? Not honoring your Mother is voiding the commandments of God? You said earlier that God commanded us to listen to Jesus. Jesus said, “Son, behold your Mother!” Thus, Mary is our Mother, by God’s command demanding of honor. So, let me ask you the same question:

…why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

 

[Mickey]

I’ve posted this on another thread. But I’ll post it again here for the sake of anyone who may be misinformed.

by Sebastian R. Fama

There seems to be a great deal of confusion among non-Catholics concerning the Church’s teaching on Mary and the saints in heaven. It is alleged that by praying to them we equate them with God. This is false. But why pray to them, when we can pray to God? Don’t the Scriptures tell us that we have but one mediator, and that is “Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5)? To begin with, the role in question is not one of mediation but one of intercession. To pray means to ask, not to worship. Also, we do not pray to the saints instead of God. We pray to God and also ask that the saints pray for and with us. Are we not to “bear one another’s burdens” (Galatians 6:2), and to “pray for one another” (James 5:16)? Were we not “all baptized into one body” (1 Corinthians 12:13)? Are not the saints in heaven still members of that body?

We know that “the prayer of a righteous person has great power” (James 5:16). Who could be more righteous or pray more fervently than those already perfected and in the Lord’s presence? We know that they care for us, "There will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents" (Luke 15:7). And finally we see that they present our prayers along with their own to Jesus: “The four living creatures and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with **golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints” **(Revelation 5:8). Also, “And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne. **And the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God” **(Revelation 8:3-4). Note that incense represents our prayers, and that the angels and elders in heaven present our prayers to God.

In Matthew 18:10 we find, “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.” What do you suppose that the little ones’ angels would be doing on their behalf before God? Praying for them is the only logical answer.

 

[Mickey]

Our Relationship with Mary (unknown author)

Her soul magnifies the Lord (Luke 1:46-55)! Think of what that means for just a moment.

Main Entry: mag·ni·fy
Pronunciation: 'mag-n&-"fI
Function: verb Inflected Form(s): -fied; -fy·ing
Etymology: Middle English magnifien, from Middle French magnifier, from Latin magnificare, from magnificus Date: 14th century transitive senses
1 a : EXTOL, LAUD b : to cause to be held in greater esteem or respect
2 a : to increase in significance : INTENSIFY b : EXAGGERATE
3 : to enlarge in fact or in appearance intransitive senses : to have the power of causing objects to appear larger than they are

Everything about Our Lady points straight back to the Father, Whose faithful daughter she is; to the Son, Whose mother she is; and to the Holy Spirit Who overshadowed her. There is no one in all of history whose relationship with God is as complex, fulfilled, and achingly beautiful as Mary’s. She is not only the greatest of Saints, she is our Mother, as Jesus is our Brother and Savior. In honoring her, we honor Him – and imitate Him, as we are admonished to both honor our parents and imitate Christ, Who loved His Mother. Our relationship with Mary is that of a child to a blessed Mother who was given to us as Jesus gave her to John at the Cross. She is our spiritual Mother (Revelation 12:17 – And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the *remnant of **her *seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ), and she wants to pray for us.

The Hail Mary Prayer
Hail, Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.

**Final Thoughts **

Do some Catholics cross the line between honoring Mary as spiritual Mother and “Mariolatry”? I imagine it could happen, but I can’t say I’ve ever met any Catholic who does. If such a thing happens, it is not only rare, it is firmly contradictory to Church teaching. Orthodox Catholics simply do not worship Mary as God – and it gets a little tiring being accused of worshipping Mary as God when you don’t. It amounts to being called a liar and is quite rude. We Catholics would be the ones to know Whom we consider God and whom we don’t. I love my biological Mother, too, but don’t mistake her for the Lord! I honor her, keep in touch with her, look after her, celebrate her special days, would get mad if someone were to insult her – and I do the same for Jesus’s Mother. My love for my Mother doesn’t mean I don’t love my Father, too. [Note: when I wrote this, my mother was still alive in the flesh. She has since, pray God, gone to be with Jesus. If you are Catholic and reading this, please say a prayer for her beautiful soul… Her name is Betty Clara.]

It just strikes me as evil, this not uncommon attempt to diminish Mary’s status and the unceasing accusations against Catholics of trying to raise her status to that of God’s. There’s something very sinister and ugly in it, and I find it offensive. We Catholics take great care in pointing out that “worship” in the sense of latria 3 is GOD’S alone – even to the point of having separate terms for the honor and *adoration *due to God as opposed to the honor and *veneration *of the Saints – including His greatest Saint, Mary. They are:

• latria: the honor due to God alone
• **dulia: **the honor due to human creatures worthy of respect
• hyperdulia: the honor due to Mary as God’s greatest creation and our Queen Mother

Continued…

 

[Mickey]

…continued from last post

So, please, if you’re of the “Catholics are of the Whore of Babylon” variety, just calm down and use your energies to save a pagan.

…And ask yourself why the heck we’d lie about not worshipping Mary as some sort of divine being if we actually did. Do you think we are ashamed? Afraid of what you might think? Do you think that we actually do worship Mary but don’t tell converts until some secret ceremony held after they’ve been in the Church a few years and can be trusted? I mean, really! Satanists have no qualms telling people they worship Satan, pagans have no problem informing the world that they worship the earth, Hindus are not uneager to reveal that they chant to Krishna – but Catholics are “afraid” to “admit” whom they consider God? Please! We are not afraid to tell you we believe in Purgatory, indulgences, the Communion of Saints, the efficacy of piously using sacramentals, the true grace of the Sacraments, the infallibility of the Pope when he uses his Extraordinary or Universal Magisterium, etc. Trust me; if we thought Mary is a godess, we’d let you know.

Finally, why do some people behave as though they think that loving, honoring, and appealing to Mary to pray for us “takes away” from Jesus? Are we given 16 oz of love or something, some finite amount we must carefully dole out lest we run out? When we love Christ, does that prevent us from loving each other? No! Love is infinite because God, Who is Love, is infinite! We can love and adore Jesus, and love Mary, and love the other Saints, and love each other without depriving anyone (or Anyone) of anything. How many children can you have without running out of love? How many friends? What we “spend” in love is replaced many times over; love for Christ can only bring the fruits of more love to give.

To love Mary takes nothing at all from Christ, but honors our Blessed Lord by Whose grace she is who she is: His greatest creation, the greatest of Saints, the Queen of Heaven, the Immaculate Conception, the spotless Virgin, the Ark of the Covenant, the New Eve, the mother of God, and the mother of Israel – *our *mother who wants nothing more for us than to pray for us and show us her Son.

Please, leave Mary, Jesus, and us Catholics (and Orthodox) in peace.

 

[EA_Man]

Palatine:

Waiit a sec there. Why? I mean, if you can go directly to God, why even bother asking your friends to pray for you? Does asking more people make your prayer mighter, is there more of a chance that He’ll listen? I mean, you bash Catholics for asking prayers of those in Heaven, yet you go and ask prayers of your fellow living imperfect human beings…I just don’t get the difference.

Wherever two or three are gathered in my name…hello?

Palatine:

Ok, I see. it’s because we’re asking “dead” people. Man, that sucks, you mean that all my friend who I thought were going to Heaven are actually dead? Heaven must be some boring place then, huh? Isn’t our God the God of the living, not the dead?

Have you an actual scripture verse to back up your claim that the saints that have passed on can hear your prayers?

Palatine:

There are no particular verses that tell us to ask for Mary’s assistance, because as you astutely pointed out, Mary’s name is not mentioned in the NT letters

So no verse. Well that’s never stopped you before.

Palatine:

You said earlier that God commanded us to listen to Jesus. Jesus said, “Son, behold your Mother!”
Thus, Mary is our Mother, by God’s command demanding of honor. So, let me ask you the same question:

…why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

What’s the CONTEXT? Yeah, like Jesus is talking to John, man. Like Dude, take care of my mother - crazy cool huh?

Nice attempt at avoiding the issue.

 

[Anne_Carmel]

Please do remember your charity.

 

[jimmy]

april_hosen:

Every human has made a mistake or has sinned theres no getting around that. I dont know what Marys sins were but I’m positive she had sinned. Mary was not the equivilant of God on any factor-that was point. She was human, thats why she died. Jesus didnt die. God never died. Do you see where I’m gettin at?

This theology is heretical on several subjects. First, Jesus did die, otherwise the resurection never occured and we would still be doomed to death and mortality.

Second, no Catholic is claiming that Mary is equal to God. Calling her the mother of God is not making her equal to God.

Also even though she did not sin, she is still infinately nothing compared to God. Whether you sin or not does not affect whether God is greater than you. Adam and Eve were created sin-less but they were never equal to God.

Elizabeth called Mary the mother of her Lord in the gospel, therefore she is the mother of her Lord. Her Lord is God, therefore she is the mother of God.

Last, you say that all humans have sinned. That is heresy because it claims that Christ was not human. Christ was fully human and fully God. Therefore he was a human and did not sin.

 

[jimmy]

Palatine:

Waiit a sec there. Why? I mean, if you can go directly to God, why even bother asking your friends to pray for you? Does asking more people make your prayer mighter, is there more of a chance that He’ll listen? I mean, you bash Catholics for asking prayers of those in Heaven, yet you go and ask prayers of your fellow living imperfect human beings…I just don’t get the difference.

“The prayers of a righteous man availeth us much.” Who is more righteous than those in heaven who have been sanctified by God?

 

[Peace-bwu]

EA_Man:

I

was raised Catholic, my wife’s family is Catholic. When they say “pray to Mary” that’s just what THEY mean. When my wife misplaced her car keys, her mother told her to “pray to St. Anthony” - unless this is Catholic code for “ask St. Anthony to intercede with Jesus to help find your car keys” then praying to means just that; praying TO. Also neither I, nor any of the Catholics I know personally, remember any instruction in how “not” to communicate to Mary or the saints. We remember receiving instruction on the Hail Mary - but no instruction was ever given along the lines of “remember - you’re not praying TO Mary, you’re only asking her to intercede for you.”

I am sorry you must have been taught wrong or misunderstood what you heard or were being taught as a child. I’m not sure how old you are, but I know that CCD was seriously lacking when I was a kid and basically ended after eigth grade, so I had to learn everything on an adult level as an adult. Every Catholic should know exactly what is meant when we say “Pray to Saint Anthony to find your keys.” Why do you think they are called “Patron Saints” because of the ways the saints lived their particular lives they may have a better understanding of our plight and their prayers may be more effective. I.E. On Earth, a Saint who was exceptionally charitable to children still keeps their personality in heaven and so would probably feel very strongly about praying for children in heaven. To the Catholic, or fellow Christian who believes in the Communion of Saints, there should be no difference in asking a friend, or clergy member to pray for you or with you and asking a saint in heaven to pray for you. In fact the saint in heaven is right there, face to face with God, without all the Earthly distractions, and a person isn’t always in a situation to call a friend to pray for them, such as in an emergency. Why would the Bible say that God is there whenever two or more of you gather in his name? God wants us to intercede for each other.

This is because we are praying To Mary, we are asking her to pray with us and for us to God, wherever two or more of you are gathered in my name… why not gather with the mother of Christ?

Furthermore, the explanation that language has changed is very nice but beside the point when the hearer of “pray TO” thinks it means something other than what you intended it to mean and acts on it.

Yes it is nice because it is the reason. I have never met anyone who worships Mary, but if I did I would certainly explain it, just as I have with you. Did you misunderstand as a child and worship Mary or something? I try to explain to people of other faiths when they criticize me, but I won’t allow it to change the way I worship God. I guess I was lucky, I went to Catholic grade school and have always had people around me to explain the Communion of Saints, so I have never thought It meant the same as worship.

Finally, Jesus has opened the way for us to go directly to the Father. Why not go directly to Him through Jesus rather than through a hierarchy of saints and other intercessors and then through Jesus? How is a prayer offered through a saint or Mary any more efficacious than one offered directly to God? Paul says all believers are saints.

Absoultely, Catholics agree with this 100%. We* are* going directly to Jesus, and often we ask our friends, family, clergy and even the saints in heaven, (since we are in communion with us and with God, to pray a circle of prayer.) Yes we are all Saints. Mind you though, saints on Earth must persevere to the end, we haven’t been saved by the Grace of God yet, we are still capable of turning our backs on Christ, on sinning against the Holy Spirit. There are many different forms of prayer. When I am praising God alone, or just speaking one on one with Jesus, I don’t feel the need to bring any other saint, whether Earthly or heavenly. However, I often call my Earthly mother and sisters and close friends to pray with me and for me when I am in need of a miracle, or Grace or any other virtue. I find the Communion of Saints a great comfort and a very powerful prayer circle. Although Catholics are called to believe in the Communion of Saints, it is in our Creed, we are not forced to ask the saints to pray with us or for us (AKA pray to them for intercession) it is not technically necessary for salvation, but God gave it to us as a help on our road to Him, so why not? It is all a part of HIs plan.

 

[Peace-bwu]

Another question I have is this: how do latria, dulia, and hyper-dulia differ in PRACTICE? I understand the distinctions in the definitions of these terms, but how do they differ in practice? If latria is worship of God only, then how does the communication to Mary differ from that, and the communication with other saints differ from that to Mary?

For Catholics the highest form of worship is the Mass, The Eucharistic celebration takes place around the world throughtout the days of the week, but especially on Sunday, the Universal Catholic Church is gathered together, worshiping God at the Same time with the same prayers, Scripture readings and most importantly the Eucharist. During Mass, all the Holy Angels, the Saints and people on Earth are in Communon singing " Glory to God in the highest and peace to His people on Earth. Lord God, heavenly king, almighty God and Father, We worship you, we give you thanks, we praise you for your glory. holy holy, holy Lord, God of power and might, we worship you, we give you thanks we praise you for your glory, Lord, Jesus Christ, only son of the father Lord God, Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the world have mercy on us, you are seated at the right hand of the Father, receive our prayer" You see much reference to the Mass in the Book of Revelations, and you see angels pouring out the incence of the Saints in heaven, meaning their prayers for us to God. It is all Biblical, but worthy of a thread on its own.

Now, for our daily informal prayer the methods are as individual as each and every person. My husband and I generally have a running dialogue with God through Jesus, all day going on in our hearts. We pray before meals as a family, starting with a formal prayer and then each of us has the opportunity for spontaneous prayer.

The rosary is a Christ Centered Prayer, in which we view Christ through the eyes of Mary,

I’m not sure what you are looking for specifically, but A prayer to a saint is very different, there is no worshiping of any kind, usually when I do this I imagine the saint, think of their life and the fact that they are in heaven with God and ask them to pray for me. Mary is special because she knows Jesus as a Mother. Is your mother special to you? God knows what is in our hearts, he knows I worship Him alone. If I can give you any specifics please let me know.

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions

You are very welcome, I hope this helps. I asked all these same questions in college twelve yrs ago, even though I was taught as a child that we only worship God, I needed to understand more deeply as an adult, so opened myself up to understanding Truth, whatever that may be and I rediscovered my Catholic Faith.

 

[Peace-bwu]

ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/index.htm

This link gives quite a few common prayers, and many devotions. It might give you a better understanding of the difference between prayers to God, and the various intercessory Saint’s prayers. Please note, these are formal prayers, Catholics generally use both memorized and spontaneous prayer together, it helps focus the mind on the Truths of God.


A Prayer To St. Joseph

O blessed Joseph, faithful guardian of my Redeemer, Jesus Christ, protector
of thy chaste spouse, the virgin Mother of God, I choose thee this day to
be my special patron and advocate and I firmly resolve to honor thee all
the days of my life. Therefore I humbly beseech thee to receive me as thy
client, to instruct me in every doubt, to comfort me in every affliction,
to obtain for me and for all the knowledge and love of the Heart of Jesus,
and finally to defend and protect me at the hour of my death. Amen

 

[Peace-bwu]

http://www.ewtn.com/art/news/2004/lourdes_04.jpg

POPE JOHN PAUL II’S PRAYER TO OUR LADY OF LOURDES

This prayer was said during the Holy Father’s August 15, 2004 visit to Lourdes, France. The Pope asked her among other things to “be our guide along the paths of the world.”

Hail Mary, poor and humble Woman, Blessed by the Most High! Virgin of hope, dawn of a new era, We join in your song of praise, to celebrate the Lord’s mercy, to proclaim the coming of the Kingdom and the full liberation of humanity.

Hail Mary, lowly handmaid of the Lord, Glorious Mother of Christ! Faithful Virgin, holy dwelling-place of the Word, Teach us to persevere in listening to the Word, and to be docile to the voice of the Spirit, attentive to his promptings in the depths of our conscience and to his manifestations in the events of history.

Hail Mary, Woman of sorrows, Mother of the living! Virgin spouse beneath the Cross, the new Eve, Be our guide along the paths of the world. Teach us to experience and to spread the love of Christ, to stand with you before the innumerable crosses on which your Son is still crucified.

Hail Mary, woman of faith, First of the disciples! Virgin Mother of the Church, help us always to account for the hope that is in us, with trust in human goodness and the Father’s love. Teach us to build up the world beginning from within: in the depths of silence and prayer, in the joy of fraternal love, in the unique fruitfulness of the Cross.

Holy Mary, Mother of believers, Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for us.

Amen.

 

[Peace-bwu]

An Act of
Consecration to The
Sacred Heart of Jesus

By Saint Margaret Mary
Alacoque

​

I give myself and consecrate to the Sacred Heart of our Lord Jesus Christ, my person and my life, my actions, pains and sufferings, so that I may be unwilling to make use of any part of my being other than to honor, love and glorify the Sacred Heart. This is my unchanging purpose, namely, to be all His, and to do all things for the love of Him, at the same time renouncing with all my heart whatever is displeasing to Him. I therefore take You, O Sacred heart, to be the only object of my love, the guardian of my life, my assurance of salvation, the remedy of my weakness and inconstancy, the atonement for all the faults of my life and my sure refuge at the hour of death. Be then, O Heart of goodness, my justification before God the Father, and turn away from me the strokes of his righteous anger. O Heart of love, I put all my confidence in You, for I fear everything from my own wickedness and frailty, but I hope for all things from Your goodness and bounty.

Remove from me all that can displease You or resist Your holy will; let your pure love imprint Your image so deeply upon my heart, that I shall never be able to forget You or to be separated from You.

May I obtain from all Your loving kindness the grace of having my name written in Your Heart, for in You I desire to place all my happiness and glory, living and dying in bondage to You.

Amen.

 

[Peace-bwu]

http://www.ewtn.com/art/jesus/trinity/trinty_sm.jpg

Prayer of Thanksgiving to the Trinity

by St. Catherine of Siena (1347-1380), Doctor of the Church

*Act of Thanksgiving to the Trinity, *from St. Catherine’s Dialogue on Divine Providence

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O Eternal God! O Eternal Trinity! Through the union of Thy divine nature Thou hast made so precious the Blood of Thine only-begotten Son! O eternal Trinity, Thou art as deep a mystery as the sea, in whom the more I seek, the more I find; and the more I find, the more I seek. For even immersed in the depths of Thee, my soul is never satisfied, always famished and hungering for Thee, eternal Trinity, wishing and desiring to see Thee, the True Light. O eternal Trinity, with the light of understanding I have tasted and seen the depths of Thy mystery and the beauty of Thy creation. In seeing myself in Thee, I have seen that I will become like Thee. O eternal Father, from Thy power and Thy wisdom clearly Thou hast given to me a share of that wisdom which belongs to Thine Only-begotten Son. And truly hast the Holy Spirit, who procedeth from Thee, Father and Son, given to me the desire to love Thee.

O eternal Trinity, Thou art my maker and I am Thy creation. Illuminated by Thee, I have learned that Thou hast made me a new creation through the Blood of Thine Only-begotten Son because Thou art captivated by love at the beauty of Thy creation.

O eternal Trinity, O Divinity, O unfathomable abyss, O deepest sea, what greater gift could Thou givest me then Thy very Self? Thou art a fire that burns eternally yet never consumed, a fire that consumes with Thy heat my self-love. Again and again Thou art the fire who taketh away all cold heartedness and illuminateth the mind by Thy light, the light with which Thou hast made me to know Thy truth.

By this mirrored light I know Thou are the highest good, a good above all good, a fortunate good, an incomprehensible good, an unmeasurable good, a beauty above all beauty, a wisdom above all wisdom, for Thou art wisdom itself, the the food of angels, the fire of love that Thou givest to man.

Thou art the garment covering our nakedness. Thou feedest our family with Thy sweetness, a sweetness Thou art from which there is no trace of bitterness. O Eternal Trinity! Amen.

A Trinity Prayer

Love of Jesus Fill us.
Holy Spirit Guide us.
Will of the Father be done.

 

[Axion]

EA_Man:

Have you an actual scripture verse to back up your claim that the saints that have passed on can hear your prayers?

2 Maccabees 15:11-14
He armed all his men, not by encouraging them to trust in shields and spears, but by inspiring them with courageous words. He also lifted their morale by telling them about his dream, a kind of vision that they could trust in.
He told them that he had seen a vision of Onias, the former High Priest, that great and wonderful man of humble and gentle dispostion, who was an outstanding orator and who had been taught from childhood how to live a virtuous life. With outstretched arms Onias was praying for the entire Jewish nation. Judas then saw an impressive white-haired man of great dignity and authority. Onias said: “This is God’s prophet Jeremiah, who loves the Jewish people and offers many prayers for us and for Jerusalem, the holy city.”

Lk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Revelation 4.4: Surrounding the throne were twenty four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
Revelation 5.8: …and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

So no verse. Well that’s never stopped you before.

Oh. So now you’re wanting a verse that specifically mentions praying to Mary by NAME??

What’s the CONTEXT? Yeah, like Jesus is talking to John, man. Like Dude, take care of my mother - crazy cool huh?
.

The CONTEXT is that these are in Jesus’s final words from the cross. John was the only Apostle present, he **represented ** all the other apostles - the believing Church… Do you think Jesus didn’t know what was going to happen to Him in Jerusalem? He would hardly leave provision for His mother till the last second. All His words spoken from the cross have far greater significnce than simple mundane remarks. And the Catholic teaching is backed up in at least two other ways.

And if Christians are brethren of Jesus, they share His Father and Mother.

If Christians are part of the Body of Jesus - the same!

 

[EA_Man]

Peace-bwu:

Now, for our daily informal prayer the methods are as individual as each and every person. My husband and I generally have a running dialogue with God through Jesus, all day going on in our hearts. We pray before meals as a family, starting with a formal prayer and then each of us has the opportunity for spontaneous prayer.

This sounds wonderful. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[EA_Man]

Anne Carmel:

Please do remember your charity.

I wanted to apologize to everyone on this thread for being sarcastic.

I’m sorry.

I’ll try to keep in mind that we are all one in Jesus Christ.

 

[Mickey]

I would also like to apologize personally to EA_Man for uncharitable remarks I made. I truly believe that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST!
GLORY FOREVER!
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