The Mystery Of The Empty Tomb

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w_stewart said:
Ah really? So no miracles recorded in the Old Testament? And God is so incapable of creating miracles?
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It depends on what you think about miracles. If they are by definition, events against Nature, I doubt it if God would act against His own laws. He could use the laws of Nature to naturally operate wonders, but why should He do something just to please your understanding of what miracle is? The greatest of Philosophers, Baruch de Spinoza, said that miracles according to the understanding of Christianity is rather a proof that God is weak.
 
w_stewart said:
Another set of hogwash coming from you.

Will you please enlighten me what particular erroneous doctrine the Catholic Church has committed against the Jews?

I suppose you understand what I mean with doctrine.
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Again! You don’t get it, do you? It is a Christian doctrine that God made of Jesus the Lord and Messiah. This doctrine was inserted in the same verse with the accusation that the Jews crucified Jesus. (Acts 2:36) If the magnanimous late Pople John 23rd had said "Forgive the NT for this false accusation, the Church was free to go. But as he said, “Forgive Christianity,” he made of that doctrine and accusation, a Church interpolation. Thus, he proved that the Church can err ex cathedra.
 
w_stewart said:
Could you provide the speech of the Pope?
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No, I am sorry! BTW, you are the second person to ask me for that. I read it in a publication of the “Plain Truth” magazine by Herbert Armstrong. I did not pursue the original text because I never thought I would find myself at the point to produce it. But I think that’s not impossible to get it somewhere. Some of you here have acknowledged the Pope’s confession.
 
Ben_Masada said:
It depends on what you think about miracles. If they are by definition, events against Nature, I doubt it if God would act against His own laws. He could use the laws of Nature to naturally operate wonders, but why should He do something just to please your understanding of what miracle is? The greatest of Philosophers, Baruch de Spinoza, said that miracles according to the understanding of Christianity is rather a proof that God is weak.
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Is God bound by the laws of nature (not Natural Law)?
 
Ben_Masada said:
Again! You don’t get it, do you? It is a Christian doctrine that God made of Jesus the Lord and Messiah. This doctrine was inserted in the same verse with the accusation that the Jews crucified Jesus. (Acts 2:36) If the magnanimous late Pople John 23rd had said "Forgive the NT for this false accusation, the Church was free to go. But as he said, “Forgive Christianity,” he made of that doctrine and accusation, a Church interpolation. Thus, he proved that the Church can err ex cathedra.
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Ows?

Certainly the “magnanimous” Pope was not asking for forgiveness for the doctrine of Jesus being the Lord and the Messiah.’

And the accusation that Jews cruficified Jesus was NEVER a Church doctrine. Check your facts,
 
Ben_Masada said:
No, I am sorry! BTW, you are the second person to ask me for that. I read it in a publication of the “Plain Truth” magazine by Herbert Armstrong. I did not pursue the original text because I never thought I would find myself at the point to produce it. But I think that’s not impossible to get it somewhere. Some of you here have acknowledged the Pope’s confession.
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Ah!

Could you provide us the quotation of Herbert Armstrong?
 
Ben_Masada said:
And I don’t demand that you see me as an authority in Judaism. Just test my assertions with the Scriptures and I’ll be satisfied. Start with your alleged “truth that Jesus is God.” Open up the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle and prove to me that he was God. But mind you, without assumptions, because what I have from Isaiah 46:5 is that we cannot compare God with anyone as an equal, or match Him against, as if they were alike.
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But you do hold yourself out as such. Jesus said He was God. Of course you dismiss the scriptures as being a forgery because they go against what you say is Judisim based on your own authority.
 
w_stewart said:
Is God bound by the laws of nature (not Natural Law)?
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No, but the natural laws are the tools in the “hands”
of God to deal with Nature. Are you bound by your feelings? No, but your five senses are the tools in your hands to deal with your feelings.
 
w_stewart said:
Ows?

Certainly the “magnanimous” Pope was not asking for forgiveness for the doctrine of Jesus being the Lord and the Messiah.’

And the accusation that Jews cruficified Jesus was NEVER a Church doctrine. Check your facts,
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In that case, I am gonna need your forgiveness to say that you guys have been lying from the very beginning. The Christian central message is that the Jews are Christ killers. And that’s the main reason for all acts of Antisemitism, since the time the Church exists as a Church.
 
adrift said:
But you do hold yourself out as such. Jesus said He was God. Of course you dismiss the scriptures as being a forgery because they go against what you say is Judisim based on your own authority.
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Well my dear friend, make a change of Jew. Ask another Jew why he does not believe that Jesus is God. I am almost sure that his answer won’t be too different from mine.
 
Ben_Masada said:
It depends on what you think about miracles. If they are by definition, events against Nature, I doubt it if God would act against His own laws. He could use the laws of Nature to naturally operate wonders, but why should He do something just to please your understanding of what miracle is? The greatest of Philosophers, Baruch de Spinoza, said that miracles according to the understanding of Christianity is rather a proof that God is weak.
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Spinoza’s writings were condemned by the Catholic Church. What he has to say is unimportant and wasn’t he given and equivalent excommunication by the Jews?
Ben_Masada said:
Again! You don’t get it, do you? It is a Christian doctrine that God made of Jesus the Lord and Messiah. This doctrine was inserted in the same verse with the accusation that the Jews crucified Jesus. (Acts 2:36) If the magnanimous late Pople John 23rd had said "Forgive the NT for this false accusation, the Church was free to go. But as he said, “Forgive Christianity,” he made of that doctrine and accusation, a Church interpolation. Thus, he proved that the Church can err ex cathedra.
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The pope did not do what you say he did. He never said this was an insertion, which is your unsubstantiated claim. He never said to forgive the Church for the false accusation of the New Testament. What I could find was that he was sorry that the Gospel was used to persecute but never denied that the Gospel was true. The actual crucifixtion was accomplished through the Romans. The Romans didn’t arrest Him. He was brought to the Romans by the Jewish leaders. In the end, however, Jesus was crucified by each one of us in order for our sins to be forgiven.
Ben_Masada said:
No, I am sorry! BTW, you are the second person to ask me for that. I read it in a publication of the “Plain Truth” magazine by Herbert Armstrong. I did not pursue the original text because I never thought I would find myself at the point to produce it. But I think that’s not impossible to get it somewhere. Some of you here have acknowledged the Pope’s confession.
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DO NOT BE DISINGENUIS. No one here acknoledged the Pope’s “confession” as you have presented it. We have asked for citation because it doesn’t sound like something the Pope would say and now that I know where your information comes form I doubt it completley. There goes your some here has acknowledgeded it.

You should not use it as proof unless you have a legitimate citation.
 
Ben_Masada said:
In that case, I am gonna need your forgiveness to say that you guys have been lying from the very beginning. The Christian central message is that the Jews are Christ killers. And that’s the main reason for all acts of Antisemitism, since the time the Church exists as a Church.
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The Christian Central message the gospel is Jesus has saved us from ourselves. We are redeemed. We are adopted children of God.
 
Ben_Masada said:
In that case, I am gonna need your forgiveness to say that you guys have been lying from the very beginning. The Christian central message is that the Jews are Christ killers. And that’s the main reason for all acts of Antisemitism, since the time the Church exists as a Church.
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First, you have never answered my question: What erroneous doctrine the Church has taught all throughout the centuries that the magnanimous Pope was asking for forgiveness?

Second, the Christian central message was NOT that the Jews were Christ killers. It is either you are so ignorant of Christianity or you are full of hatred against Christianity that you invent this lie.
 
one thing that always struck me about the Apostles, the diciples, and those who saw the Risen Lord, was the fact that many of them went to, in many cases, horrible deaths for their witness.

I dont know if it is possible to die like that if it wasn’t true. I mean, who would knowingly die for what they knew was a lie?
 
adrift said:
Spinoza’s writings were condemned by the Catholic Church. What he has to say is unimportant and wasn’t he given and equivalent excommunication by the Jews?

Unfortunately, he was, but today we acknowledge with the rest of the learning world that Baruch de Spinoza was the greatest of Philosophers.

The pope did not do what you say he did. He never said this was an insertion, which is your unsubstantiated claim.

And I have never said that the Pope said that this was an insertion. I just find obvious that it was because of his confession to forgive Christianity. I am not going to rest till I find the original confession of John 23rd. I don’t believe Herbert Armstrong would forge such a confession.

He never said to forgive the Church for the false accusation of the New Testament.

I know, he said to forgive Christianity. I am the one who gives the Church a synonym for Christianity.

What I could find was that he was sorry that the Gospel was used to persecute but never denied that the Gospel was true.

He would not have been that hypocrite you make him to be. The way you paraphrase it is as good as nothing. He would know, by his knowledge of the Jewish mind, that we would not accept such a hypocrite statement.

The actual crucifixtion was accomplished through the Romans. The Romans didn’t arrest Him. He was brought to the Romans by the Jewish leaders. In the end, however, Jesus was crucified by each one of us in order for our sins to be forgiven.

Now, explain the contradiction that Jesus came to confirm the single most impotant thing to a Jew, which is God’s Law, and the Jews would pay pack by betraying Jesus to the Romans for crucifixion. Do I have to ask if you don’t smell conspiracy against the Jewish People here? I guess not.

DO NOT BE DISINGENUIS. No one here acknoledged the Pope’s “confession” as you have presented it. We have asked for citation because it doesn’t sound like something the Pope would say and now that I know where your information comes form I doubt it completley. There goes your some here has acknowledgeded it.

You really describe the character of a real Pope and his followers.

You should not use it as proof unless you have a legitimate citation.

I doubt if Herbert Armstrong would be that irresponsible.
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