The Mystery Of The Empty Tomb

[Ben_Masada]

The Christian Central message the gospel is Jesus has saved us from ourselves. We are redeemed. We are adopted children of God.

And the Scriptures is only too clear that no man can die for the guilt of another. That every man should be put to death for his own sins. ( Deut. 24:16; Jer. 31:30)

 

[Ben_Masada]

Thomas believed differntly.

You don’t even know for sure if Thomas existed. Ask a real Jew. That’s what I mean.

 

[Ben_Masada]

In other words, God can do things unrestricted of the laws of nature?

Yes, God can do everything. But whose is the telling that He did something just because you wish He did?

 

[Ben_Masada]

First, you have never answered my question: What erroneous doctrine the Church has taught all throughout the centuries that the magnanimous Pope was asking for forgiveness?

Second, the Christian central message was NOT that the Jews were Christ killers. It is either you are so ignorant of Christianity or you are full of hatred against Christianity that you invent this lie.

Acts 2:36 Is this a lie?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Oh well…

As usual you have nothing to present to support your claims.

I always present the Scriptures. The problem is that you don’t care to verify.

 

[Ben_Masada]

one thing that always struck me about the Apostles, the diciples, and those who saw the Risen Lord, was the fact that many of them went to, in many cases, horrible deaths for their witness.

I dont know if it is possible to die like that if it wasn’t true. I mean, who would knowingly die for what they knew was a lie?

That doesn’t mean anything. Muslims throwing themselves to their death for Islam is very common. Does it mean they have a monoply on the truth? I didn’t think so.

 

[Aquinas62]

your analogy is false, muslims “believe” it is true… the Apostles died "KNOWING the TRUTH BECAUSE THEY SAW IT!!!

 

[Aquinas62]

one more thing… the example you gave only shows that someone is willing to die for their BELIEFS, however false and evil they may be.

My contention is that nobody is willing to die for what they KNOW is a LIE!! big difference my friend.

 

[adrift]

adrift;5660881:

I am not going to rest till I find the original confession of John 23rd. I don’t believe Herbert Armstrong would forge such a confession]

I read many of his articles before he died. I caught him in many a lie. It would surprise me if he quotes accurately and with context.

He would not have been that hypocrite you make him to be. The way you paraphrase it is as good as nothing. He would know, by his knowledge of the Jewish mind, that we would not accept such a hypocrite statement

I see nothing hypocritiacal about it. You need to explain.

Now, explain the contradiction that Jesus came to confirm the single most impotant thing to a Jew, which is God’s Law, and the Jews would pay pack by betraying Jesus to the Romans for crucifixion. Do I have to ask if you don’t smell conspiracy against the Jewish People here? I guess not

You have stated a wrong premise which makes your entire statment moot.

[You really describe the character of a real Pope and his followers.

Youu should not use it as proof unless you have a legitimate citation.
I doubt if Herbert Armstrong would be that irresponsible.

You have not read him much or you would have no doubt that he is. Until you have verified the citation in context you should not use it.
[/quote]

 

[adrift]

You don’t even know for sure if Thomas existed. Ask a real Jew. That’s what I mean.

I know for sure he existed. I am not going to go down this road with you. You must know there are Jews that believe in Jesus but you just will say well they are not real Jews.

 

[adrift]

And the Scriptures is only too clear that no man can die for the guilt of another. That every man should be put to death for his own sins. ( Deut. 24:16; Jer. 31:30)

It doesn’t say that. It says that a Father will not be punished for what his son does and a son shall not be punished for what his father does not “no man can die for the guilt of another” that is an interpretation. It does not say that a man cannot choose to die for another. Which is what Jesus did. He chose to lay down His own life no one took it from Him.

I am curious. Do you follow all of Deut?

 

[adrift]

Acts 2:36 Is this a lie?

34
For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand
35
until I make your enemies your footstool.”’
36
Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified."

The central message is LORD and MESSIAH. Jesus is being Identified as the one crucified not that being the central message. They didn’t physically crucify Him but because of their sins and the sins of the world He died. Yes they crucified Him so did you and so did I.

 

[adrift]

I always present the Scriptures. The problem is that you don’t care to verify.

Ben sometimes it is hard to keep things straight but what was being asked to verify was the Pope’s supposed statement. You could hardly submit scripture to verify it.

 

[w_stewart]

Yes, God can do everything. But whose is the telling that He did something just because you wish He did?

Oh! I never thought God would ever do something I wish him do.

The point here is that although God created laws of nature, he is not bound by them. And therefore he can do things that violate the laws of nature. He can make things happen unrestricted the laws of nature. And he can certainly perform miracles.

Yours is another horwash. The same hogwash when you claimed God cannot be born by a virgin.

 

[w_stewart]

I always present the Scriptures. The problem is that you don’t care to verify.

We were talking about your claim that the magnannimous was asking for forgiveness to the Jews. I don’t have a clue that such allegation was written in Scriptures.

 

[w_stewart]

Ben sometimes it is hard to keep things straight but what was being asked to verify was the Pope’s supposed statement. You could hardly submit scripture to verify it.

:clapping::extrahappy:

 

[Ben_Masada]

your analogy is false, muslims “believe” it is true… the Apostles died "KNOWING the TRUTH BECAUSE THEY SAW IT!!!

My analogy is not false. The Apostles believed it was true. And for one’s beliefs, it is very common to die. Then, where is it written what the Apostles saw, in the gospels written by Gentiles? Hardly!

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;5664215:

I read many of his articles before he died. I caught him in many a lie. It would surprise me if he quotes accurately and with context.

I see nothing hypocritiacal about it. You need to explain.

You have not read him much or you would have no doubt that he is. Until you have verified the citation in context you should not use it.

**I used to correspond with Herbert Armstrong as we debated each other till he died.

Regarding your paraphrase of the Pope’s confession, I find hypocritical that he would address the Jewish People to say he was sorry that the gospels were used to persecute Jews but he could not do anything about it.

Likewise, if you cannot produce the right citation for the confession of the Pope, you should not mention that he was only sorry for Jewish suffering as a result of the gospels.**

 

[w_stewart]

Likewise, if you cannot produce the right citation for the confession of the Pope, you should not mention that he was only sorry for Jewish suffering as a result of the gospels.

You brought up the issue, you should provide the necessary documents to prove it. It is but improper to pass the buck.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I know for sure he existed. I am not going to go down this road with you. You must know there are Jews that believe in Jesus but you just will say well they are not real Jews.

It depends on what you mean by “believing in Jesus.” I do believe Jesus existed as a real Jew. I don’t believe in him as a Christian does. Jews who believe in Jesus as Christians do, yes, they are no longer Jews but Christians.