The Mystery Of The Empty Tomb

[Ben_Masada]

many books of the NT were much earlier than “50+ years later.”

Mark, for example, was from around 65 AD. Paul’s epistles are from around 60 A.D.

I agree with you only with regards to Paul’s Epistles which covered the span of time from 60 to 65 CE. Mark was written in 75 CE. If not for any other reason, there was a Hellenistic tradition that disciples could not write books before the death of their Teacher in order not to obscure the image of their Teacher. This tradition comes from the classic Greek Philosophers.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Who could be this “man” who raised Jesus from the dead?

And by the way, do Jews believe a mere man has a power to resurrect dead?

**The man was Joseph of Arimathea, and he did not raise Jesus from the dead but from the tomb. He had not died. He was laid there to rest while Joseph went for help and ointments to bend his wounds. In fact, one of his helpers was Nicodemus who came with about a hundred pounds of ointments and medications. (John 19:39) Another reason was to give some time for people to clear out of the area.

Regarding the second question, the answer is no. Physical resurrection constitutes a contradiction to the Scriptures. And God, the Only One Who could do that, would not go against His natural laws.(Eccles. 9:6)**

 

[Ben_Masada]

Why should it be a scandal more than a blessing, if that mother-queen has always sought the will of God and His good pleasure, so as to remain in Him? The kings of Judah had their mothers as mother-queen ever since King David started, and in the Scriptures King David was called a king according to God’s heart (“selon le coeur de Dieu”, as it is said in the French version) Why in such a case should it be a scandal that there be a queen-mother in Heaven?

Lapell, please, let us get serious, will ya?

 

[Ben_Masada]

You are saying that Theodor Herzl is the awaited Messiah Israel had been expecting? Has he really accomplished all the works of the Messiah to come according to the Scriptures?
Yes, many Jews are back in their homeland, but most of them are still in the diasporah and among them the majority is not convinced Sionism was according to God’s Will…

**Lapell, I know you are French. Therefore, I do not expect you to be expert in English. But try to focus. I did not say that Theodor Herzl was the awaited Messiah. I said that, as a Messianic leader, he inspired the Messiah with love for Zion and today we are back in the land of Israel.

With regards to the many Jews who remain behind, that’s also Biblical. Isaiah says in 10:20-22 that only a small remnant will return. The major part will remain in the Diaspora. The same happened when the Babylonian exile was over; only a very small part returned to the Land of Israel. Mostly the well-to-do Jews stayed behind to help with their money.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

And what good is it for the Jewish people to be back in Eretz Yisroel if once there they do away with God’s Commandments, especially to love God with your whole heart, soul and strength and to love your neighbour just like you love yourself, or even better, like God loves you?
If you don’t mind at all wounding your opponent, who also descended from Adam and Eve, how can you say you act according to God’s Will?

What kind of question is that, Lapell? What makes you think we have done away with God’s Commandments? And talking about the love of God with all our heart! The opposite is rather true. I have doubled my love of God and His Law since I left Diaspora and returned home.

 

[w_stewart]

Do you know something? I believe you. Surprised? When the late Pope John 23rd asked the Jewish People for forgiveness, he said, to forgive Christianity for the false accusation that the Jews had killed Jesus. He did not ask
to forgive the gospel writers but Christianity. It’s only obvious that the charge that the Jews killed Jesus was an interpolation by the Church in the 4th Century.

If he asked for forgiveness for Christianity and not for the Gospel writers, then that is something. He was not asking for forgiveness for the Gospel writers because he did not believe the Gospel writers wrote something erroneous. That is to say, the Gospel writers were correct.

Now, back to what you said that the Church would still be able to preach to the world about Christ, makes sense that the idea could have been a later interpolation by the Church.

Speculation bereft of truth.

 

[w_stewart]

The man was Joseph of Arimathea, and he did not raise Jesus from the dead but from the tomb. He had not died. He was laid there to rest while Joseph went for help and ointments to bend his wounds. In fact, one of his helpers was Nicodemus who came with about a hundred pounds of ointments and medications. (John 19:39) Another reason was to give some time for people to clear out of the area.

Can you at least provide a reference to provide this?

Regarding the second question, the answer is no. Physical resurrection constitutes a contradiction to the Scriptures. And God, the Only One Who could do that, would not go against His natural laws.(Eccles. 9:6)

So miracles don’t happen, right?

 

[shoewindow3000]

Did you know that after Christ, the Jewish people combined their religion with Greek philosophy?

In reality, the Jewish people inadvertently fulfilled their own prophecies concerning the Messiah. They were thinking in worldly terms, and expected a “political” king.I think you are in denial.

If Paul says something that you don’t like , then you say he is “lying.” Hmm, pretty convenient.

Instead of taking a step back and accepting the situation for what it is. you formulate this horrible, twisted, disgusting view of what happened to convince yourself that you are right.

 

[Lapell]

**We don’t need any more prophets. We have the Scriptures. We have evolved enough to know God’s will through the Scriptures. Until Malachi, we didn’t have the Scriptures in its formal organization as Ezra made it possible for us. Part of my answer is illustrated by Deuteronomy 30:11-14. Take a look at it. Besides, according to the New Covenant, if you read Jeremiah 31:34, we no longer need anyone to teach us to know the Lord. We can do it ourselves through the Scriptures.

Then, I have a question related to this one for you. Why hasn’t God sent Jesus back according to the promise? It has been “only” 2000 years.

About Paul’s strategic conversion and martyrdom, we think the same as the martyrdom of hundreds of Baha’is in Iran at the time of the Aiatolla Chommeni. Many went to their death without retracting their faith. What do you think? I don’t think there is much of a difference.
How about Muslims exploding themselves for their faith in Islam? Nothing of this means they have a monopoly on the Truth. Paul simply died for his cause and this is really common anywhere.**

You keep forgetting that the Gospels and the whole of the New Testament preaches Jesus the Christ (Messiah), not Saul-Paul of Tarse!
No, indeed Jesus has not returned… yet! But until the flood came, Noah’s neighbours certainly were making him a laughstock! But who got the last laugh, so to speak?

 

[Ben_Masada]

If he asked for forgiveness for Christianity and not for the Gospel writers, then that is something. He was not asking for forgiveness for the Gospel writers because he did not believe the Gospel writers wrote something erroneous. That is to say, the Gospel writers were correct.

Speculation bereft of truth.

So, the Church was wrong. So, the Church failed. So, the Church is no longer infallible. So, the Church is not worthy listening to. So, the Church abused of its authority even to rewrite the text and change what it is written. That’s a fall!

 

[Ben_Masada]

Can you at least provide a reference to provide this?

So miracles don’t happen, right?

**I didn’t understand the first question.

Regarding the miracles, right. Everything happens naturally. Can you tell me about any miracle that happened before your eyes? No, you can’t. Isn’t it interesting that they are always told by others or written down for having happened in the long past? The point is that natural events eventually metamorphose into miracles. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

Did you know that after Christ, the Jewish people combined their religion with Greek philosophy?

In reality, the Jewish people inadvertently fulfilled their own prophecies concerning the Messiah. They were thinking in worldly terms, and expected a “political” king.I think you are in denial.

If Paul says something that you don’t like , then you say he is “lying.” Hmm, pretty convenient.

Instead of taking a step back and accepting the situation for what it is. you formulate this horrible, twisted, disgusting view of what happened to convince yourself that you are right.

**There is an enormous difference between Greek Philosophy and Greek Mythology. Many Jews adopted the Philosophy and Christians the Mythology.

The Jews of the First Century did not expect anything from Jesus, because Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah. Paul claimed it for him about 30 years after he had gone.

There is a consensus that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is the Messiah. If you believe so, mind you that Isaiah identifies that Servant with Israel by name. (Isa. 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4) Therefore, there is no need to wait for an individual Messiah. The Messiah is collective in the People of Israel.**

 

[w_stewart]

I didn’t understand the first question.

I was asking for evidence.

Regarding the miracles, right. Everything happens naturally. Can you tell me about any miracle that happened before your eyes? No, you can’t. Isn’t it interesting that they are always told by others or written down for having happened in the long past? The point is that natural events eventually metamorphose into miracles.

How about the manna thing? The division of the Red Sea? The revival of a man who touched the bones of Elisha?

These were not miracles, right?

 

[w_stewart]

So, the Church was wrong. So, the Church failed. So, the Church is no longer infallible. So, the Church is not worthy listening to. So, the Church abused of its authority even to rewrite the text and change what it is written. That’s a fall!

Was the Pope proposing any teaching to be repealed in connection with his asking for forgiveness?

Did the Pope admit the Church has committed doctrinal error?

Did the Pope admit the Church rewrote the Gospels?

 

[avflf]

Was the Pope proposing any teaching to be repealed in connection with his asking for forgiveness?

Did the Pope admit the Church has committed doctrinal error?

Did the Pope admit the Church rewrote the Gospels?

Heh, heh, heh… whatever the Pope apologized for it made the Jews so happy that they lowered the rent of the Vatican.

 

[Lapell]

Lapell, please, let us get serious, will ya?

My question is serious, Ben! Why can’t you answer that one, tell me?

 

[Lapell]

What kind of question is that, Lapell? What makes you think we have done away with God’s Commandments? And talking about the love of God with all our heart! The opposite is rather true. I have doubled my love of God and His Law since I left Diaspora and returned home.

I was refering to an argument by Jews opposed to Sionism. Now since you are back to Eretz Yisroel, have you also doubled your love for your neighbours, including your gentile neighbours and your Jewish neighbours from the Diaspora? Can you treat them more like adults than like children when they utter things you don’t agree with? That would be a great improvement, and a sign of a greater love, for one thing…

 

[Lapell]

To say you doubled your love for God if you haven’t done the same thing for your neighbour would mean you are under quite a false illusion, my friend…

 

[Ben_Masada]

I was asking for evidence.

How about the manna thing? The division of the Red Sea? The revival of a man who touched the bones of Elisha?

These were not miracles, right?

**All those things above, except for the case of Elisha, have been proved naturally. These things are like snow balls in an avalanshe from the top of a mountain. When they get to the bottom they are enormous.

Regarding the bones of Elisha, it’s a legend in the chronicles of the Prophets. It makes no sense to think of it literally, because then, an explanation why the tomb of Elisha was open showing his bones for another corpse to be thrown on the top of it will become necessary. Legends are not lies. Smoke sometimes can rise from where there is no fire, or the fire was too small far in the past. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

Was the Pope proposing any teaching to be repealed in connection with his asking for forgiveness?

Did the Pope admit the Church has committed doctrinal error?

Did the Pope admit the Church rewrote the Gospels?

All your questions are answered positively in the Pope’s request for forgiveness. He could not change what has been writter about the false accusation that the Jewish People have crucified Jesus, but in his request was the admittance of error. And that’s a doctrinal error. Most Scholars are aware of the Church’s allowance to forge in the name of piety. That’s what they call pious forgery for the good of the Church.