The Mystery Of The Empty Tomb

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Ben_Masada said:
Very good! In that case explain verse 31 to me, justaposed to verse 44.
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You can’t make abstraction of that group’s strong reaction in verse 33. It seemed to have triggered the rest of what Jesus said. Why did they answer the way they did: “We are Abraham’s descendants. We have never been anyone’s slaves.” Can you explain this to me?
 
Ben_Masada said:
Very good! In that case explain verse 31 to me, justaposed to verse 44.
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Juxtaposition here would miss one thing or two very important. Ben. You HAVE to take into account what’s between these two verses in this case. You are doing like in some news where they put short clips together, changing the meaning of the message delivered to the media. Many people seeing what was done with what they shared with the journalist often went angry at them and their having been dishonest with them. I heard myself such people personally, Ben.
 
Lapell said:
Juxtaposition here would miss one thing or two very important. Ben. You HAVE to take into account what’s between these two verses in this case. You are doing like in some news where they put short clips together, changing the meaning of the message delivered to the media. Many people seeing what was done with what they shared with the journalist often went angry at them and their having been dishonest with them. I heard myself such people personally, Ben.
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Please don’t become one of those people. What they do is bearing false witness to the people. And don’t thing they will never go unpunished. If they are not in this world, I’d rather not be in their shoes in the next. Eternity is a very long time. You don’t believe it, Ben, but when you see it, you’ll see what I mean. Don’t tempt your God!
 
Lapell said:
You haven’t answered me as to why those Jews reacted so much to what Jesus was saying in John 8,31-32…
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They didn’t. That dialogue never took place. Too many contradictions and lots of unJewish fabrications of Greek Mythology.
 
Lapell said:
You can’t make abstraction of that group’s strong reaction in verse 33. It seemed to have triggered the rest of what Jesus said. Why did they answer the way they did: “We are Abraham’s descendants. We have never been anyone’s slaves.” Can you explain this to me?
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Probably the guy who wrote that gospel was so stupid tha he did not know the History of the Jews as slaves in Egypt.
 
Lapell said:
What do you mean? I don’t understand. Where’s the “contradiction” in John 8,31-32?
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How could Jesus be talking to the Jews who had believed in him, and call them children of the Devil? (John 8:31,44) That’s the contradiction.
 
Lapell said:
Juxtaposition here would miss one thing or two very important. Ben. You HAVE to take into account what’s between these two verses in this case. You are doing like in some news where they put short clips together, changing the meaning of the message delivered to the media. Many people seeing what was done with what they shared with the journalist often went angry at them and their having been dishonest with them. I heard myself such people personally, Ben.
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You haven’t explained a thing of what I asked.
 
Lapell said:
Please don’t become one of those people. What they do is bearing false witness to the people. And don’t thing they will never go unpunished. If they are not in this world, I’d rather not be in their shoes in the next. Eternity is a very long time. You don’t believe it, Ben, but when you see it, you’ll see what I mean. Don’t tempt your God!
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Eternity only God has it. What we have is our span of life which God has allowed us to live. So, let us live it well and allow others to live their lives as well.
 
Ben_Masada said:
**One thing facing each other for comparison. Lapell understood it. Are you going to disappoint me? **
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I wondered if that is what you meant but I actually saw another possibility that is why I asked you clarify.
 
Ben_Masada said:
They didn’t. That dialogue never took place. Too many contradictions and lots of unJewish fabrications of Greek Mythology.
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Listen, Y. Ben Masada! You know as well as I do that even though the Jews were “supposed” to be acting certain ways, they often chose to act otherwise in real life at some point.
Also, on the contrary, I think those Jews act very Jewishly: they couldn’t help speak their mind, I believe the reaction of these Jews is quite in character with the way Jews would react to certain things. And so I think it may have happened that way.
 
Ben_Masada said:
They didn’t. That dialogue never took place. Too many contradictions and lots of unJewish fabrications of Greek Mythology.
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What makes you so sure that dialogue NEVER took place, my friend? Whatever it is, it’s some information you got elsewhere, not in just the Scriptures! So much for “sola Scriptura”…
 
Ben_Masada said:
Eternity only God has it. What we have is our span of life which God has allowed us to live. So, let us live it well and allow others to live their lives as well.
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Better to live according to God’s guidance. As for our share in eternity, that’s one of His promises. Not just the Christians’, yours too, Jews. And anybody who turns to Him and change his life for His sake will also have a share…
 
Do you actually know WHY you do the misvoth you do “for God’s sake”? Or is it a routine and you forgot the why?
 
Lapell said:
What makes you so sure that dialogue NEVER took place, my friend? Whatever it is, it’s some information you got elsewhere, not in just the Scriptures! So much for “sola Scriptura”…
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A Jew would never equate himself with God. A Jew would never say that before Abraham was born, he was. These are Hellenistic expressions of the Gentile who wrote that gospel. And a Rabbi or Master would never call those who believed in him, children of the Devil. And Jesus, as a Jew, would never use such an expression because Jews don’t belielve in devils. And if the writer was a Jew, he would never claim that God came down in the flesh of a man. Jews are Monotheistic and a little more intelligent than that.
 
Ben_Masada said:
A Jew would never equate himself with God. A Jew would never say that before Abraham was born, he was. These are Hellenistic expressions of the Gentile who wrote that gospel. And a Rabbi or Master would never call those who believed in him, children of the Devil. And Jesus, as a Jew, would never use such an expression because Jews don’t belielve in devils. And if the writer was a Jew, he would never claim that God came down in the flesh of a man. Jews are Monotheistic and a little more intelligent than that.
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There is no reason for an ordinary Jew to claim to be equal to God. But God can make himself a Jew by being born with a woman Jew. Nothing is impossible with God. Only Jews who could not accept that Christ is the Messiah put limitation to God’s power.
 
Ben_Masada said:
How could Jesus be talking to the Jews who had believed in him, and call them children of the Devil? (John 8:31,44) That’s the contradiction.
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31 Then Jesus said to those Jews, who believed him: If you continue in my word, you shall be my disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him: We are the seed of Abraham, and we have never been slaves to any man: how sayest thou: you shall be free? 34 Jesus answered them: Amen, amen I say unto you: that whosoever committeth sin, is the servant of sin. 35 Now the servant abideth not in the house for ever; but the son abideth for ever.

36 If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. 37 I know that you are the children of Abraham: but you seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do the things that you have seen with your father. 39 They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.

41 You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: 43 Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But if I say the truth, you believe me not.

Come on Ben! You are twisting the verses. From verses 31 - 35 Jesus was talking to the Jews who believed him. From verses 36-44, he was speaking with the Jews who refused to believe him.

It appears that there were at least two groups of Jews Jesus had spoken with in that occassion.
 
w_stewart said:
There is no reason for an ordinary Jew to claim to be equal to God. But God can make himself a Jew by being born with a woman Jew. Nothing is impossible with God. Only Jews who could not accept that Christ is the Messiah put limitation to God’s power.
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I put no limitation to God’s power. God can come down incarnated even as a cow, according to Hindhuism. But why should He have come in the flesh of a Jew, because you or Paul have decided so? You are trying to control what God should do or should have done. It just doesn’t go that way. Capicci?
 
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