The Mystery Of The Empty Tomb

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ben_Masada
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
KyivAndrew said:
You seem to accept Acts as a legitimate source to use in defense of your case. Before St. Paul even arrived on the scene, Acts tells us in Chapter 4, that Peter and John were arrested for "teaching that Jesus had risen from death, which proved that the dead will rise to life…
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
w_stewart said:
Your sense of humor amazes me all this time.

Christ attacked the hypocrisy of the Jewish priests. Because their pride was offended, they killed Jesus.

This is not Hellenistic innovation. This is a fact.
Click to expand...
This is a lie of the gospel writers who were anti-Semite Gentiles. It does not make sense that the Jewish leaders would kill a fellow Jew who came to confirm the most important thing in the life of a Jew, which is God’s Law. It would be a contradiction that you could never explain.
 
Ben_Masada said:
Jews do not believe in physical resurrection. The resurrection we believe is according to Ezekiel 37:12. When we decide to leave the graves of the nations and return to the Land of Israel. Nobody can be raised from death. God would not contradict His own Word.
Click to expand...
Dear Ben, we have been through this before. You should not pretend to speak for all of Judaism. Many Jews today believe in physical resurrection (the Hasidim, Orthodox) after death, just as many Jews in the past believed it (Rashi), just as many Jews during Christ’s time believed it (Book of Maccabees). Why lecture us on Christianity when there are multitudes of Jews who believe in physical resurrection after death unlike you? What, are they “stupid” too because you have a personal monopoly on the tenets of Judaism? In your view, they are just wrong-headed Jews, correct?

As for your belief that Israel is the Messiah – why has this not ushered in the Messianic Age? Why in Israel are the 613 Mitzvot not being practiced now that the Messiah is here? Why aren’t any of the commandments on punishments enumerated in the Tanakh not being practiced. If the Messiah has already come in the form of Israel, why aren’t the conditions of the Messianic Age predicted in the Tanakh not being fulfilled right now?

God Bless.
 
Ben_Masada said:
What is shocking to me is for Gentiles to insult Judaism by picking up a Jew and making a Greek demigod out of him as if Greek Mythology is possible in Judaism.
Click to expand...
Be shocked, then, for except Luke, all the Gospel writers were Jewish. But the Gospels were not intended for disciples of Jewish origin only…
 
w_stewart said:
Where is your evidence?
Click to expand...
That the Apostles were Nazarenes? From a quote of the Acts of the Apostles where an attorney by the name Tertullius about Paulbeing a leader of the Nazarenes.(Acts 24, 5)!
But Stu,then I mentioned it to our friend, he said Tertullius was all mixed up even though the High Priest and a couple of members of the Jewish Council ( the Sanhedrin ) let the governor Felix that his presentation of the case was accurate and that Paul himself never protested on that particular point. What’s Ben Masada’s positive evidence, if there is any, that Paul was not a “Nazarene”? I don’t believe he has any…
 
Ben_Masada said:
This is a lie of the gospel writers who were anti-Semite Gentiles. It does not make sense that the Jewish leaders would kill a fellow Jew who came to confirm the most important thing in the life of a Jew, which is God’s Law. It would be a contradiction that you could never explain.
Click to expand...
It may not make sense to you, but indeed it happened! We have not made this up, neither did the Jewish writers of the Gospel, not even Luke the Gentile. You want not to believe us nor the Gospels, it’s one thing and you are free to do it. But as to convince all the Christians that it was a lie, which it wasn’t, you’re on your own. You might convince a few of us, but that won’t change the truth. Oh, no!
 
And that one can explain why the truth is true, not false, or that he can’t explain why he is so sure that the truth is true, not false, it doesn’t change a single thing to the Truth itself. It will remain true whatever you and me could say about it.
 
Lapell said:
Oh yeah? Why did God say that His temple shall be a house of prayers for all nations?
(That’s in the OT, not in the NT!)
Click to expand...
Can’t seem to find this one … lots on worship in Psalms and Isaiah but no “house of prayer”. Don’t matter though, the worship is good enough. Those that wrote the Book fancied themselves and expected that they would eventually take control of the world and force everyone to worship their God their way. They looked upon themselves as “a nation of kings and priests” - the rulers and law makers - and believed sincerely that all nations would be ruled from Jerusalem “for out of Zion shall go forth the Law and the word of the LORD out of Jerusalem”. And they still believe it …
 
avflf said:
Those that wrote the Book fancied themselves and expected that they would eventually take control of the world and force everyone to worship their God their way. They looked upon themselves as “a nation of kings and priests” - the rulers and law makers - and believed sincerely that all nations would be ruled from Jerusalem “for out of Zion shall go forth the Law and the word of the LORD out of Jerusalem”. And they still believe it …
Click to expand...
I would doubt so since some were quite surprised by what God wanted. For instance, mercy for Niniveh in the Book of Jonas… Prophet Elijah being sent to a non-Israelite widow in Zarephath (in the land of Sidon) (1 Kings 17) …Prophet Elisha obtaining Naaman the Syrian’s purification by having him bathe 7 times into the river Jordan (2 Kings 5) Not the priests of Jerusalem!
 
Lapell said:
That the Apostles were Nazarenes? From a quote of the Acts of the Apostles where an attorney by the name Tertullius about Paulbeing a leader of the Nazarenes.(Acts 24, 5)!
But Stu,then I mentioned it to our friend, he said Tertullius was all mixed up even though the High Priest and a couple of members of the Jewish Council ( the Sanhedrin ) let the governor Felix that his presentation of the case was accurate and that Paul himself never protested on that particular point. What’s Ben Masada’s positive evidence, if there is any, that Paul was not a “Nazarene”? I don’t believe he has any…
Click to expand...
I was asking for evidence to support his claim that the Nazarenes did not preach about the God Incarnate.
 
Ben_Masada said:
This is a lie of the gospel writers who were anti-Semite Gentiles. It does not make sense that the Jewish leaders would kill a fellow Jew who came to confirm the most important thing in the life of a Jew, which is God’s Law. It would be a contradiction that you could never explain.
Click to expand...
No, no, no, no!

The priests sought to kill him because he claimed he was the Son of God, making himself equal to God.
 
KyivAndrew said:
Dear Ben, we have been through this before. You should not pretend to speak for all of Judaism. Many Jews today believe in physical resurrection (the Hasidim, Orthodox) after death, just as many Jews in the past believed it (Rashi), just as many Jews during Christ’s time believed it (Book of Maccabees). Why lecture us on Christianity when there are multitudes of Jews who believe in physical resurrection after death unlike you? What, are they “stupid” too because you have a personal monopoly on the tenets of Judaism? In your view, they are just wrong-headed Jews, correct?

As for your belief that Israel is the Messiah – why has this not ushered in the Messianic Age? Why in Israel are the 613 Mitzvot not being practiced now that the Messiah is here? Why aren’t any of the commandments on punishments enumerated in the Tanakh not being practiced. If the Messiah has already come in the form of Israel, why aren’t the conditions of the Messianic Age predicted in the Tanakh not being fulfilled right now?

God Bless.
Click to expand...
**Regarding Jews who believe in physical resurrection, if it is from the Scriptures, you are going to provide me quotations. Those of today, I must discuss the issue with them. There must be some kind of misunderstanding here. They must be hyphenated Jews. I mean, those who have accepted the things of Christianity and insist on being identified as Jews. Although, it’s possible that there are some supertitious Jews but still mal-informed.

As far as Messianic Age is concern, you ought to consider where we - you and I - come from. Your understanding of Messianic Age is too Christian. Something to remind of that Utopia of the Millenium after Jesus’ second coming. Our idea of Messianic Age is extremely simple. Perhaps because of our History of worldly persecutions and suffering, Messianic Age for us is only to have our own Country back, where we can observe God’s Law without any form of constraint.

The conditions of the Messianic Age predicted in the Tanakh, are subjected to interpretations. Again, because of our total difference of ideology, how you see is not how we do. And for the commandment and punishments, there is a small difference in effect since the establishment of the New Covenant when the Jewish People returned from exile in Babylon. The Jewish Clergy has no longer a voice in the punishment of broken
commandments. The Sanhedrin functions now as regular Courts of Law in the application of punishments. **
 
Lapell said:
Be shocked, then, for except Luke, all the Gospel writers were Jewish. But the Gospels were not intended for disciples of Jewish origin only…
Click to expand...
Believe me Lapell, if I ever became 100 percent sure that the gospel writers were Jewish, I would leave Judaism. If they had been Jewish, it would mean the collapse of Judaism.
 
Lapell said:
That the Apostles were Nazarenes? From a quote of the Acts of the Apostles where an attorney by the name Tertullius about Paulbeing a leader of the Nazarenes.(Acts 24, 5)!
But Stu,then I mentioned it to our friend, he said Tertullius was all mixed up even though the High Priest and a couple of members of the Jewish Council ( the Sanhedrin ) let the governor Felix that his presentation of the case was accurate and that Paul himself never protested on that particular point. What’s Ben Masada’s positive evidence, if there is any, that Paul was not a “Nazarene”? I don’t believe he has any…
Click to expand...
**Not so fast! I do have the evidences to show that Paul was NOT a Nazarene. But first, why did the Jewish Attorney Tertullius connect him as a ringleader of the Nazarenes?

It happens that, 14 years prior to this present arrest, which ended with Paul in Court, he had returned from Damascus, where he had spent three years spreading his weed. (Gal. 1:17,18)

He arrived in Jerusalem trying to join the Sect of the Nazarenes because his best friend of youth, Barnabas, was a VIP member of the Sect.

At first, the Apostles did not believe him and were afraid of him because of his history as persecutor of the Nazarenes. But Barnabas mediated for him to be accepted, and he was allowed on a trial basis. Perhaps monitored by Barnabas. (Acts 9:27)

Who could monitor Paul? Within 15 days he wreaked such a havoc in Jerusalem that the local Jews were on an uproar to arrest him to bring him to trial for preaching apostasy in Jerusalem. Paul was preaching about Jesus as Christ, son of God, and that he had resurrected. (Gal. 1:18)

Since he had been allowed to stay in Jerusalem in connection with the Nazarene headquarters, James and the Elders were afraid he would get the whole Sect in trouble with meanstream Judaism, they took him down to Caesarea, and from there, back to Tarsus where he belonged. (Acts 9:30)

Now, 14 years afterwards, he was back, and got arrested in the Temple and taken to the Sanhedrin. (Gal. 2:1) Tertullius had never met Paul, but from hearsay about what he had done 14 years ago, and that he had escaped Justice with the help of James and the Elders of the Nazarenes, he just found convenient to connect him as a ringleader of the Nazarenes. (Acts 24:5) But the truth is that the only time Paul was connected with the Nazarenes was during those 15 days 14 years ago. (Acts 9:28-31) **
 
avflf said:
Can’t seem to find this one … lots on worship in Psalms and Isaiah but no “house of prayer”. Don’t matter though, the worship is good enough. Those that wrote the Book fancied themselves and expected that they would eventually take control of the world and force everyone to worship their God their way. They looked upon themselves as “a nation of kings and priests” - the rulers and law makers - and believed sincerely that all nations would be ruled from Jerusalem “for out of Zion shall go forth the Law and the word of the LORD out of Jerusalem”. And they still believe it …
Click to expand...
Excuse me Avflf, allow me to give you a hand. The quote you need is found in Isaiah 56:7.
 
w_stewart said:
I was asking for evidence to support his claim that the Nazarenes did not preach about the God Incarnate.
Click to expand...
And I recall to have told you that if the Nazarenes preached about such a mythological idea, they would not be able to have their headquarters in Jerusalem. Evidence of the fact, is that when Paul brought that idea to Jerusalem, he almost got killed. There is no stronger evidence than this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top