The mystical proof of God

[Mystic3]

God is a mystery that can be seen and understand only by enlightenment. One can see God only in enlightenment. The Bible says: “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” Who cleans his heart (his mind) with spiritual exercises, enters the dimension of God and sees God. You must be a saint (an enlightened one), to be able to know God in depth. A proof of God is therefore ultimately possible only through enlightenment. With funding of physics or logic, we can describe God very limited and therefore can prove God only some aspects of God. Science cannot explore more than circumstantial evidences for God. If one really want to know whether God exists, one must realize enlightenment. Or one has to trust the enlightened as witnesses for God. There is no other way for the proof of God. God is proven by the enlightened. And there are many witnesses.

God can not be proven, because God is a mystery, and goes beyond the normal human understanding (the rational thinking, the four-dimensional system of thinking). What we can do is to prove enlightenment. That is enough. In the enlightenment, we learn that we are not only on a higher level of relaxation, but in a higher cosmic dimension. And an enlightened can test this. He gets special abilities. There are many levels of enlightenment. The more one grows in his enlightenment, the more abilities one has. These abilities have something to do with omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere) and omnibenevolence (perfect goodness).

Wikipedia: Mysticism is the knowledge of, and especially the personal experience of, states of consciousness, or levels of being, or aspects of reality, beyond normal human perception, including experience of and even communion with a supreme being. (…) Many if not all of the world’s great religions have arisen around the teachings of mystics (including Buddha, Jesus, Lao Tze, and Krishna); and most religious traditions describe fundamental mystical experience.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_(spiritual

1st Enlightenment occurs when the tension in the body and mind are dissolved. In the Bible, this is described with the words: “God is found in silence.” The tensions are caused by the stress of life and mental false reactions. Tensions can lead to mental abnormalities (neuroses) and psychosomatic illnesses.

2nd You can put it like this: “An unenlightened person is inwardly sick (not a holy, he has tensions in his body and his mind). An enlightened is inwardly healthy (whole, a holy).”

3rd Meditation and mental work are the two main techniques to resolve inner tensions. In meditation, there are various techniques. You can work with visualisations. Positive images can resolve internal tensions and mental disorder. The center the meditation is inner peace. Then all of the stored stress ultimately emerge by itself and dissolve.

4th The enlightened mind is characterized by inner peace. God is therefore no concept, but from the inner peace unfolds a higher consciousness. One can suddenly think better. The tensions are eliminated. The mental capacity is multiplied. One can think holistically (excluding an ego from the entire cosmic system).

5th By the purified mind he can recognize what God is. God is not a concept but the basic perception of man. A person sees all things as they really are. He sees everything in context. Where previously a man by his ego was fixated on himself, he now thinks and feels egoless as one with the cosmos.

6th If the tensions disappear in man, from the deep inner peace arises a deep inner happiness. The man is one with himself and the world. He feels peace, happiness, strength, love and clarity in himself. He has a higher perception. He can suddenly think above the higher dimensions in the cosmos. The space-time limitation is lifted. He can see in the past and future. He can see things in distant places. And he can transmit thoughts and energies to other persons. An enlightened sees God as light in the world. He recognizes that there is a higher consciousness that permeates and directs everything. He is in his consciousness connected with God.

 

[paduard]

I am not sure that you are referrring to a type of mystical contemplative state; the standard Roman Catholic response being that such cannot be ‘acquired’ but can only be ‘infused’ directly by Almighty God.

God Bless your studies.

 

[empther]

The universe could not have come into existence without God.

There’s nothing mysterious about that.

 

[bzkoss236]

If you believe that Jesus is only a mystic and isn’t the Son of God being both Man and God, is our Lord, and Savior, then I’m not sure you can really describe yourself as a Christian, at least by the majority definition of Christian. I’m not entirely sure all of what your exact beliefs are, but I’m just trying to understand why you call yourself a “christian mystic”.

Aside from that, we also believe that the existence of God can be proven through reason (as long as you keep an open mind to the possibility to the existence of God) and the rest of the attributes of God can only be revealed by God.

 

[po18guy]

Mysticism is in the spiritual realm. Much danger lies there. One third of spirits are liars and seek only your destruction. This earth is their realm. They roam it. They deceive. Heaven and the Lord’s presence is the realm of the majority. We have been given the Holy Spirit, Who leads to all truth. Consider that for a moment: “all truth.”

It must be through Him, and only through Him, that we seek the truth, lest we be deceived. In our mortal lives, the truth will not be arrived at through any other spirit. If you need proof of God in the mystical realm, it may be found in the presence of Christ. It is as close as your nearest Catholic Parish.

What I speak of is the adoration of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, accompanied by the Holy Spirit. Wiki is an earthly spirit. Seek the heavenly Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

I am not sure that you are referrring to a type of mystical contemplative state; the standard Roman Catholic response being that such cannot be ‘acquired’ but can only be ‘infused’ directly by Almighty God.

God Bless your studies.

yes, we can seek God earnestly but even then we don’t reach a point where mystical experiences will necessarily occur. In the end the decision is His-and the experiences are gifts-given according to His will and for His purposes.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

There is certainly value in the mystical life. The history of the Catholic Church has had many mystics. I am making no judgment about your particular brand of mysticism because I don’t know anything about it and besides I am not mystical in the least.

But when you say we cannot prove God exists you are dead wrong. I grant you that mystics may have a greater appreciation about the nature of God but I assure you based on Catholic teaching that no one in this life, mystic or not, is able to " see " God or experience God " as he is. " Any mysticism that promotes that is peddeling heresay.

 

[Mystic3]

I am not sure that you are referrring to a type of mystical contemplative state; the standard Roman Catholic response being that such cannot be ‘acquired’ but can only be ‘infused’ directly by Almighty God. God Bless your studies.

Thank you. God bless you too. Surely I am a mystic. I saw God. I got the experience of God. I got it by the grace of God. I sought God. I did spiritual exercises. But most it was grace.

The universe could not have come into existence without God. There’s nothing mysterious about that.

Something made this universe. That is sure. But what it was, that can be discussed. We can not comprehend it. We are part of the universe and cannot look beyond. And at last it is not an important question. Important for us is the question what the sense of life is. How shall we live? I am looking for happiness. And the happiest life I found in God. The sense of life is to seek God and to live in God. God exists. Enlightenment exists. It is possible to live in God.

If you believe that Jesus is only a mystic and isn’t the Son of God being both Man and God, is our Lord, and Savior, then I’m not sure you can really describe yourself as a Christian, at least by the majority definition of Christian. I’m not entirely sure all of what your exact beliefs are, but I’m just trying to understand why you call yourself a “christian mystic”.

Jesus is not only a mystic. He has realized enlightenment. He lives in God. And therefor he can be called a Son of God. Every complete enlightened is a son or daughter of God. I am a Christian, because I orientate myself on Jesus and his teachings. I am so intensively one with Jesus, that he appeared in my room and flow into me.

Mysticism is in the spiritual realm. Much danger lies there. One third of spirits are liars and seek only your destruction. This earth is their realm. They roam it. They deceive. Heaven and the Lord’s presence is the realm of the majority. We have been given the Holy Spirit, Who leads to all truth.

We have to pray daily to God or to Jesus. Then we are protected and will be lead into the light.

yes, we can seek God earnestly but even then we don’t reach a point where mystical experiences will necessarily occur. In the end the decision is His-and the experiences are gifts-given according to His will and for His purposes.

God comes by grace and by spiritual exercises. Both belongs together.

There is certainly value in the mystical life. The history of the Catholic Church has had many mystics.

That is right.

I am making no judgment about your particular brand of mysticism because I don’t know anything about it and besides I am not mystical in the least. But when you say we cannot prove God exists you are dead wrong. I grant you that mystics may have a greater appreciation about the nature of God but I assure you based on Catholic teaching that no one in this life, mystic or not, is able to " see " God or experience God " as he is. "

If you are not a mystical, you don’t know God in his depth. God is proven by the mystics, because they see him. Jesus was a mystic, and he saw God as he is. You can experience God through the grace of God.

 

[empther]

If you are not a mystical, you don’t know God in his depth. :bigyikes:

Oh really? So a mystic is closer to God than Joan of Arc, who was quoted by the Catechism? ……………
http://old.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p2.shtml
Paragraph 795:

Christ and his Church thus together make up the “whole Christ” (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:

A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: “About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they’re just one thing, and we shouldn’t complicate the matter.”

Joan of Arc was completely illiterate. “I don’t know A from B” she admitted. But neither did she waste lots of time philosophizing nitpicking points like we do on these forums. She was fully devoted to God and spent all her waking hours doiing his will. She probably has a high place in Heaven. I’m bringing a telescope so I can look up and see her.

God is proven by the mystics, because they see him.

Joan of Arc had hundreds of visions, sometimes several a day.

Jesus was a mystic

Jesus had the beatific vision, and therefore nothing was a mystery to him.

 

[bzkoss236]

Jesus is not only a mystic. He has realized enlightenment. He lives in God. And therefor he can be called a Son of God. Every complete enlightened is a son or daughter of God. I am a Christian, because I orientate myself on Jesus and his teachings. I am so intensively one with Jesus, that he appeared in my room and flow into me.

Being ‘A’ Son of God is also against regular Christian theology, because we view Jesus as THE Son of God and the second person in the trinity. I feel you are treading on thin ice my friend, and I would doubt the spirits you’ve seen. We are told to “test the spirits” because many deceitful spirits exist to make you stray from the path of the Lord. The Bible (An authority for all Christians) also mentions that those who would see God would perish. And those that say they saw God were speaking metaphorically in that they experienced a revelation from God. Saying that you can become one with God by way of enlightenment is heresy, and I would suggest you seek real Truth as revealed to God by his established Church. I will pray for you, my friend.

 

[JDaniel]

Thank you. God bless you too. Surely I am a mystic. I saw God. I got the experience of God. I got it by the grace of God. I sought God. I did spiritual exercises. But most it was grace.

Mystic:

I, too, have had mystical experiences - at least three, and all when I was around 20 yo. It is interesting to me when others speak of mystical experiences because I can’t help but compare theirs to mine. In many cases, the so-called experience is so different from mine that I have no choice but to disbelieve them. I don’t think real mystical experiences can be so dissimilar.

I’ve had longish conversations with two people that claimed to have had mystical experiences, too. I tend to believe them. Why? Because their experiences were quite parallel to mine. But, I’ve heard and read others whose experiences were too gaudy, too movielandish. When I hear, or read, such descriptions I begin thinking: "What’s wrong with me that my experiences were not as grandiose? What did I do that was different from what they did? After a while, I came to the conclusion that mine were probably real, and theirs (the grandiose ones) were probably fabrications. So, therefore, I’m very cautious when someone tells me “they’ve seen God” in one or more of their experiences.

Something made this universe. That is sure. But what it was, that can be discussed. We can not comprehend it. We are part of the universe and cannot look beyond. And at last it is not an important question. Important for us is the question what the sense of life is. How shall we live? I am looking for happiness. And the happiest life I found in God. The sense of life is to seek God and to live in God. God exists. Enlightenment exists. It is possible to live in God.

To be honest, whenever anyone speaks to me about “enlightenment” as something other than what normally happens to the minds of men upon learning, I tend to think of it as snake oil. Pardon the offensive overtone, it really is not my intent to offend you.

Jesus is not only a mystic. He has realized enlightenment. He lives in God. And therefor he can be called a Son of God. Every complete enlightened is a son or daughter of God. I am a Christian, because I orientate myself on Jesus and his teachings. I am so intensively one with Jesus, that he appeared in my room and flow into me.

(1) So, your’s is a lite version of Christianity? (2) Jesus was just one of many men who were enlightened? (3) Do you believe that he died for us? (4) Do you believe that he came back from the dead? (5) Do you believe that he is much more than merely said to be “in God?” (6) Do you believe that he was crucified? (7) Do you believe that by his actions, all men could be freed from sin? (8) Do you believe that “sin” exists? (9) Do you believe that it will take more than ‘enlightenment’ to see God’s face? (10) Do you believe in Penance?

We have to pray daily to God or to Jesus. Then we are protected and will be lead into the light.

Can we do this from within a state of sin?

God comes by grace and by spiritual exercises. Both belongs together.

Do you believe that “grace” is the free Gift of God? Besides ‘enlightenment’, how else can it be earned?

If you are not a mystical, you don’t know God in his depth. God is proven by the mystics, because they see him. Jesus was a mystic, and he saw God as he is. You can experience God through the grace of God.

Do you read the Bible? Why would God single out Christ, considering the fact that we are all God’s children, to be one with him and the Holy Spirit? Why do you think he would commission men to go out “baptizing in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit”? Do you think some other person could be substituted for Jesus as “Son?”

Sorry if this sounds like a test. It is, in that I can’t know of your affinity for the mystical, But, I can know of your affinity for Christianity. Please be aware that this forum often gets people who make certain claims only to ultimately show their true colors. Mysticism is very important to most Christians and we want to be sure. OK?

God bless,
jd

 

[empther]

I’ve had mystical experiences!

I’ve lost jobs, been lied to, been lied about, fired for something I didn’t do, lost huge amounts of money,
and why all these things happened is a complete mystery to me! :bigyikes: :banghead:

But I wouldn’t change my life for the life of a “mystic”.
“Increase and multiply” were God’s first words to Adam and Eve. Our work is in this world. Only people who withdraw from the world, like cloistered nuns, can walk around with their heads in the clouds.

 

[po18guy]

We have to pray daily to God or to Jesus. Then we are protected and will be lead into the light.

Ah, yes, but who answers us? An angel reportedly spoke to both Muhammad and Joseph Smith, but 12 centuries apart. Although I strongly suspect that these spirits were one and the same, was it telling the truth?

We must pray, and then test the spirits. We will know them by their fruits.

 

[fhansen]

I’ve had mystical experiences!

I’ve lost jobs, been lied to, been lied about, fired for something I didn’t do, lost huge amounts of money,
and why all these things happened is a complete mystery to me! :bigyikes: :banghead:

But I wouldn’t change my life for the life of a “mystic”.
“Increase and multiply” were God’s first words to Adam and Eve. Our work is in this world. Only people who withdraw from the world, like cloistered nuns, can walk around with their heads in the clouds.

Actually God’s granted such experiences to otherwise very practical and hard-working people; St Teresa of Avila comes to mind. She had a heart for God but was also
quite down to earth, enduring all the day to day mundane struggles of establishing and running convents and dealing with a lot of challenging personalities. But even much more ordinary folk have also been gifted in this way, albeit with less frequency probably, for some purpose or another that God has for them.

 

[Mystic3]

So a mystic is closer to God than Joan of Arc, who was quoted by the Catechism? Joan of Arc had hundreds of visions, sometimes several a day. Jesus had the beatific vision, and therefore nothing was a mystery to him.

Joan of Arc was a mystic. Jesus was a mysic. I had the beatific vision too.
JDaniel;9675895:

I’m very cautious when someone tells me “they’ve seen God” in one or more of their experiences. Do you believe that “grace” is the free Gift of God? Besides ‘enlightenment’, how else can it be earned? Do you read the Bible? Sorry if this sounds like a test. It is, in that I can’t know of your affinity for the mystical

, But, I can know of your affinity for Christianity. Mysticism is very important to most Christians and we want to be sure. OK? God bless, jd

It is good to check mystical experiences. It can be real experiences or fantasies. I believe that Jesus has shown us the way. And he has made a great sacrifice for it. Grace is a free gift of God, but we can do our spiritual exercises (praying, meditating, doing good). I read the Bible. I am a christian mystic. You can test me. Mysticism is important for Christianity. God bless you too.

Ah, yes, but who answers us? An angel reportedly spoke to both Muhammad and Joseph Smith, but 12 centuries apart. Although I strongly suspect that these spirits were one and the same, was it telling the truth? We must pray, and then test the spirits

. We will know them by their fruits.

God speaks to us through our inner voice of wisdom. We can think about it and then find out if it is wisdom or not. If it is wisdom and love, it comes from God. Everybody has to decide by his own, what truth is.

Actually God’s granted such experiences to otherwise very practical and hard-working people; St Teresa of Avila comes to mind. She had a heart for God but was also
quite down to earth, enduring all the day to day mundane struggles of establishing and running convents and dealing with a lot of challenging personalities.

I love Teresa of Avila. I am following a similar path.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Enlightenment is a catch 22 like humility since the second you claim to have it you have lost it.

 

[fhansen]

Enlightenment is a catch 22 like humility since the second you claim to have it you have lost it.

Just some observations, which you may already agree with:

Enlightenment can only be a good thing if it means we’ve genuinely gained valuable knowledge. But knowledge can always “puff up”’ -or be a source of pride-as scripture tells us. If a person starts telling us that they now have some sort of complete knowledge of all things we can be assured they’re either self-deluded or trying to gain some personal benefit-by deluding us.

The experiences of Christian mystics are glimpses of God or some revelation He desires to make known to them. They can’t be cultivated other than by having a love of God and a desire to know and love Him even more. In this, humility is already required, so that, as far as I know, God wouldn’t even grant such profound experiences to arrogant types; there’s always a purpose for these events, and He knows how the fruits will blossom beforehand.

However, even with the humblest and truest of subjects, they can often encounter jealousy, skepticism, doubt-and charges of being prideful, if not crazy-coming even from fellow believers. While a certain amount of this is justifiable healthy skepticism, believers should be open to the fact that God can and does operate in this way. I like what Edith Stein, now a Catholic saint herself, exclaimed as she finished reading St Teresa of Avila’s book, “This is the truth!”

 

[JDaniel]

It is good to check mystical experiences. It can be real experiences or fantasies. I believe that Jesus has shown us the way. And he has made a great sacrifice for it. Grace is a free gift of God, but we can do our spiritual exercises (praying, meditating, doing good). I read the Bible. I am a christian mystic. You can test me. Mysticism is important for Christianity. God bless you too.

Mystic:

I notice that you seem to be untestable. You answered only one of my questions and you answered with a platitude. I’m not sure why you’re here, on CAF, but if it’s only to state your case, then you have done so. If you are here to dialog, dialog requires more than mere sermonics.

God bless,
jd

 

[empther]

Originally Posted by empther

forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
So a mystic is closer to God than Joan of Arc, who was quoted by the Catechism? Joan of Arc had hundreds of visions, sometimes several a day. Jesus had the beatific vision, and therefore nothing was a mystery to him.

Mystic3 replied:
Joan of Arc was a mystic. Jesus was a mysic. I had the beatific vision too.

:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:

You can’t be serious!

 

[Mystic3]

Enlightenment is a catch 22 like humility since the second you claim to have it you have lost it.

God always manages it to keep me humble. Enlightenment is a trap when pride arises. I am not permanent enlightened. I only got enough experiences to understand what it is. I am also only on my way to God. I know times of darkness und times of light.

Just some observations, which you may already agree with: Enlightenment can only be a good thing if it means we’ve genuinely gained valuable knowledge. But knowledge can always “puff up”’ -or be a source of pride-as scripture tells us. If a person starts telling us that they now have some sort of complete knowledge of all things we can be assured they’re either self-deluded or trying to gain some personal benefit-by deluding us. The experiences of Christian mystics are glimpses of God or some revelation He desires to make known to them. They can’t be cultivated other than by having a love of God and a desire to know and love Him even more. In this, humility is already required, so that, as far as I know, God wouldn’t even grant such profound experiences to arrogant types; there’s always a purpose for these events, and He knows how the fruits will blossom beforehand. However, even with the humblest and truest of subjects, they can often encounter jealousy, skepticism, doubt-and charges of being prideful, if not crazy-coming even from fellow believers. While a certain amount of this is justifiable healthy skepticism, believers should be open to the fact that God can and does operate in this way. I like what Edith Stein, now a Catholic saint herself, exclaimed as she finished reading St Teresa of Avila’s book, “This is the truth!”

I agree with you. God always destroys my pride. God wants to give christianity the knowledge to be successful in modern times. He wants to give a proof of his existence, which also the atheists and scientists can believe. He showed me all that I need to understand God. What do you really want to know about God?

I notice that you seem to be untestable. You answered only one of my questions and you answered with a platitude. If you are here to dialog, dialog requires more than mere sermonics.

Then ask your question again. And always one at a time. It is difficult to answer, because you are not a mystic, but a dogmatic. And understanding between dogmatic and mystic is not easy to be done. You’ll hear some things you don’t want to hear. In the center of christianity must not be the sin, but the love.