R
Reuben_J
Guest
I would think that the number is symbolic most probably means numerous or infintely numerous. Surely the 72 are insufficient to go around by.
- Status
T
Thorwald
Guest
We seem to forget, that the Bible is a STANDARD set by God, that each and everyone of us will be measured against. If I cannot understand His STANDARD, as it is written, how can I be held accountable on judgment day? There are many personal interpretations of God’s Word (This includes the whole spectrum, of one person up to and including whole religious groups, cults, etc.), and not all can be right. We will believe what we will believe. There are many things written in the NT that every minister avoids. Some of these, are;
- You will be thrown out of the church (This means your own church, not some other church. Jesus was thrown out of His own church.), when you preach the truth, because man loves the darkness. Jesus stated that if they threw the master out, they will surely throw you out.
- Those that He finds worthy, will experience John 14:21-23. Tell me of someone that you know, who has experienced this.
- You will be persecuted, betrayed, etc., etc., for HIs name’s sake.
- You will be hated by the world, as He was. The reason for this, is that He has given you the truth, but others have fallen to the wayside, believing in false teachings, and refuse to change their understanding of the Word. They have become ‘high-headed’ and ‘hard-headed’ in their beliefs.
- Many will be called, but few will be chosen.
- Those that are found worthy until the end, will become sons/daughters of God, and will sit with Christ on His throne as He sits along with His Father on the Father’s throne. Who then become the nations of the world? There is only one answer. Those that are saved, but are not found worthy.
The above, are why I respond in the way that I do, in my threads. The NT scripture tells us, that we need no other man to give us an understanding of God’s Word. We simply have to pray to God for answers. This I do, many times per day. I love Him and fear Him, with all my heart.
E
Eucharisted
Guest
IolI would think that the number is symbolic most probably means numerous or infintely numerous. Surely the 72 are insufficient to go around by.
R
R_not
Guest
mohammed had a ‘thing’ with numbers. It usually had to do with odd numbers though. Who knows where he picked out 72. maybe that is how many wives and/or slaves he had. Who knows. It could go back to his pagan religion and have some significance there.
It is anyone’s guess. I don’t know why these guys haven’t thought about eternity a little bit more - 72 virgins is not a lot of virgins for eternity. It could get really bothersome after 72, or less, days. maybe the little boys fill in the boredom. Who knows.
R
R_not
Guest
There were also other things promised to the poor, overly-heated desert dwellers who probably didn’t always have a full stomach and fresh water all the time who would love some shade too.
mohammed promised flowing rivers of fresh water, all the wine they wanted (so I guess their god took Satan’s stash of wine), the trees would hand them whatever fruit they wanted and they would be shaded - the trees would move, etc. Basically it is about being fully sated in all their bodily organs.
A very carnal paradise. Nothing spiritual, nothing beyond a physical thing.
R
R_not
Guest
Well, I guess the same could be asked of you. Who anointed you to interpret it for us?We seem to forget, that the Bible is a STANDARD set by God, that each and everyone of us will be measured against. If I cannot understand His STANDARD, as it is written, how can I be held accountable on judgment day? There are many personal interpretations of God’s Word (This includes the whole spectrum, of one person up to and including whole religious groups, cults, etc.), and not all can be right. We will believe what we will believe. There are many things written in the NT that every minister avoids. Some of these, are;
The book of Revelation was physically witnessed by John. We are warned not to add to or delete anything. Why would I assume that this book is nothing but ‘symbolism’ or that Genesis chpt 1-3, is likewise? Where does this interpretation come from? Who has anointed themselves to the position to make such a statement?
- You will be thrown out of the church (This means your own church, not some other church. Jesus was thrown out of His own church.), when you preach the truth, because man loves the darkness. Jesus stated that if they threw the master out, they will surely throw you out.
- Those that He finds worthy, will experience John 14:21-23. Tell me of someone that you know, who has experienced this.
- You will be persecuted, betrayed, etc., etc., for HIs name’s sake.
- You will be hated by the world, as He was. The reason for this, is that He has given you the truth, but others have fallen to the wayside, believing in false teachings, and refuse to change their understanding of the Word. They have become ‘high-headed’ and ‘hard-headed’ in their beliefs.
- Many will be called, but few will be chosen.
- Those that are found worthy until the end, will become sons/daughters of God, and will sit with Christ on His throne as He sits along with His Father on the Father’s throne. Who then become the nations of the world? There is only one answer. Those that are saved, but are not found worthy.
The above, are why I respond in the way that I do, in my threads. The NT scripture tells us, that we need no other man to give us an understanding of God’s Word. We simply have to pray to God for answers. This I do, many times per day. I love Him and fear Him, with all my heart.
We don’t doubt that you love God with all your heart or else you wouldn’t be so adamant about your position. But, not all Christians follow your interpretation.
I think you might be a little happier if you ease up a bit. Stick with the subject. If you don’t know islam - do some reading.
faithfreedom.org has articles you can read. or answering-islam.org/
if you like reading the daily news of what is happening worldwide regarding islam/muslims - jihadwatch.org, jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch, and www.frontpagemag.com are a few to get you started.
We look forward to your contributions.
R
R_not
Guest
I made a mistake and posted this - sorry to inconvenience anyone. It was just a copy of the previous post so I deleted it.
S
Sam_777
Guest
Although it might be considered as a myth in general, but at the end its an Islamic fact:
Here are two authentic hadiths supporting that:
1) Musnad Ahmed Hadith #10511:
“The Messenger of Allah may Allah bless him said that the lowest status of the person in Paradise has seven degrees and he is in the sixth one and above him is the seventh, and he has 300 servants, and every day 300 golden food trays served for him, in each tray a food color other than the other one and its delicious from its beginning till its end , and he says O Lord, if you authorize me to feed and give drinks to the people of Paradise it will not reduce from my food anything, and he has of the wives 72 Hours(Virgins) other than his earthy wives, and each Hour(Virgin) has a seat (place) of one earth mile.”
**مسند أحمد
** قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إن أدنى أهل الجنة منزلة إن له لسبع درجات وهو على السادسة وفوقه السابعة وإن له لثلاث مائة خادم ويغدى عليه ويراح كل يوم ثلاث مائة صحفة ولا أعلمه إلا قال من ذهب في كل صحفة لون ليس في الأخرى وإنه ليلذ أوله كما يلذ آخره وإنه ليقول يا رب لو أذنت لي لأطعمت أهل الجنة وسقيتهم لم ينقص مما عندي شيء وإن له من الحور العين لاثنين وسبعين زوجة سوى أزواجه من الدنيا وإن الواحدة منهن ليأخذ مقعدها قدر ميل من الأرض
** قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إن أدنى أهل الجنة منزلة إن له لسبع درجات وهو على السادسة وفوقه السابعة وإن له لثلاث مائة خادم ويغدى عليه ويراح كل يوم ثلاث مائة صحفة ولا أعلمه إلا قال من ذهب في كل صحفة لون ليس في الأخرى وإنه ليلذ أوله كما يلذ آخره وإنه ليقول يا رب لو أذنت لي لأطعمت أهل الجنة وسقيتهم لم ينقص مما عندي شيء وإن له من الحور العين لاثنين وسبعين زوجة سوى أزواجه من الدنيا وإن الواحدة منهن ليأخذ مقعدها قدر ميل من الأرض
(A)
2) Sunan Altermizy Hadith #2485:
“The Messenger of Allah may Allah bless him said that the lowest person in Paradise has 80,000 servants and 72 wives, and a dome from pearl, peridot, and ruby as the distance between the Jabia city and Sanaa city.”
**سنن الترمذي
** قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أدنى أهل الجنة الذي له ثمانون ألف خادم واثنتان وسبعون زوجة وتنصب له قبة من لؤلؤ وزبرجد وياقوت كما بين الجابية إلى صنعاء
(A) ** قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أدنى أهل الجنة الذي له ثمانون ألف خادم واثنتان وسبعون زوجة وتنصب له قبة من لؤلؤ وزبرجد وياقوت كما بين الجابية إلى صنعاء
**
And here are the official commentaries by the 4 authentic Islamic commentators:**
تفسير ابن كثير:
“قوله تعالى كذلك” وزوجناهم بحور عين " أي هذا العطاء مع ما قد منحناهم من الزوجات الحسان الحور العين اللاتي" لم يطمثهن إنس قبلهم ولا جان"
تفسير الجلالين:
“كذلك” يقدر قبله الأمر “وزوجناهم” من التزويج أو قرناهم “بحور عين” بنساء بيض واسعات الأعين حسانها
تفسير الطبري:
القول في تأويل قوله تعالى : { كذلك وزوجناهم بحور عين } يقول تعالى ذكره : كما أعطينا هؤلاء المتقين في الآخرة من الكرامة بإدخالناهم الجنات , وإلباسناهم فيها السندس والإستبرق , كذلك أكرمناهم بأن زوجناهم أيضا فيها حورا من النساء , ومن النقيات البياض , واحدتهن : حوراء , وكان مجاهد يقول في معنى الحور , ما : 24111 - حدثني به محمد بن عمرو , قال : ثنا أبو عاصم , قال : ثنا عيسى ; وحدثني الحارث , قال : ثنا الحسن , قال : ثنا ورقاء جميعا , عن ابن أبي نجيح , عن مجاهد , قوله : { وزوجناهم بحور عين } قال : أنكحناهم حورا. قال : والحور : اللاتي يحار فيهن الطرف باد مخ سوقهن من وراء ثيابهن , ويرى الناظر وجهه في كبد إحداهن كالمرآة من رقة الجلد , وصفاء اللون . وهذا الذي قاله مجاهد من أن الحور إنما معناها : أنه يحار فيها الطرف , قول لا معنى له في كلام العرب ; لأن الحور إنما هو جمع حوراء , كالحمر جمع حمراء , والسود : جمع سوداء , والحوراء إنما هي فعلاء من الحور وهو نقاء البياض , كما قيل للنقي البياض من الطعام الحواري
تفسير القرطبي:
والحور : البيض ; في قول قتادة والعامة , جمع حوراء . والحوراء : البيضاء التي يرى ساقها من وراء ثيابها , ويرى الناظر وجهه في كعبها ; كالمرآة من دقة الجلد وبضاضة البشرة وصفاء اللون .
“قوله تعالى كذلك” وزوجناهم بحور عين " أي هذا العطاء مع ما قد منحناهم من الزوجات الحسان الحور العين اللاتي" لم يطمثهن إنس قبلهم ولا جان"
تفسير الجلالين:
“كذلك” يقدر قبله الأمر “وزوجناهم” من التزويج أو قرناهم “بحور عين” بنساء بيض واسعات الأعين حسانها
تفسير الطبري:
القول في تأويل قوله تعالى : { كذلك وزوجناهم بحور عين } يقول تعالى ذكره : كما أعطينا هؤلاء المتقين في الآخرة من الكرامة بإدخالناهم الجنات , وإلباسناهم فيها السندس والإستبرق , كذلك أكرمناهم بأن زوجناهم أيضا فيها حورا من النساء , ومن النقيات البياض , واحدتهن : حوراء , وكان مجاهد يقول في معنى الحور , ما : 24111 - حدثني به محمد بن عمرو , قال : ثنا أبو عاصم , قال : ثنا عيسى ; وحدثني الحارث , قال : ثنا الحسن , قال : ثنا ورقاء جميعا , عن ابن أبي نجيح , عن مجاهد , قوله : { وزوجناهم بحور عين } قال : أنكحناهم حورا. قال : والحور : اللاتي يحار فيهن الطرف باد مخ سوقهن من وراء ثيابهن , ويرى الناظر وجهه في كبد إحداهن كالمرآة من رقة الجلد , وصفاء اللون . وهذا الذي قاله مجاهد من أن الحور إنما معناها : أنه يحار فيها الطرف , قول لا معنى له في كلام العرب ; لأن الحور إنما هو جمع حوراء , كالحمر جمع حمراء , والسود : جمع سوداء , والحوراء إنما هي فعلاء من الحور وهو نقاء البياض , كما قيل للنقي البياض من الطعام الحواري
تفسير القرطبي:
والحور : البيض ; في قول قتادة والعامة , جمع حوراء . والحوراء : البيضاء التي يرى ساقها من وراء ثيابها , ويرى الناظر وجهه في كعبها ; كالمرآة من دقة الجلد وبضاضة البشرة وصفاء اللون .
(A)
J
JJJ4Eva
Guest
I posted this on another thread earlier, I’m not even going to bother editing
"Hi Paarsurry, I find that the first thing that Muslims do is compare Christ with Mohamed. It is not the same thing, Mohamed was a prophet, Christ is the Son of God. Don’t compare God with man in that way, it is extremely blasphemous. Your religion is one I look at with great heart ache, for it insists on condemning Jesus to the role of prophet and The Holy Spirit’s role as Comforter is taken away and given to Mohamed. Why does it touch on Christianity? I have really dubious qualms about the ones who believe that God is going to allow a whole lot of orgies in Heaven. I understand the fundamentals of your religion, I understand the beauty that can be held in a Qurbaan, I understand the way you greet, but YAHWEH is not allah, we don’t believe in the same God, my God isn’t represented in a black box in the middle of the desert. I’ve read your threads, stop comparing Christianity with Islam it is not the same thing, that you want to adopt Jesus as a prophet to make your religion more … fill in the gap, is beyond me, for you do not at any time advocate the celebration of him. Not the muslims I know anyway, they all admit that He is mentioned in the Koran, but no one celebrates Him and in fact they distance themselves from Him tremendously. "
"Hi Paarsurry, I find that the first thing that Muslims do is compare Christ with Mohamed. It is not the same thing, Mohamed was a prophet, Christ is the Son of God. Don’t compare God with man in that way, it is extremely blasphemous. Your religion is one I look at with great heart ache, for it insists on condemning Jesus to the role of prophet and The Holy Spirit’s role as Comforter is taken away and given to Mohamed. Why does it touch on Christianity? I have really dubious qualms about the ones who believe that God is going to allow a whole lot of orgies in Heaven. I understand the fundamentals of your religion, I understand the beauty that can be held in a Qurbaan, I understand the way you greet, but YAHWEH is not allah, we don’t believe in the same God, my God isn’t represented in a black box in the middle of the desert. I’ve read your threads, stop comparing Christianity with Islam it is not the same thing, that you want to adopt Jesus as a prophet to make your religion more … fill in the gap, is beyond me, for you do not at any time advocate the celebration of him. Not the muslims I know anyway, they all admit that He is mentioned in the Koran, but no one celebrates Him and in fact they distance themselves from Him tremendously. "
M
meedo
Guest
I have never heard such trash in all of my life.
If you run clean water through a filthy filters you get filthy water at the end. i give you clean water. I am not responsible for your filthy filters
If everyone in heaven is rich, what would anyone do with the wealth that he/she has? Wealth is a ‘medium of exchange’ Are we supposed to start all of the corruption now found on earth, all over again in Heaven? Will we have to pay rent to God, in order to occupy the mansions that He provides, or pay for clothes, heat, light, power,food, etc., etc…?
COLOR=“blue”]It amazes me how you just don’t get it. Wealth isnt money. Wealth is posessions. In heaven wealth is infinite and renewable and always increasing with no limits. Nopbody needs to exchange anything because every body gets what he wants . There is no limited resources in heaven . peopla re not fighting or enveying becasue every body gets what he wants .
(Maybe it is to provide for the many virgins not assigned to a murderer.)
There are no murderers in Hevaen .
You have not explained what happens to the muslim widows/widowers of spouses that have gone to hell instead of heaven (per your belief). Do they now have to purchase a new spouse with their wealth?
what a sick logic you have . when a man dies on this earth does hios wife go purchase a husband?!!!
Since the Israelites are the chosen people of God, and eventually, all Israel shall be saved, are you saving up rockets here on earth to deal with them in heaven?
I am amazed and frightened with your skillful use fo smilies . Your arguments are impecable and ‘’ common sense ‘’ is flowing out of your posts . I just wished you could have added one more smiley and my argument would have been crushed !!
The chosen people of God are people whop believe in God and obey his orders. God is not a racist ( at least that what Islam teaches ) He doesnt have a chosen race or a chosen peopel no mater what they do . God chooses people for certain tasks. Hios choice to them is an honor and a resoponsibility in the same time. if they fail , he chooses other people for his tasks and assigns them with carrying his orders. Israel is not the chosen peopel of God any more. get over it.
M
meedo
Guest
i am not good with how the tools here work. iam sure you can differentiate between what i wrote and what you wrote.
C
cathopologist
Guest
[’."
](Virgins? What virgins? | Books | The Guardian)
An article on the 72 virgins of Islamic paradise. Of course, it is highly unlikely you might find an uncensored copy of the direct translation in English, so despite what is quoted there, Muslims may object to the article’s translations.
M
MDK
Guest
When you start off wrong, as you do, it doesn’t get any closer to truth. The Bible isn’t the standard, nor does it teach it’s own truths. Anyone, including Satan can quote Scriptures as you do. However, do you know what they mean? Evidence is you do not.We seem to forget, that the Bible is a STANDARD set by God, that each and everyone of us will be measured against. If I cannot understand His STANDARD, as it is written, how can I be held accountable on judgment day? There are many personal interpretations of God’s Word (This includes the whole spectrum, of one person up to and including whole religious groups, cults, etc.), and not all can be right. We will believe what we will believe. There are many things written in the NT that every minister avoids. Some of these, are;
The book of Revelation was physically witnessed by John. We are warned not to add to or delete anything. Why would I assume that this book is nothing but ‘symbolism’ or that Genesis chpt 1-3, is likewise? Where does this interpretation come from? Who has anointed themselves to the position to make such a statement?
- You will be thrown out of the church (This means your own church, not some other church. Jesus was thrown out of His own church.), when you preach the truth, because man loves the darkness. Jesus stated that if they threw the master out, they will surely throw you out.
- Those that He finds worthy, will experience John 14:21-23. Tell me of someone that you know, who has experienced this.
- You will be persecuted, betrayed, etc., etc., for HIs name’s sake.
- You will be hated by the world, as He was. The reason for this, is that He has given you the truth, but others have fallen to the wayside, believing in false teachings, and refuse to change their understanding of the Word. They have become ‘high-headed’ and ‘hard-headed’ in their beliefs.
- Many will be called, but few will be chosen.
- Those that are found worthy until the end, will become sons/daughters of God, and will sit with Christ on His throne as He sits along with His Father on the Father’s throne. Who then become the nations of the world? There is only one answer. Those that are saved, but are not found worthy.
The above, are why I respond in the way that I do, in my threads. The NT scripture tells us, that we need no other man to give us an understanding of God’s Word. We simply have to pray to God for answers. This I do, many times per day. I love Him and fear Him, with all my heart.
What did Christ create as the pillar and bulwark of the truth? Was it the Bible or the Church? It is the Church. The Church teaches the truth of Oral and Written Tradition. By denying this, you come to false conclusions about Revelation, as well as other books.
You tell us you love Christ, yet your actions show differently. You reject Christ when you reject those He sent who are currently Bishops in the Catholic Church including the chief Bishop. You also reject His Church, which is His Bride. Do you really think He is pleased by this?
M
MDK
Guest
It’s better if you learn how to use the posting tools, so you’re posts are separate from ours. You’ve started to now, which is an improvement. We don’t want your support of a false prophet who coalesced the jealousy of the Ishmaelites, mixed in with our love and support of the Son of God.
R
R_not
Guest
They don’t think that black rock is allah, but they do indeed think that rock has a consciousness and will speak for them at Judgement Day. and yes, they do indeed worship it - I suppose out of fear since predestination in islam means that they have already been assigned to heaven or hell and they try to change that.
I have asked several times if they are sure that sending in their children to be suicide bombers, oh er I mean martyrs, if that really is a sure way to get to heaven and does it bypass predestination? (They celebrate when their kids die as martyrs because they are then thinking they will be named as one of the 70 who are saved)
No muslim would ever admit to that. I got it from an ex-muslim. hypocracies in islam
Here is an article on predestination
Since predestination is a bit of muslim ‘theology’ that muslims never like to admit to us - once again I learned this from ex-muslims - maybe I will start a new thread on this. No one answers my questions. (I wonder why?
)
J
jakasaki
Guest
72 virgins in heaven is not a myth to these people… listen to their way of thinking… (short video)
youtube.com/watch?v=LxZXQerkrJE
May God Bless Us…
youtube.com/watch?v=LxZXQerkrJE
May God Bless Us…
J
Jay53
Guest
How sad! And disturbing!!
I also want to know what happens when the 72 virgins aren’t virgins anymore?
S
sedonaman
Guest
Even Jews?
M
MDK
Guest
Don’t many Muslims teach their children that Jews are apes and pigs? Whenever anyone makes another group seem less than human, it’s much easier to get others to do with them what you will, rather than as God wills.
S
sedonaman
Guest
These are all literary devices. The tree in the Garden of Eden is not a literal tree. The forbidden fruit is not a literal fruit. Original Sin is not actually the process of eating something but partaking of that which is forbidden. What was forbidden to man? To play God, i.e., deciding the rules … what is good and what is evil. God makes the rules, not man. Satan tempted Adam and Eve by telling them they will be like God if they wanted. This manifests itself today in the form of moral relativity, found in statements such as, “What’s true for you is not necessarily true for me.”
- Status