The National Dept

[JefferyT]

Just in case anyone else cares; the current national dept is $18,152,809,942,589.00
That is EIGHTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS!
So what are the religious implications of that?
.

 

[JimG]

I don’t know, but I’d be interested to hear any ideas about the implications of incurring an increasing debt that can never be repaid.

 

[Catholic1954]

Just in case anyone else cares; the current national dept is $18,152,809,942,589.00
That is EIGHTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS!
So what are the religious implications of that?
.

Eighteen trillion is all they will admit to, I bet it’s much more than that.

 

[exnihilo]

That amount doesn’t include the unfunded liabilities of the welfare state. Our whole money system is a fraud. Placing your children into such massive debt is grossly immoral. The religious implications are that we need to repent.

 

[Convert1]

I don’t know, but I’d be interested to hear any ideas about the implications of incurring an increasing debt that can never be repaid.

I think of a couple things off the top of my head:
Continued unstable markets with potential collapse
Greater fiscal control of the U. S. by Japan and China

But one of the worst effects:
A U.S. sovereign default would mean the immediate bankruptcy of the Social Security System, because current FICA tax revenues do not cover current beneficiary payouts, and the difference is covered by the SSA cashing in bonds from the Social Security Trust Fund which are … Treasury Bonds. Also, entitlement programs would also be bankrupt and those dependent on those programs would resort to desperate means to survive. (crimes including theft and violent crimes would escalate)
That’s just a few, I can think of.

I believe the sad part of this, is we are closer than we think to this crisis, and few people really realize it.

 

[Mary_Estelle]

SS is not the cause of debt, but is underfunded because Congress keeps raiding the fund to try to balance the budget. SS should have been self-perpetuation because of accruing interest. Also, many citizens have paid into the system and have not lived to collect SS. This is a theft by Congress and the highest office in the land. When Jesus said that we should render unto Ceaser what was just due in taxes, He didn’t mean for us to fund abortion, or other nefarious actions. Anyway, I could go on, but I wont. Peace.

 

[Mary_Estelle]

Also, It is my opinion that the USA will have to go bankrupt before this country can start to dig its way out of the whole it is in. It will be a bad pill to swallow If and when that happens-perhaps we will go back on the gold standred which would be a more stable currency. Oh, what do I know-I would hate to carry all that gold around for a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread. LOL!

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Just in case anyone else cares; the current national dept is $18,152,809,942,589.00
That is EIGHTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS!
So what are the religious implications of that?
.

I did a google search on US population, and it’s close to 320 million.

Divide that into the above figure and I came out with $56,727 per head.

The average wage in the US (google search again) is supposed to be about $50,000, so each person would need to pay about a year’s wages but of course a lot of the population don’t work or have that kind of money. So the average debt per citizen is 112% of annual wages earnings.

In 1945 the US population at the end of World War II was about 140 million. The average wage was $2400. National debt was 250 billion. Average debt was therefore $1785, or 75% of average earnings. You managed to get yourselves out of that hole, but you had a few more things going in your favour back then.

Your debt probably can be repaid, but only with a lot of fiscal discipline.

 

[TaurusRex]

Just in case anyone else cares; the current national dept is $18,152,809,942,589.00
That is EIGHTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS!
So what are the religious implications of that?
.

If China attacks us, can we default on our $400billion/year interest payment to them?

rex

 

[Peebo]

So do we just keep printing money so we don’t end up bankrupt

 

[exnihilo]

SS is not the cause of debt, but is underfunded because Congress keeps raiding the fund to try to balance the budget. SS should have been self-perpetuation because of accruing interest.

SS was always a Ponzi scheme. It was never an investment.

In 1945 the US population at the end of World War II was about 140 million. The average wage was $2400. National debt was 250 billion. Average debt was therefore $1785, or 75% of average earnings. You managed to get yourselves out of that hole, but you had a few more things going in your favour back then.

Your debt probably can be repaid, but only with a lot of fiscal discipline.

I think for a proper comparison you’d have to compare the debt with the number of workers. In those days not as many women worked. But I also think there were other important factors. After WWII the US was the last man standing. Europe was a mess. The US was a nation that actually produced things. It is not impossible to get out of this debt but it is practically impossible given then nature of American democracy.

 

[Convert1]

SS is not the cause of debt, but is underfunded because Congress keeps raiding the fund to try to balance the budget. SS should have been self-perpetuation because of accruing interest. Also, many citizens have paid into the system and have not lived to collect SS. This is a theft by Congress and the highest office in the land. When Jesus said that we should render unto Ceaser what was just due in taxes, He didn’t mean for us to fund abortion, or other nefarious actions. Anyway, I could go on, but I wont. Peace.

I did not say that SS was the cause of debt. We actually OWE the SSA for the treasury bonds it currently owns with the Feds. If the bonds are worthless and the country is bankrupt, SS cannot get its cash returned to them.
It is factual that the greatest debt out of the 18 trillion is basically with ourselves and our own governmental programs. Foreign debt is only about 6 trillion.

Here’s a link that breaks our debt down:
useconomy.about.com/od/monetarypolicy/f/Who-Owns-US-National-Debt.htm

 

[Trader]

SS was always a Ponzi scheme. It was never an investment.

Not only is your statement true, but SS is also not a debt. You have no individual account funded with anything, and you have no contract granting you a right to future payments. Congress could cut benefits to anyone or to everyone tomorrow, although it would be political suicide. Even telling the truth about the system would put a politician into retirement.

Some states make pensions a contractual right, which is why Illinois is in deep doo-doo.

 

[mikekle]

Note that they just keep on raising the debt ceiling though!! LOL

I saw on the news tonight, they are raising it until March 2017…what happens in April 2017? My bet is they just keep on raising it…what other choice do they have?

 

[Trader]

I think for a proper comparison you’d have to compare the debt with the number of workers. In those days not as many women worked. But I also think there were other important factors. After WWII the US was the last man standing. Europe was a mess. The US was a nation that actually produced things. It is not impossible to get out of this debt but it is practically impossible given then nature of American democracy.

It approaches impossibility when we continue to dig the hole deeper. President Obama actually brags that his budget is “only” about a half billion in deficit after seven years and the promises made about Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare, and the inevitable rise in interest rates will explode the deficits in the not very distant future.

Those surveys about math education in the US are obviously true.

We are also facing an election where Democrats are trying to out-promise each other over new freebies.

 

[Convert1]

Not only is your statement true, but SS is also not a debt. You have no individual account funded with anything, and you have no contract granting you a right to future payments. Congress could cut benefits to anyone or to everyone tomorrow, although it would be political suicide. Even telling the truth about the system would put a politician into retirement.

Some states make pensions a contractual right, which is why Illinois is in deep doo-doo.

True. Thank you. Ever since SS was co-mingled with the general fund by LBJ in the 60s it has been a mess and basically of no individual worth to each working person paying into the system. Any Congress may cut benefits at any time. In fact this is the third time since 2010 that SS has received a zero increase in cost of living based on a “formula” from the CPI (Consumer Price Index). It only makes sense the “formula” can be altered at any time.

 

[QuidVeritasEst]

That amount doesn’t include the unfunded liabilities of the welfare state. Our whole money system is a fraud. Placing your children into such massive debt is grossly immoral. The religious implications are that we need to repent.

America has a welfare state? Could have fooled me…

I fail to see how the U.S. national debt can be pinned on the majority of its citizens, or the guilt. Perhaps if the U.S had any form of left-wing remaining, then corporate tax wouldn’t be so lax, and the state might have been able to avoid those crippling deficits.

 

[Mary_Estelle]

Not only is your statement true, but SS is also not a debt. You have no individual account funded with anything, and you have no contract granting you a right to future payments. Congress could cut benefits to anyone or to everyone tomorrow, although it would be political suicide. Even telling the truth about the system would put a politician into retirement.

Some states make pensions a contractual right, which is why Illinois is in deep doo-doo.

SS was never meant to be an investment per se, but to be self funding through interest. It was meant to be “untouchable.” That didn’t stop Congress from dipping into the funds with sticky fingers. Congress can make or brake this country.

 

[SWolf]

America has a welfare state? Could have fooled me…

I fail to see how the U.S. national debt can be pinned on the majority of its citizens, or the guilt. Perhaps if the U.S had any form of left-wing remaining, then corporate tax wouldn’t be so lax, and the state might have been able to avoid those crippling deficits.

taxfoundation.org/blog/us-has-highest-corporate-income-tax-rate-oecd

Even if we had corporate income taxes of 100%, it would not balance the budget.

 

[exnihilo]

America has a welfare state? Could have fooled me…

I fail to see how the U.S. national debt can be pinned on the majority of its citizens, or the guilt. Perhaps if the U.S had any form of left-wing remaining, then corporate tax wouldn’t be so lax, and the state might have been able to avoid those crippling deficits.

That the government fails to achieve what it claims it will is no surprise. The issue isn’t how much taxes are paid but how it is wasted through graft, corruption, privilege, vote seeking, wars, and general waste. More of the same is not a very sensible solution.