The Necessity of Baptism

[Todd_Easton]

So, if we are not baptized, then we are not really His disciples.

Since the Bible (Acts 19:1) refers to some unbaptized people as “disciples,” there is no reason why we should not also do so. They may not be fully instructed in and initiated into the Christian faith but they are still His disciples, trying to do His will as they understand it. Invincible ignorance is a valid excuse; see Luke 12:47-48. Once they were instructed more accurately in the Christian faith, they were baptized.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Catholics are not the only group that believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation. I have a co-worker associated with The Church of Christ; she believes the same thing. I can’t help but wonder how God is going to deal with this error. I do not mean that in an offensive manner, but it is an error. If someone were to say we can’t be saved without being baptized into Christ through the Holy Spirit; then I would agree.

How do you enter into the Body of Christ?

 

[Randy_Carson]

quote=Seeking12;4830763]Where does Jesus tell us baptism is the normative means to enter into salvation?

I have no idea why the quote function is not working properly.

**Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:47-48
Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Gee, if they had already received the Holy Spirit, why did Peter ORDER that they be baptized? Sounds like normative necessity to me.
**

 

[Randy_Carson]

Many people believe that baptism is merely a symbolic act that one performs before the community of believers as an outward sign of an inward decision to accept Christ as one’s “personal Lord and Savior”. Is this view biblical or does God view baptism differently? Let’s see what the Bible has to say.

Baptism is Related to Impartation of the Holy Spirit

Ezekiel 36:25-27
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

In this Old Testament passage, the prophet clearly speaks of the sacrament of baptism that was to come. Notice the elements: water is sprinkled, the person is actually made clean (not merely imputed to be or called clean), and they receive a new spirit along with the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ezekiel makes a connection between washing in Water and the receipt of the Spirit of God.

However, sometimes when the Old Testament is referenced, people will say, “Well, we follow the New Testament.” in an attempt to dismiss an Old Testament passage. They need to remember the following words from the New Testament:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Consequently, we can see that all of the Bible must be taken into account when we seek to understand doctrine.

Baptism Washes Away Sin

Acts 2:38-39
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

At Pentecost, Peter told the crowd to “be baptized…for the forgiveness of…sins.” After that, “you will receive…the Holy Spirit”. Once again, we see the elements of Water and Spirit…just as Ezekiel prophesied. Note too, that this promise is for “you and your children” – a clear endorsement of infant baptism.

Acts 22:16
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)

Baptism Makes Us Part of the Body of Christ

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Galatians 3:26-27
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Colossians 2:11-12
11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

Baptism Saves

Romans 6:3-4
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

(cont.)

 

[Randy_Carson]

Baptism Commanded by Jesus

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.”

Some argue that in this verse, “born of water” refers to the placenta fluid of physical birth. However, there is no scriptural basis for this interpretation. Instead, as the references from Ezekiel and the New Testament passages make clear, the “water” connected with the Holy Spirit is the water of the sacrament of baptism – not that of physical birth. Jesus’ words, understood properly, tell us that unless one is “born of baptism and the Spirit” he cannot enter the kingdom of God. This point is underscored by the fact that Jesus and the disciples went out to baptize

Matthew 28:19
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

In this passage containing the very last instructions Jesus gave His disciples, we see how important baptism was to Him. He did not say, “Go and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to accept me as their personal Lord and Savior and baptizing them as an outward symbol of this inward acceptance…”

From these passages, we can see that water baptism is connected very closely with the receipt of the Holy Spirit, that baptism washes away sin, that baptism saves us, and that baptism is commanded by Jesus. Therefore, baptism can hardly be viewed as a merely symbolic.

 

[Seeking12]

I disagree with this interpretation. The point is not that the physical sign is ineffective because it’s a physical sign. Rather, it’s that the sign itself is effective because it’s an appeal to God for a good conscience. We seek Baptism after repentance, and it is salvific precisely because it’s an appeal for a good conscience. (To put that another way: Taking a shower doesn’t save you; Baptism does; the reason is that the latter is a directed appeal for a good conscience, while the former is not.)

In particular, I don’t see how you can reconcile this interpretation – Baptism is a physical sign that doesn’t save in the way faith does – with Paul’s theology of Baptism in Romans 6, Romans 6 is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not a water baptism…the immersing of the Holy Spirit to seal us is the true baptism the true gospel speaks of. in which it is baptism, not faith, that unites us to the death and resurrection of Our Lord.

**Pauls theolgy on baptism of water. 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. **
Does God save people differently in the OT as He does in the NT; in other words does God change? Water baptism has never saved anyone and never will because this is not how God saves.

 

[Seeking12]

Since the Bible (Acts 19:1) refers to some unbaptized people as “disciples,” there is no reason why we should not also do so. They may not be fully instructed in and initiated into the Christian faith but they are still His disciples, trying to do His will as they understand it. Invincible ignorance is a valid excuse; see Luke 12:47-48. Once they were instructed more accurately in the Christian faith, they were baptized.

A disciple is simply a learner. Look at John 6 as an example, that hungry crowd was considered to be disciples, but as you know they walked away in unbelief.

 

[Seeking12]

How do you enter into the Body of Christ?

The same way as all people has throughout human history by putting my trust in Christ alone by faith. It is a gift from God. There is a lot more than just saying you believe; there is repentence and obedience; accepting the savior and treating Him as king with a servants heart.

I will get to the rest of your posts tomorrow; I have been here a long time today and I am mentally exhausted. Have a great night everyone and thanks for all the great questions.

 

[broski234]

**Let’s say you are correct and circumcision in the OT is similar in effect as water baptism is to the NT, which it may well be.

Galatians 5:6 “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.”
(This is the same message; God does not change how He saves.)
Galatians 6:15 “For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.”

Romans 2:29 “But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit**, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.”
Philippians 3:2-3 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; for we are the **{true} circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, **

Colossians 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Just as we are baptized with a baptism made without hands, the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I agree with all of these verses 100%. However, I don’t agree with your fallible, man-made interpretation of them. Col 2:11 is actually showing how baptism is the new covenant equivalent to the Old covenant circumcision.

 

[broski234]

Thanks for that one; this is the verse I have been seeking. This verse shows that water baptism is not the real baptism that saves.

1 Peter 3:21 “Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you–not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience–through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”

Randy pretty much answered this one for me.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Pauls theolgy on baptism of water. 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

1 Corinthians 12:28-30
28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tonguesa]? Do all interpret?

Paul did not see his primary responsibility as baptizing, but this does not mean that he did not consider it important since he himself had been baptized IMMEDIATELY upon hearing the gospel.

And yes, he did baptize a few people.

1 Corinthians 1:14-17
14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Paul preached and left the baptizing to others.

Does God save people differently in the OT as He does in the NT; in other words does God change? Water baptism has never saved anyone and never will because this is not how God saves.

Baptism Saves

Romans 6:3-4
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Notice that the OT imagery of Noah (and the Israelites passing through the Red Sea) prefigure the water baptism of the NT.

Yeah, Baptism now saves you.

 

[SyCarl]

Thomas Aquinas cites 3 types of baptism.

I answer that, As stated above, Baptism of Water has its efficacy from Christ’s Passion, to which a man is conformed by Baptism, and also from the Holy Ghost, as first cause. Now although the effect depends on the first cause, the cause far surpasses the effect, nor does it depend on it. Consequently, a man may, without Baptism of Water, receive the sacramental effect from Christ’s Passion, in so far as he is conformed to Christ by suffering for Him. Hence it is written: “These are they who are come out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” In like manner a man receives the effect of Baptism by the power of the Holy Ghost, not only without Baptism of Water, but also without Baptism of Blood: forasmuch as his heart is moved by the Holy Ghost to believe in and love God and to repent of his sins: wherefore this is also called Baptism of Repentance. Of this it is written: “If the Lord shall wash away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall wash away the blood of Jerusalem out of the midst thereof, by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.” Thus, therefore, each of these other Baptisms is called Baptism, forasmuch as it takes the place of Baptism.

Summa Theologica, Part 3, Question 66, Article 11
ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.TP_Q66_A11.html

He deals with the desire for the sacraments elsewhere (Question 68, Article 2) so by baptism of repentance he apparently doesn’t mean baptism of desire. I think that many Protestants would view what Aquinas calls baptism of repentance as the normative form of baptism. Water baptism is then claiming the benefits of the New Covenant for both us and our children and the sign and sealing the promises of the Covenant…

Without this type of baptism we would not want baptism by water. I believe the Catholic Church agrees that for adults faith is necessary for water baptism to be effective so water baptism effectively depends on the baptism of repentance. I believe that this form of baptism corresponds to what Paul and the Old Testament refer to as circumcision of the heart. It is because of this that Jesus chides Nicodemus, as a teacher of the Jews, for not understanding being born of water and the Spirit. Christian baptism had not been introduced yet so Nicodemus could not have been expected to understand it in such a sense.

 

[GJx86]

Pauls theolgy on baptism of water. 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. Does God save people differently in the OT as He does in the NT; in other words does God change? Water baptism has never saved anyone and never will because this is not how God saves.

I would be glad to discuss 1 Corinthians 1 after you explain how you reconcile your belief that Baptism does not save with Paul’s explicit statement in Romans 6 that we are “buried with Jesus through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead … we too may walk in newness of life.”

Once you address this we can move on to other passages.

Edit: Oh, I see. You dismissed it as a “baptism of the Holy Spirit.” Yet the verb for “to baptize” in this passage is the same that is used universally in the New Testament to denote water baptism. Can you provide any evidence that Romans 6 is talking about “baptism in the Spirit” as opposed to water baptism? You’ve asserted this with no evidence at all.

 

[NotWorthy]

****Where does Jesus tell us baptism is the normative means to enter into salvation?
****Look at Jesus’ words in John 3:5 - Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

---

Then look at Peter’s words in Acts 2:38. It’s the very first instructions from the early Church -**** Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?” Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.

Finally, I’d look to the prophecy of Ezekiel which points to Peter’s words in Acts -*** I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees.***

---

I base that on the theme of Matthew 7:13-14, where He is speaking to religious people and the many are on the broad road, I’d say most of those were water baptized, then there are the few and most of them were water baptized, but they are the one’s that recived the baptism of the Holy Spirit.****

These were baptized by John. Jesus’ Sacramental Baptism hadn’t been instituted (“born of water and spirit”). This is evidenced in Acts where those that had received only the Baptism of John hadn’t received the Holy Spirit.

 

[GJx86]

I was curious about this as well.

Thomas Aquinas cites 3 types of baptism.

Aquinas continues:

Wherefore Augustine says (De Unico Baptismo Parvulorum iv): “The Blessed Cyprian argues with considerable reason from the thief to whom, though not baptized, it was said: ‘Today shalt thou be with Me in Paradise’ that suffering can take the place of Baptism. Having weighed this in my mind again and again, I perceive that not only can suffering for the name of Christ supply for what was lacking in Baptism, but even faith and conversion of heart, if perchance on account of the stress of the times the celebration of the mystery of Baptism is not practicable.”

In other words: Water baptism is necessary if it is available, but in situations where someone lacked the opportunity to be baptized, martyrdom or sincere repentance can take its place.

If this isn’t what Aquinas held, then why didn’t he stop quoting Augustine and Cyprian after the word “heart”?

 

[NotWorthy]

**
I would look even earlier into the OT; Gos saves people in the OT the same as He did in the NT**; He does not change does He? How did He save in the OT? In some ways I can’t even believe this is an issue because God is so clear about how He saves, but that is how I see it. Obviously other people see something different.

The underlined is an interesting statement. If this is true, why was there a need for Jesus?

 

[NotWorthy]

I would be glad to discuss 1 Corinthians 1 after you explain how you reconcile your belief that Baptism does not save with Paul’s explicit statement in Romans 6 that we are “buried with Jesus through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead … we too may walk in newness of life.”
.

In the hopes that I’m not repeating someone else, what about Peter’s words regarding those being saved in the ark, “This pre-figured baptism, which saves you now”.

What was the Eunuch’s first question to Phillip? There’s water over there? What’s to prevent me from being baptized right now?

 

[SyCarl]

The underlined is an interesting statement. If this is true, why was there a need for Jesus?

The difference is that those under the Old Testament had faith in the coming Savior while we have faith in the Savior who has come. A number of the early church fathers recognized that the basis for salvation is the same.

If the salvation of the world is in no other but in Christ alone, then the fathers of the Old Testament were saved by the incarnation and passion of the same Redeemer, by which we also believe and hope to be saved. For although the sacramental signs differed by reason of the times, nevertheless there was agreement in one and the same faith, because through the prophets they learned as something to come the same dispensation of Christ which we learned through the apostles as something which has been done. For there is no redemption of human captivity [to sinfulness] except in the blood of him who gave himself as a redemption for all.-Bede (Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles, Francis Martin ed. Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament V Acts (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2006), p. 49.)

He has made use of many proofs, since he knew the Jews especially questioned faith by means of a certain line of argument. For the Jews were setting forth the law and righteousness by their works, but Christians set forth faith, saying that even if someone should be guilty of ten thousand evils, by only believing in Christ he receives immediately deliverance from all of them, being deemed worthy of justification from him. Therefore, having determined this, then partly to appropriate the things that had been said before and partly to be able to show that faith appeared among all the virtuous men of old, he adds, “by faith the men of old received divine approval.”-Theodore of Mopsuestia (Fragments on the Epistle to the Hebrews 11.1-2 Erik M. Heen & Philip D. W. Krey ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament X Hebrews, (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2005), p. 173.)

If the law justifies, Abraham was not justified, since he lived long before the law. Since they cannot say this, they are forced to admit that a man is justified not by works of the law but by faith. And he compels us to understand that all the ancients who were justified were justified from the same faith. For as we are saved by believing, partly in a past event, that is the first coming of the Lord, and partly in a future one, that is, his second coming, they believed the whole of it, that is, both coming events. The Holy Spirit reveals this for their salvation.-Augustine, (Epistle to the Galatians,Thomas Oden ed. ., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VIII: Galatians, Ephesians Philippians, (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1999), p. 43.))

 

[NotWorthy]

The difference is that those under the Old Testament had faith in the coming Savior while we have faith in the Savior who has come. A number of the early church fathers recognized that the basis for salvation is the same.

Now THAT I did not know.

But… that begs the question. What happens to those that are still restricted to the OT and have missed the boat on the coming Messiah.

 

[SyCarl]

Now THAT I did not know.

But… that begs the question. What happens to those that are still restricted to the OT and have missed the boat on the coming Messiah.

I can not answer that. I suppose we must trust God the same as we must with respect to those who have never heard of Jesus. However the position is not the same as the Messiah has come whether He is recognized or not.