The new age movement is satanic at its core

[schaeffer]

In some ways I am surprised this is such an issue for Catholics BECAUSE Catholicism is such a clear and implicit faith and set of doctrines to follow.

It’s all there, in other words.

Follow the teachings of the Church, and then what is there to worry about. I know that must sound stupidly naive, but truly, no matter what the issue is, it truly seems the Church has addressed it and has a teaching for it.

Wonder if crystals carry power from spirits…well, using crystals isn’t part of the doctrine, so don’t do it.

Same with auras, yoga, channeling, on and on and on. I am not claiming those things ARE satanic, but what difference does it make for a Catholic.

There is SO much in Catholicism to keep anyone busy for 100 lifetimes, that one need not dabble in anything New Age etc.

If Catholicism is a boat on the ocean of life, and the boat is secure and headed in the right direction, then just don’t dip a toe into the questionable ocean.

I admit, much of what I hear Christians (not only Catholics) call spiritual warfare seems to be nothing but paranoia. I’ve had friends who became nearly crippled with fear over satan in every corner after converting to Christianity, when they a had led productive and not horribly sinful lives previous to that.

Is there evil in this world? Surely, but one need not go looking for it in a rock on a windowsill or a relaxing CD of music. It’s there right in our faces, big and ugly and obvious.

I think endless arguments on whether satan is leading people astray via yoga is what distracts of from the real issues. Perhaps satan is not in the crystal, but in the fear of the crystal.

 

[ialsop]

In some ways I am surprised this is such an issue for Catholics BECAUSE Catholicism is such a clear and implicit faith and set of doctrines to follow.

It’s all there, in other words.

Follow the teachings of the Church, and then what is there to worry about. I know that must sound stupidly naive, but truly, no matter what the issue is, it truly seems the Church has addressed it and has a teaching for it.

Wonder if crystals carry power from spirits…well, using crystals isn’t part of the doctrine, so don’t do it.

Same with auras, yoga, channeling, on and on and on. I am not claiming those things ARE satanic, but what difference does it make for a Catholic.

There is SO much in Catholicism to keep anyone busy for 100 lifetimes, that one need not dabble in anything New Age etc.

If Catholicism is a boat on the ocean of life, and the boat is secure and headed in the right direction, then just don’t dip a toe into the questionable ocean.

I admit, much of what I hear Christians (not only Catholics) call spiritual warfare seems to be nothing but paranoia. I’ve had friends who became nearly crippled with fear over satan in every corner after converting to Christianity, when they a had led productive and not horribly sinful lives previous to that.

Is there evil in this world? Surely, but one need not go looking for it in a rock on a windowsill or a relaxing CD of music. It’s there right in our faces, big and ugly and obvious.

I think endless arguments on whether satan is leading people astray via yoga is what distracts of from the real issues. Perhaps satan is not in the crystal, but in the fear of the crystal.

Hmm, interesting, and I agree!!!
The bold: not so much, but a valid possibility.

 

[friardchips]

In some ways I am surprised this is such an issue for Catholics BECAUSE Catholicism is such a clear and implicit faith and set of doctrines to follow.

It’s all there, in other words.

Follow the teachings of the Church, and then what is there to worry about. I know that must sound stupidly naive, but truly, no matter what the issue is, it truly seems the Church has addressed it and has a teaching for it.

Wonder if crystals carry power from spirits…well, using crystals isn’t part of the doctrine, so don’t do it.

Same with auras, yoga, channeling, on and on and on. I am not claiming those things ARE satanic, but what difference does it make for a Catholic.

There is SO much in Catholicism to keep anyone busy for 100 lifetimes, that one need not dabble in anything New Age etc.

If Catholicism is a boat on the ocean of life, and the boat is secure and headed in the right direction, then just don’t dip a toe into the questionable ocean.

I admit, much of what I hear Christians (not only Catholics) call spiritual warfare seems to be nothing but paranoia. I’ve had friends who became nearly crippled with fear over satan in every corner after converting to Christianity, when they a had led productive and not horribly sinful lives previous to that.

Is there evil in this world? Surely, but one need not go looking for it in a rock on a windowsill or a relaxing CD of music. It’s there right in our faces, big and ugly and obvious.

I think endless arguments on whether satan is leading people astray via yoga is what distracts of from the real issues. Perhaps satan is not in the crystal, but in the fear of the crystal.

The crystal is neutral because it is a ‘thing’. It is what one attributes to a crystal that is the issue. And I think there is a difference between a ‘fear of’ and a ‘healthy aversion to’, various forms of application to certain objects, and ways if life that support, signify and express alternative forms of spiritual awareness other than that of worship to God and His ways laid out for salvation. Anything that deceives is an evil, although there are different forms and levels and depths of seriousness, to evil. Only God is good. Some people argue that Yoga is okay because the positions are neutral, for example, until people start invoking Eastern mythological characters (demons) into the practice, but I have seen, since originally posting in this thread, an excellent website that suggests that entering into Yoga with Godly intentions or intentions for exercise has led many a Christian away from Christian worship suggesting that it is very difficult to part the exercises from ancient Eastern worship. I will provide the link and I really hope people read it. It is by Catholic priests, and there is one priest on this site whom I have met and who I understand to be a very holy man…the blog has three parts on Yoga:

spiritualdirection.com/2014/01/29/what-is-yoga-catholic-perspective-part-i

 

[friardchips]

spiritualdirection.com/2014/01/29/what-is-yoga-catholic-perspective-part-i

spiritualdirection.com/2014/02/19/what-is-yoga-a-catholic-perspective-part-ii

spiritualdirection.com/2014/05/07/are-yoga-gods-divine-manifestation-a-catholic-perspective-part-iii

 

[Overture]

Is there evil in this world? Surely, but one need not go looking for it in a rock on a windowsill or a relaxing CD of music. It’s there right in our faces, big and ugly and obvious.

I think endless arguments on whether satan is leading people astray via yoga is what distracts of from the real issues. Perhaps satan is not in the crystal, but in the fear of the crystal.

This. I love the way you phrased this. Let’s all take a step back and realize what we’re actually dealing with here. The Love of Christ and the expectation that we extend that unconditional love toward others should be first and foremost. Condemning and wagging fingers and shoving others in a corner isn’t going to do anyone any good in the end. It’ll only make those you’re trying to save that much more resentful and bitter toward you and Christianity in general.

I understand where a lot of you are coming from, and I am a true believer when it comes to Satan and demonic forces corrupting humanity and its affairs. But the length to which anti-“New Age” sentiment has gone in this thread reminds me of a passage from the Catechism:

29 But this “intimate and vital bond of man to God” (GS 19 § 1) can be forgotten, overlooked, or even explicitly rejected by man.3 Such attitudes can have different causes: revolt against evil in the world; religious ignorance or indifference; the cares and riches of this world; the scandal of bad example on the part of believers; currents of thought hostile to religion; finally, that attitude of sinful man which makes him hide from God out of fear and flee his call.4

I’m sorry, but I personally think that a lot of this, “Vehemently Anti-This, Anti-That” rhetoric does not help the mission of the Church. That sort of talk is important for certain issues, of course. But when society views the faithful as simply, “those annoying angry folk over there in the corner raging about my Enya CD,” then you’re losing the very battle that you’re claiming to be fighting.

It reminds me of Pope Francis and his emphasis on Christ. Let’s focus on Christ. His Absolute and Unconditional Love. His Sacrifice. When we get mired down in this kind of stuff, we lose sight of that.

As a former atheist and peddler of all varieties of Eastern philosophies and traditions, I can tell you that what piqued my sincere interest in Christianity-as-Truth wasn’t being condemned by someone. It was because of the example led by certain pious, sincere Catholics that I knew. Let people know you are a follower of Christ by your willingness to do and show Goodness, not your ability to point out and condemn the badness. That’s what made the light-bulb go off for me, anyway!

 

[ialsop]

ITS NOT THE CDS AND ROCKS THAT WE ARE AGAINST!!! We are against the “spirit guides” and letting “spirit people” guide us, tell us what to do, ect. on girl killed herself by raping herself with a knife because while meditating she felt her “spirit mother” telling her to. So…thats the danger. Just because you listen to certain music, that is NOT New Age so I dont see why you people ae getting so defensive about it.

 

[PRmerger]

ITS NOT THE CDS AND ROCKS THAT WE ARE AGAINST!!! We are against the “spirit guides” and letting “spirit people” guide us, tell us what to do, ect. on girl killed herself by raping herself with a knife because while meditating she felt her “spirit mother” telling her to. So…thats the danger. Just because you listen to certain music, that is NOT New Age

Regarding all of the above–no one here ought to disagree with that. In fact, I haven’t seen anyone here advocating that we should let spirit people guide us into killing ourselves.

so I dont see why you people ae getting so defensive about it.

One might ask the same question of you.

 

[ialsop]

Regarding all of the above–no one here ought to disagree with that. In fact, I haven’t seen anyone here advocating that we should let spirit people guide us into killing ourselves.

One might ask the same question of you.

Well, because each condemnation of the New Age is met with dissent by people claiming we are being too harsh in our judgement of their music preference, philosophy, ect. But that has nothing to do with what we are talking about and it is derailing the conversation.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, because each condemnation of the New Age is met with dissent by people claiming we are being too harsh in our judgement of their music preference, philosophy, ect. But that has nothing to do with what we are talking about and it is derailing the conversation.

The fact is, ialsop, that people dissent and disagree and dialogue here. That’s what is done on the CAFs. It’s a forum where people express their opinions and provide reasons for their arguments, and someone else disagrees and dissents and offers reasons for her position.

That’s just how it works here.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

I think a desire for the transcendental is a good thing and an underlying suspicion that there is more to life than the material world. God allows the devil to play because the devil can actually by accident push people closer to God (through suffering) but nothing that is an alternative…

You make some good points.

My favorite verse to quote is Rom 8:28. Even when things seem terribly wrong, “We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.”

In some ways I am surprised this is such an issue for Catholics BECAUSE Catholicism is such a clear and implicit faith and set of doctrines to follow.

It’s all there, in other words.

Follow the teachings of the Church, and then what is there to worry about. I know that must sound stupidly naive, but truly, no matter what the issue is, it truly seems the Church has addressed it and has a teaching for it.

I admit, much of what I hear Christians (not only Catholics) call spiritual warfare seems to be nothing but paranoia. I’ve had friends who became nearly crippled with fear over satan in every corner after converting to Christianity, when they a had led productive and not horribly sinful lives previous to that.

Is there evil in this world? Surely, but one need not go looking for it in a rock on a windowsill or a relaxing CD of music. It’s there right in our faces, big and ugly and obvious.

I think endless arguments on whether satan is leading people astray via yoga is what distracts of from the real issues. Perhaps satan is not in the crystal, but in the fear of the crystal.

This is one of the best posts I’ve ever seen on this topic. Clearly the fear of the new age is sufficient in and of itself to cause one to live a miserable life of fear and anxiety – clear indications the Savior’s words are not sinking in yet.

MS

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Well, because each condemnation of the New Age is met with dissent by people claiming we are being too harsh in our judgement of their music preference, philosophy, ect. But that has nothing to do with what we are talking about and it is derailing the conversation.

I thought that was precisely what the discussion was about.

If everybody was of the same mind on this there would be no discussion; it would be just an exposition. Sometimes people don’t like what is being said but that doesn’t mean the discussion is off-topic; sometimes it just means they wish others agreed with them.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

I’m sorry, but I personally think that a lot of this, “Vehemently Anti-This, Anti-That” rhetoric does not help the mission of the Church. That sort of talk is important for certain issues, of course. But when society views the faithful as simply, “those annoying angry folk over there in the corner raging about my Enya CD,” then you’re losing the very battle that you’re claiming to be fighting.

It reminds me of Pope Francis and his emphasis on Christ. Let’s focus on Christ. His Absolute and Unconditional Love. His Sacrifice. When we get mired down in this kind of stuff, we lose sight of that.

As a former atheist and peddler of all varieties of Eastern philosophies and traditions, I can tell you that what piqued my sincere interest in Christianity-as-Truth wasn’t being condemned by someone. It was because of the example led by certain pious, sincere Catholics that I knew. Let people know you are a follower of Christ by your willingness to do and show Goodness, not your ability to point out and condemn the badness. That’s what made the light-bulb go off for me, anyway!

So…thats the danger. Just because you listen to certain music, that is NOT New Age so I dont see why you people ae getting so defensive about it.

Exactly. I’ve seen quite the hysteria over “new age music” and “meditation music” and the like. Reminds me of back when we had vinyl records and everybody claimed there were satanic messages if you play certain parts backwards. I mean really if I’m turning my records backwards looking for satanic messages, good chance I’ll find one!

Next we’ll be afraid of anything relaxing at all because Satan can speak to us anytime we’re not anxious and fearful. Moreover, New Age people have been known to sit in comfy chairs just like the ones I have used in the past so obviously that’s out!

MS

 

[Overture]

Well, because each condemnation of the New Age is met with dissent by people claiming we are being too harsh in our judgement of their music preference, philosophy, ect. But that has nothing to do with what we are talking about and it is derailing the conversation.

And to be fair, that’s what a lot of this thread was about: solidifying our impressions of what “New Age” even meant exactly. It’s such a broad, vague term that encompasses so many different traditions. Kaballah can be viewed as “New Age.” Certain forms of Christian mysticism can be viewed as “New Age.” Meditation itself can even be viewed as “New Age.” Tai Chi, Yoga, Reiki, crystals, vibrations, chakra, etc. The list goes on and on. And none of these things have very much in common at all. They often hail from ancient practices of a vast spectrum of cultures.

And things like CDs are brought up because it was postulated that, even though a member enjoyed listening to their relaxing New Age CD, the ultimate source of that music was essentially the Devil and demonic practices and therefore it was evil. The defensiveness and push-back are a natural reaction to this, I think.

 

[friardchips]

And to be fair, that’s what a lot of this thread was about: solidifying our impressions of what “New Age” even meant exactly. It’s such a broad, vague term that encompasses so many different traditions. Kaballah can be viewed as “New Age.” Certain forms of Christian mysticism can be viewed as “New Age.” Meditation itself can even be viewed as “New Age.” Tai Chi, Yoga, Reiki, crystals, vibrations, chakra, etc. The list goes on and on. And none of these things have very much in common at all. They often hail from ancient practices of a vast spectrum of cultures.

And things like CDs are brought up because it was postulated that, even though a member enjoyed listening to their relaxing New Age CD, the ultimate source of that music was essentially the Devil and demonic practices and therefore it was evil. The defensiveness and push-back are a natural reaction to this, I think.

I think so too. All people have to some degree ‘survival instincts’. When one becomes Christ-centred one also develops a kind of spiritual-survival instinct.

I might listen to an Enya song or Carmina’s Bananas, but it at some point I will know, if I go down the route of more pagan-‘spiritual’, that as a human being my physical expressions of daily activity are what orient me towards, and show my love for, whatever I am honouring with love and therefore what is in my heart. I will not be into new age because there is a pull inside me that tells me that to enjoy that stuff would be contrary to honouring God because it would be physical manifestations from my actions oriented in a different direction.

 

[Jamma]

Certain forms of Christian mysticism can be viewed as “New Age.”.

I am Jack007 and I disagree to that statement.

You did post thoughtworthy things in this post and other posts. Yet, Catholic mysticism is never New age. Did you read Christ, the Water Bearer of Life, The Church’s Response to New age I posted sometime ago under my previous username?

 

[Overture]

I am Jack007 and I disagree to that statement.

You did post thoughtworthy things in this post and other posts. Yet, Catholic mysticism is never New age.

I didn’t say that Christian mysticism is “New Age.” I said that it could be viewed as such. I was highlighting that “New Age” is an extremely broad term that has come to mean virtually any esoteric, Eastern-oriented alternative spirituality.

New Age:* noun*: a broad movement characterized by alternative approaches to traditional Western culture, with an interest in spirituality, mysticism, holism, and environmentalism.

Some non-Catholic person could look at the Desert Fathers for example, or the heavy importance of asceticism in Catholicism, and conclude that it has a lot in common with, say, Yogic attitudes about spirituality, which includes the denial of “Self” in order to grow closer to God. Would that be a completely accurate conclusion to come to? I don’t think so. But you can see how somebody gleaning the surface of understanding would come to that conclusion.

Main point of this thread that I’ve gathered is that when you generalize too much, you miss out on the nuance involved in understanding other people, attitudes, and beliefs. You don’t have to personally subscribe to something in order to attempt to understand it. When Saint Pope John Paul II visited remote cultures that practiced animism, did he chastise them and tell them that they were going to Hell if they didn’t convert immediately? No. He built bridges by discussing all that Catholicism had in common with animism and their traditions, such as the veneration of ancestors.

Should he have condemned inter-faith coalitions and bridge-building, a huge aspect of his life’s work, as wrong, “compromising with the enemy,” or some such?

 

[Jamma]

Sorry for not quoting you. I cannot due to a glitch.

I didn’t say that Christian mysticism is “New Age.” I said that it could be viewed as such. I was highligting that “New Age” is an extremely broad term that has come to mean virtually any esoteric, Eastern-oriented alternative spirituality.

I did not say you said that. I just made a statement.

Some non-Catholic person could look at the Desert Fathers for example, or the heavy importance of asceticism in Catholicism, and conclude that it has a lot in common with, say, Yogic attitudes about spirituality, which includes the denial of “Self” in order to grow closer to God. Would that be a completely accurate …
on to come to? I don’t think so. But you can see how somebody gleaning the surface of understanding would come to that conclusion.

They dont understand correctly

when you generalize too much, you miss out on the nuance involved in understanding other people, attitudes, and beliefs.

Right.

Should he have condemned inter-faith coalitions and bridge-building, a huge aspect of his life’s work, as wrong, “compromising with the enemy,” or some such?

No.
And I dont use a dictionary to help me with the faith.

 

[schaeffer]

I also think it’s important to look closely at extreme cases.

It’s horrible if a person “goes mad” because they hear voices of guides telling them to do bizarre things etc.

I believe those situations are usually due to the person being mentally unbalanced in the first place.

Similar things, unfortunately do occur in the Christian family as well, because some people are overly vulnerable to suggestion, scrupulous, hear voices, etc.

Most of the time when we are looking at extremes, there are things at work other than differing views of spirituality.

Honesty and clear thinking are a good place to start discernment, not hysteria.

This is why the Catholic Church is so very stringent and careful about investigating miracles and visions etc. Because they may not be either a divine being or a demon, but the creation of an imbalanced mind.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

I didn’t say that Christian mysticism is “New Age.” I said that it could be viewed as such. I was highlighting that “New Age” is an extremely broad term that has come to mean virtually any esoteric, Eastern-oriented alternative spirituality.

Some non-Catholic person could look at the Desert Fathers for example, or the heavy importance of asceticism in Catholicism, and conclude that it has a lot in common with, say, Yogic attitudes about spirituality, which includes the denial of “Self” in order to grow closer to God. Would that be a completely accurate conclusion to come to? I don’t think so. But you can see how somebody gleaning the surface of understanding would come to that conclusion.

Main point of this thread that I’ve gathered is that when you generalize too much, you miss out on the nuance involved in understanding other people, attitudes, and beliefs. You don’t have to personally subscribe to something in order to attempt to understand it. When Saint Pope John Paul II visited remote cultures that practiced animism, did he chastise them and tell them that they were going to Hell if they didn’t convert immediately? No. He built bridges by discussing all that Catholicism had in common with animism and their traditions, such as the veneration of ancestors.

Should he have condemned inter-faith coalitions and bridge-building, a huge aspect of his life’s work, as wrong, “compromising with the enemy,” or some such?

 

[OurLadysServant]

Yoga was created to connect with the Hindu gods (aka demons). The poses are designed to summon different “gods” so each pose is an invocation to a Hindu god. For example, sun salutations invoke the “sun god”.

Avoid yoga altogether. If you enjoy stretching, just get a book on stretching or pilates.

Hello Rosary Devotion!
I was at a talk by a ex New Age converted evangelist -he said Pilates is based on yoga and is not safe!
Yoga and Pilates are related, Pilates came from yoga.
The speaker spends his time now living off providence and speaking and writing against new age following an experience where something tried to possess him, and he converted back to the church, but not after needing confession, having to burn all his new age items, and needing deliverance from the spirit of divination.