The New Fight for Marriage

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An interesting article, and I think it makes a lot of sense. Which is too bad, in a way, because if the author is correct, and I think he is, then reasoned arguments about the nature and meaning of marriage simply are perceived as so much gibberish to those raised in the current culture. Reasoned arguments about marriage make as little sense to them as if we were speaking Vulcan.

“Natural law advocates are attempting to reason about sexuality with people who fervently and fundamentally believe reasoning has nothing to do with sexuality.”

In short, the attempt to turn back the current culture’s sexual chaos through moral reasoning seems doomed. People don’t want to reason about morals or about the nature of marriage. Nor do they care about historical precedents or tradition, or what marriage means to the stability of a civilization.

The writer says that pessimism would be wrong, but he doesn’t really give much reason to hope. He says that “The institutions of human civilization are God’s instruments. Our job is to play those instruments.”

Which is okay, I suppose. If children see good marriages, they will see the basic unit of civilization as it is intended. But increasingly, they don’t. And they are indoctrinated by the enemy.

So I don’t see much that will stop cultural collapse. But the writer promises a second article, perhaps with a different way of promoting marriage.
 
Honestly? The fight for marriage needs to be about the real threat, not the insignificant number of gay people who want to get married-but the very significant number of people who will divorce over leaving the toilet seat up or because their spouse got too old or too fat. It should be about restoring the idea of marriage as a lifelong commitment, for better or for worse-not about for better or until I get bored. Let’s face it, there’s less outrage over the couple who goes to the Elvis chapel in Vegas while they are both completely tanked than an elderly gay couple who has lived together for 30 years getting married when the law changes in their state. When the world sees that, we lose ground.

I’m not saying stop the fight, or to stop clearly stating Church teaching-what I am suggesting is a shift in strategy. Build credibility with the world by showing it that the quality of ALL marriages matter. It’s not just about one fringe group.
 
JimG said:
An interesting article, and I think it makes a lot of sense. Which is too bad, in a way, because if the author is correct, and I think he is, then reasoned arguments about the nature and meaning of marriage simply are perceived as so much gibberish to those raised in the current culture. Reasoned arguments about marriage make as little sense to them as if we were speaking Vulcan.
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The last pope called this a new ideology of evil. This absurd construct will damage our civilization in ways we cannot imagine yet. The damage done to children alone will be incalculable. Divorce is bad but reconfiguring the basic unit of civilization is quite evil.
 
Seeker1961 said:
Honestly? The fight for marriage needs to be about the real threat, not the insignificant number of gay people who want to get married-but the very significant number of people who will divorce over leaving the toilet seat up or because their spouse got too old or too fat. It should be about restoring the idea of marriage as a lifelong commitment, for better or for worse-not about for better or until I get bored. Let’s face it, there’s less outrage over the couple who goes to the Elvis chapel in Vegas while they are both completely tanked than an elderly gay couple who has lived together for 30 years getting married when the law changes in their state. When the world sees that, we lose ground.

I’m not saying stop the fight, or to stop clearly stating Church teaching-what I am suggesting is a shift in strategy. Build credibility with the world by showing it that the quality of ALL marriages matter. It’s not just about one fringe group.
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Amen!! As a person in my mid twenties, I firmly believe that no-fault easy divorce is doing an incredible amount of harm to my generation. If marriage is nothing more than a statement of affectionate feelings, when hard times come, it’s natural to walk away and try again. There’s no sense of permanence regarding marriage anymore, and it is tragic. If it is this bad now, I cannot imagine what it will be like for the next generations, when marriage will be nothing more than a tax break and a way to share insurance. Which is what the current fight, if lost, will lead to. But no-fault divorce is just as damaging, if not more so.
 
fix said:
The last pope called this a new ideology of evil. This absurd construct will damage our civilization in ways we cannot imagine yet. The damage done to children alone will be incalculable. Divorce is bad but reconfiguring the basic unit of civilization is quite evil.
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I totally agree with you.
 
As bad as divorce is the kids still have a mother and father. Homosexual pairings have no such thing. The latter is worse and more grave.
 
Seeker1961 said:
Honestly? The fight for marriage needs to be about the real threat, not the insignificant number of gay people who want to get married-but the very significant number of people who will divorce over leaving the toilet seat up or because their spouse got too old or too fat. It should be about restoring the idea of marriage as a lifelong commitment, for better or for worse-not about for better or until I get bored. Let’s face it, there’s less outrage over the couple who goes to the Elvis chapel in Vegas while they are both completely tanked than an elderly gay couple who has lived together for 30 years getting married when the law changes in their state. When the world sees that, we lose ground.

I’m not saying stop the fight, or to stop clearly stating Church teaching-what I am suggesting is a shift in strategy. Build credibility with the world by showing it that the quality of ALL marriages matter. It’s not just about one fringe group.
Click to expand...
Yes, all marriages matter. Yes, divorce is too easy. Yes, we need to work on these things. But we play a dangerous game if we start saying “well, gays are only a small percent of the population, and most of them don’t really want to get married anyway, so why such the fuss?”

Here’s the major problem with gay marriage, even from a non-religious standpoint: it completely redefines the purpose of the institution. For hundreds of years, the benefits and recognition associated with marriage has been in no small part about the procreation that it initiated, that was necessary to the advance of society. That doesn’t exist in gay marriage - which is instead focused almost exclusively on personal satisfaction.

Don’t think about today or tomorrow, think about 50 or 60 years from now when society is dominated by generations who grew up where there was neither an explicit nor an implicit preference for the traditional family model, and where relationships at any stage were rooted in how content the people involved were at any given time.

If Gay Marriage becomes legal, I’ve struggled with the issue of whether we simply shouldn’t abolish state-recognized marriage altogether. My fear that it would lead to a significant drop in the marriage rate is battling with my view that we gain nothing from subsidizing or sanctioning personal lifestyle decisions that do not pay back to society.
 
Seeker1961 said:
Honestly? The fight for marriage needs to be about the real threat, not the insignificant number of gay people who want to get married-but the very significant number of people who will divorce over leaving the toilet seat up or because their spouse got too old or too fat. It should be about restoring the idea of marriage as a lifelong commitment, for better or for worse-not about for better or until I get bored. Let’s face it, there’s less outrage over the couple who goes to the Elvis chapel in Vegas while they are both completely tanked than an elderly gay couple who has lived together for 30 years getting married when the law changes in their state. When the world sees that, we lose ground.

I’m not saying stop the fight, or to stop clearly stating Church teaching-what I am suggesting is a shift in strategy. Build credibility with the world by showing it that the quality of ALL marriages matter. It’s not just about one fringe group.
Click to expand...
Marriage as an institution needs to be strengthened. Does that happen by fewer people getting married, more out of wedlock births and fewer people thinking marriage is a precursor for having children? All three are more accepted by people as surveyed in countries where marriage has been redefined compared to countries where it has not
 
fix said:
As bad as divorce is the kids still have a mother and father. Homosexual pairings have no such thing. The latter is worse and more grave.
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These forums crack me up. This is why I read and don’t comment. Can we not simply agree that both are wrong and leave it at that? It’s like every post has to be asserting an opinion over someone else’s… It doesn’t have to be a competition over which immoral thing is more immoral.
 
Eric09 said:
These forums crack me up. This is why I read and don’t comment. Can we not simply agree that both are wrong and leave it at that? It’s like every post has to be asserting an opinion over someone else’s… It doesn’t have to be a competition over which immoral thing is more immoral.
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Amen!
 
Eric09 said:
Amen!! As a person in my mid twenties, I firmly believe that no-fault easy divorce is doing an incredible amount of harm to my generation. If marriage is nothing more than a statement of affectionate feelings, when hard times come, it’s natural to walk away and try again. There’s no sense of permanence regarding marriage anymore, and it is tragic. If it is this bad now, I cannot imagine what it will be like for the next generations, when marriage will be nothing more than a tax break and a way to share insurance. Which is what the current fight, if lost, will lead to. But no-fault divorce is just as damaging, if not more so.
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While is true that no-fault is damaging what you are missing here is that that no fault divorce and gay marriage are more linked than what you think. There is a saying people who don’t remember their history is condemned to repeat and that is what is happening here. The current actual movement for gay marriage is nothing but a continuation of the anti-life movement that started in 1950 by trying to introduce no-fault divorce. Exactly the same arguments that you hear now in favor of gay marriage and the same techniques are the same ones that were used to brainwash people into believing that no-fault divorce was ok. After they succeed with no-fault divorce they moved into contraception, abortion, radical feminism, then during the 80’s they went into marriage is not necessary cohabitation is the right thing, and now that they finally convinced many people that reproduction and sex are disassociated, that marriage is not that important, that heterosexual marriage is a mess, now they are going for gay marriage. The same arguments in favor of gay marriage were made over and over for no-fault divorce, abortion, cohabitation, etc. Don’t fall into the game that “gay marriage is only a small thing” because is not simply about two gays in love, is more than that, is a whole movement trying to poison society’s beliefs to destroy society from its very root.
 
Mary, I’m not missing it. And at no point did I suggest anyone ease up, disengage, ignore, or lessen in any way the opposition to same-sex marriage. What saddens me is the exclusivity of the current focus. It is possible to stand for more than one thing at a time. The fight against same-sex marriage is important. I’m simply trying to convey that my generation is being harmed by no-fault divorce, and that perhaps it is of importance, also. I read an article regarding (I believe) Iowa’s state house preparing a bill banning no-fault divorce. This, too, is a fight we can win. I’m not asking anyone to abandon the current fight. I’d just like some attention to both. I don’t think this is unreasonable.

I never said “gay marriage is a small thing”, either. Just to be clear.
 
fix said:
As bad as divorce is the kids still have a mother and father. Homosexual pairings have no such thing. The latter is worse and more grave.
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This isn’t true. I didn’t have a father afterward. As soon as my father was able to get away from us, he was gone for good.
 
Eric09 said:
These forums crack me up. This is why I read and don’t comment. Can we not simply agree that both are wrong and leave it at that? It’s like every post has to be asserting an opinion over someone else’s… It doesn’t have to be a competition over which immoral thing is more immoral.
Click to expand...
But that is key. Divorce is a problem. To equate it with homsexual “marriage” is to delgitimize the seriousness of the latter. I don;t think he was trying to one up you, but merely pointing out that it is misleading to the many who read the forums to simply equate the two.

It’s like equating lack of proper health care access with abortion. The gravity does matter in this case. Both should be opposed, but the ramifications of fundamentally changing what marriage is defined as had far greater negative consequences.
 
OxygenMan said:
This isn’t true. I didn’t have a father afterward. As soon as my father was able to get away from us, he was gone for good.
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Mine was gone for twenty years, until he showed up again. Genetically, we both always had a father and a mother. Homosexual couples biologically and spiritually cannot provide either.

The failings of traditional marriage have nothing to do with the legitimacy of any other non-traditional marriage. My father’s mistakes were his own, and in no way a reflection of God’s plan for marriage.
 
Eric09 said:
These forums crack me up. This is why I read and don’t comment. Can we not simply agree that both are wrong and leave it at that? It’s like every post has to be asserting an opinion over someone else’s… It doesn’t have to be a competition over which immoral thing is more immoral.
Click to expand...
Not a competition but an objective moral truth. I know the modern American mind wants every single issue to be morally equal but that just is not so.

Additionally, the relativists and homosexual apologists very much want to deflect away from the issue of “gay” marriage.
 
OxygenMan said:
This isn’t true. I didn’t have a father afterward. As soon as my father was able to get away from us, he was gone for good.
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Two men posing as mother and father is much more grave then any single parent home.
 
Frank_Drebin said:
But that is key. Divorce is a problem. To equate it with homsexual “marriage” is to delgitimize the seriousness of the latter. I don;t think he was trying to one up you, but merely pointing out that it is misleading to the many who read the forums to simply equate the two.

It’s like equating lack of proper health care access with abortion. The gravity does matter in this case. Both should be opposed, but the ramifications of fundamentally changing what marriage is defined as had far greater negative consequences.
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Exactly. Exposing children to so called homosexual marriage is beyond anything anyone could dream up. It is seriously evil. Children have rights.
 
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