The New Mormon Threat!

  • Thread starter Thread starter zerinus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Z

zerinus

Guest
The couple of emails sent to (mainly) Catholic members of CAF entitled “Confronting the New Mormon Threat” have received some attention on the boards recently. That deserves a “Mormon” reply, which I shall endeavour to provide.

Is Mormonism a “threat” to Catholicism, or to any other Christian church for that matter? Are they right to be concerned by its steep rise and rapidly gaining acceptance in society? Is the Mormon “threat” real? The answer is yes! To them it is! And there is nothing “new” in that threat either. It was a “threat” to them from the moment it was established, which is the underlying cause of all the persecution that the Church has received at their hands. All Christian churches feel that threat form them, and when they have been honest they have freely acknowledged it.

Several years ago I was passing by an ornate and attractive Anglican church. I decided to go inside and have a look. The minister also happened to be there, and when he saw me wondering about his church, he came up to me and started chatting. He appeared to have a congenial and very outgoing personality, and able to talk to strangers freely. Full of smiles, he stated a conversation. He said, “What is your story?” I said, “I am a Mormon.” When I said that, he jumped two feet in the air as if a snake had bitten him. His smile turned into a frown, and a look of fear and deep concern appeared on his face. But he was perfectly honest. He said, “You are a threat!” He said, “You teach that Christianity is apostate, and all churches have gone wrong, and your church is the only true restored church, and that makes you a threat” (or words to that effect; I am paraphrasing from memory what he said).

Well, they are right about that. We are a threat to them—in that sense of the term. We are no threat to anybody who wants to be saved; but we are a threat to their false and dead religions, if they want to adhere to it tenaciously instead of acknowledging the validity of the Restoration. This is what is taught in modern LDS scripture:

D&C 10:

53 And for this cause have I said: If this generation harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them.

54 Now I do not say this to destroy my church, but I say this to build up my church;

55 Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.

56 But it is they who do not fear me, neither keep my commandments but build up churches unto themselves to get gain, yea, and all those that do wickedly and build up the kingdom of the devil—yea, verily, verily, I say unto you, that it is they that I will disturb, and cause to tremble and shake to the center.

57 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I came unto mine own, and mine own received me not.

58 I am the light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.

The purpose of this Church is to “shake them to the very centre;” so of course they are fearful and apprehensive, and feel “threatened” by it. So would I be, if I were in their position. This is the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. It is a restoration of the original Church of Christ. It is the kingdom that Daniel saw, which destroyed all other kingdoms (and churches), but itself grew to “fill the earth,” and endured forever. Any church or kingdom that will not acknowledge it, will be destroyed by it. So of course they will fear, and feel threatened by it. Here is more of what the Lord has said about this Restored Church:

D&C 84:

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

74 Verily, verily, I say unto you, they who believe not on your words, and are not baptized in water in my name, for the remission of their sins, that they may receive the Holy Ghost, shall be damned, and shall not come into my Father’s kingdom where my Father and I am.

75 And this revelation unto you, and commandment, is in force from this very hour upon all the world, and the gospel is unto all who have not received it.

Of course this Church is a threat to all existing churches. It is destined to deatroy every single one of them that will not acknowledge its authority.

Continued . . .\
 
\ . . . Continued

If Joseph Smith ever made a true prophecy, it was this one:

“The Standard of Truth has been erected. No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing. Persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame. But the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and dependent till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, until the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah will say, ‘The work is done.’”

So how can you truly “confront” this “Mormon threat”? Well, you only have two options left: Join it (and be saved by it); or reject it (and be damned by it). There is a well-known English proverb that says, “If you can’t beat them, join them”. Mormonism can’t be beat! The only way to avert the “threat” of Mormonism is to join it. Join it, or be swept away by it. Those are the only choices you have.

zerinus
 
\
So how can you truly “confront” this “Mormon threat”? Well, you only have two options left: Join it (and be saved by it); or reject it (and be damned by it)
Desperate Catholic and Protestant and Orthodox Christians lining up to be good mormonites:

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

:whacky: Robert

ZERINUS MASTER, I am here. Where do I report to get my priesthood card?
 
Dear Zerinus,

Can you name a Mormon doing goods for humanity? So, we can learn from the example from a devout mormon on how the true mormon should live.
 
Desperate Catholic and Protestant and Orthodox Christians lining up to be good mormonites:

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :whacky: Robert

ZERINUS MASTER, I am here. Where do I report to get my priesthood card?
One of the ways in which Mormonism destroys its adversaries is that it les them knock their own brains out. It looks like you have done that already.

zerinus
 
Dear Zerinus,

Can you name a Mormon doing goods for humanity? So, we can learn from the example from a devout mormon on how the true mormon should live.
Mormons, as a group, are among the most decent and honourable of mankind; and their leaders are known to have led exemplary lives. If you want a specific example, I can give you one:

“Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood.” (D&C 135:3.)

zerinus
 
The couple of emails sent to (mainly) Catholic members of CAF entitled “Confronting the New Mormon Threat” have received some attention on the boards recently. That deserves a “Mormon” reply, which I shall endeavour to provide.

Actually, other than to Mormons themselves, I don’t think Mormonism is really much of a threat any longer; at least not domestically. It used to be that the missionaries could go door-to-door doing the “milk before meat” thing and get away with it. These days, with the prevalence of the internet, anybody with half a brain can easily discover that what the missionaries are telling them “ain’t necessarily so” and that it’s easily debunked. Tell me Zerinus dude, when was the last time you had any “golden converts” in your ward? I’m told, by Mormons themselves, that membership has largely become stagnant and ward attendance pretty much sucks. Although it still annoys me when I see the missionaries in the neighborhood, because I know they’re not presenting the whole story, I also feel sorry for them now and go out of my way to be kind to them. I grew-up with Mormons, so I know that being on a mission can be a very taxing experience. They take a lot of abuse from people, get lots of doors slammed in their faces, are given very little to live on; and they also get it from the mission president for not bringing in baptisms, and there aren’t many of those these days. I think there will always be nests of die-hard temple traipsing Mormons in certain areas of the west, but I think the days of expansion are over.

Abroad it’s a different story, but the growth is primarily in third world countries where the inactivity rate is very high. If there is such a thing as a “threat to Catholicism,” it would more accurately come from the Pentecostal/Evangelic traditions that are drawing many Catholics (and mainstream Protestants too). This is happening both domestically and abroad, even among very traditionally Catholic ethnic groups. On the other hand, I have noticed that Mass attendance has substantially improved over the last three or four years; looks to me like many “cultural Catholics,” i.e., essentially baptized agnostics, are returning.
 
Mormons, as a group, are among the most decent and honourable of mankind; and their leaders are known to have led exemplary lives. If you want a specific example, I can give you one:

“Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood.” (D&C 135:3.)

zerinus
Pride goeth before a fall.
 
Actually, other than to Mormons themselves, I don’t think Mormonism is really much of a threat any longer; at least not domestically. It used to be that the missionaries could go door-to-door doing the “milk before meat” thing and get away with it. These days, with the prevalence of the internet, anybody with half a brain can easily discover that what the missionaries are telling them “ain’t necessarily so” and that it’s easily debunked. Tell me Zerinus dude, when was the last time you had any “golden converts” in your ward? I’m told, by Mormons themselves, that membership has largely become stagnant and ward attendance pretty much sucks. Although it still annoys me when I see the missionaries in the neighborhood, because I know they’re not presenting the whole story, I also feel sorry for them now and go out of my way to be kind to them. I grew-up with Mormons, so I know that being on a mission can be a very taxing experience. They take a lot of abuse from people, get lots of doors slammed in their faces, are given very little to live on; and they also get it from the mission president for not bringing in baptisms, and there aren’t many of those these days. I think there will always be nests of die-hard temple traipsing Mormons in certain areas of the west, but I think the days of expansion are over.

Abroad it’s a different story, but the growth is primarily in third world countries where the inactivity rate is very high. If there is such a thing as a “threat to Catholicism,” it would more accurately come from the Pentecostal/Evangelic traditions that are drawing many Catholics (and mainstream Protestants too). This is happening both domestically and abroad, even among very traditionally Catholic ethnic groups. On the other hand, I have noticed that Mass attendance has substantially improved over the last three or four years; looks to me like many “cultural Catholics,” i.e., essentially baptized agnostics, are returning.
Go and say that to Karl Keating; why do you say it to me? He apparently does not agree with you.

zerinus
 
Z,
I am not sure what to say. I knew that Mormans were all about restoring their faith as the correct form of Christianity, but I never saw it as hostile in intent. Perhaps I am reading tone into your post. I do think that the tone of the Catholic Answers E-mail was alarmist at best. It is easy to say that many catholics leave the faith for Mormanism, but the inverse is also true. Catholics need to know both what their own faith teaches as well as others so that we may have better dialog.
 
Mormons, as a group, are among the most decent and honourable of mankind; and their leaders are known to have led exemplary lives. If you want a specific example, I can give you one:

“Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood.” (D&C 135:3.)

zerinus
Dear Zerinus,

As Jesus came with the teaching of Christianity, He did gave examples to the followers. Many followers followed Jesus such as Peter and the deciples, Stephen, Paul, etc you name it. I know very little of Mormonism. So, let’s take your word for granted about Joseph Smith as a good prophet (founder of Mormonism). Is there any follower of Joseph Smith you know ever live to the standard established by Mr. Joseph Smith that we can follow the good example he/she has done for humanity in his/her life?
 
Dear Zerinus,

As Jesus came with the teaching of Christianity, He did gave examples to the followers. Many followers followed Jesus such as Peter and the deciples, Stephen, Paul, etc you name it. I know very little of Mormonism. So, let’s take your word for granted about Joseph Smith as a good prophet (founder of Mormonism). Is there any follower of Joseph Smith you know ever live to the standard established by Mr. Joseph Smith that we can follow the good example he/she has done for humanity in his/her life?
Yes, all of them did.

zerinus
 
Yes, all of them did.

zerinus
I would accept that many did. I would accept that most did. I will not accept that all did.

Seriously, zerinus, when will the more plesant zerinus come out and play again? 🤷
 
Dear Zerinus,

Can you name a Mormon doing goods for humanity? So, we can learn from the example from a devout mormon on how the true mormon should live.
Good question. By their fruits ye shall know them.

Look at most any major catastrophe in the world and you will see the LDS Church in the forefront providing aid. After Katrina, a news paper praised the organizations that were the most effective in helping the local people, they listed as the top three; The Mormons, the Salvation Army, and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

More significant is the way LDS people quietly serve within their own community and among fellow members. We could also highlight the church welfare system that humanely helps people get back on their feet after going through hard times. There is the perpetual education fund that helps low income people from across the world gain a solid education and become productive in their own lands. We could talk about the chruch’s women organization, the Relief Society, whose members spend countless hours providing meals and service to the sick and those in need. I dare say that there is no organizition on earth that provides more selfless service than do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

If you want an example of an individual within the Momon Church who has devoted his life and wealth in doing good for humanity, look at John Huntsman and the Huntsman Cancer Institude. Of couse he nor any of the others mentioned above would wish to be praised for their service.

Many other examples could be given. The person through whom the Lord restored His Church preceded them all as Zerinus has already highlighted.
 
Good question. By their fruits ye shall know them.
Look at most any major catastrophe in the world and you will see the LDS Church in the forefront providing aid. After Katrina, a news paper praised the organizations that were the most effective in helping the local people, they listed as the top three; The Mormons, the Salvation Army, and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
 
One of the ways in which Mormonism destroys its adversaries is that it les them knock their own brains out. It looks like you have done that already.
The better to follow you, O Master Zerinus!

What planet do I get to rule when I eternally progress?

The Laminate formerly known as Robert
 
On the other hand, I have noticed that Mass attendance has substantially improved over the last three or four years; looks to me like many “cultural Catholics,” i.e., essentially baptized agnostics, are returning.
I attended the RCIA Rite of Acceptance this past Saturday. I was there as sponsor for my adult son who has converted. The church holds 1200 people and was jammed full.

1200 / 2 = 600 converts and reverts (half the attendees are sponsors like me)

Then I found out that only one third of the parishes in the diocese were represented on Saturday, and that there will be two more in the next two weeks. There are so many catachumens and candidates that it takes three rites to accommodate them all.

3 * 600 = 1800 converts and reverts to Catholicism this year in our Diocese of Orange, CA.

Paul
 
Good question. By their fruits ye shall know them.

Look at most any major catastrophe in the world and you will see the LDS Church in the forefront providing aid. After Katrina, a news paper praised the organizations that were the most effective in helping the local people, they listed as the top three; The Mormons, the Salvation Army, and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

More significant is the way LDS people quietly serve within their own community and among fellow members. We could also highlight the church welfare system that humanely helps people get back on their feet after going through hard times. There is the perpetual education fund that helps low income people from across the world gain a solid education and become productive in their own lands. We could talk about the chruch’s women organization, the Relief Society, whose members spend countless hours providing meals and service to the sick and those in need. I dare say that there is no organizition on earth that provides more selfless service than do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

If you want an example of an individual within the Momon Church who has devoted his life and wealth in doing good for humanity, look at John Huntsman and the Huntsman Cancer Institude. Of couse he nor any of the others mentioned above would wish to be praised for their service.

Many other examples could be given. The person through whom the Lord restored His Church preceded them all as Zerinus has already highlighted.
There is a slight problem, the Mormon Church and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is one and the same. The Catholic churches opened their doors to the victims in a big way. I read that and also heard that from a non-Catholic relative who lives near New Orleans.

Mom of 5
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top