The new translation is horrible

[MarianD]

I’m sorry, but I’m just stating facts.

This applies only to Catholics in the United States, by the way.

I mean come on. “And with your spirit”? That makes no sense in the context we say it in. “Lord I am not worthy that you be under my roof”? Taken from the Gospels, but makes no sense in the context that it’s said in during Mass. And no more “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again”? That’s a pretty important thing to say and believe.

The Mass wasn’t too conversational. People should be able to talk to God easily and in language they understand. Now it just sounds too stiff, formal, and makes no sense.

 

[teachccd]

This is the way it’s been said in Latin since Vatican II. In the English we find a dynamic (thought for thought) translation which is actually quite loosely translated. Had we used what is coming for the last forty plus years and someone suggested what we have now, there would be more people making a bigger stink. They would be complaining that we watered down the actual texts from Scripture and the ancient documents. The new translation is not new in any respect except for uniting us with the Latin languages and our Church is One and should be united in all of our liturgical texts. Oh and “Christ has died, Christ is risen…” is no where to be found in the latin text. It was inserted and misses the first person address. There is no “You” when referring to what Jesus has done for us. It is merely a statement of belief. Compare the four and see which one does not belong. Anyway, I am very happy with the changes since when I used my Roman Missal I always wondered why we never followed the Latin… teachccd

 

[NickVA]

I personally think the new translation is beautiful and more meaningful. Supposedly the reason that they decided to revise the Roman Missal, was to allow for a more accurate translation from the original Latin form.

usccb.org/romanmissal/faqs2.shtml ** : read these FAQs on the Official Roman Missal Website. They should answer your question of why the Church decided to go through with this.
**
May the Peace of Christ be With You

 

[buffalo]

The translation is a correction as the original Latin years ago was not rendered correctly.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

I’m sorry, but I’m just stating facts.

This applies only to Catholics in the United States, by the way.

I mean come on. “And with your spirit”? That makes no sense in the context we say it in. “Lord I am not worthy that you be under my roof”? Taken from the Gospels, but makes no sense in the context that it’s said in during Mass. And no more “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again”? That’s a pretty important thing to say and believe.

The Mass wasn’t too conversational. People should be able to talk to God easily and in language they understand. Now it just sounds too stiff, formal, and makes no sense.

Since the translators can’t even seem to render “Dominus Vobiscum” into English correctly (something a first year Latin student should be able to do) I have my serious doubts about it. But we’ll have to wait and see.

 

[Spirithound]

Since the translators can’t even seem to render “Dominus Vobiscum” into English correctly…

Can you elaborate?

 

[Geremia]

Since the translators can’t even seem to render “Dominus Vobiscum” into English correctly (something a first year Latin student should be able to do) I have my serious doubts about it. But we’ll have to wait and see.

Dominus Vobiscum = “[May] the Lord be with you [all].”
Et cum spiritu tuo = “And with thy spirit”

 

[Geremia]

I mean come on. “And with your spirit”? That makes no sense in the context we say it in.

I believe in Spanish they translate it the same: “Y cum tu espiritu.” And in what context would it make sense, then?

“Lord I am not worthy that you be under my roof”? Taken from the Gospels, but makes no sense in the context that it’s said in during Mass.

This makes perfect sense right before receiving Communion when the Lord, in all His body, blood, soul, and divinity, literally and actually enters into each communicant.

And no more “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again”? That’s a pretty important thing to say and believe.

This was removed? Where should it be, again? I’ve forgotten exactly.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

Can you elaborate?

There’s no “may” or “be” at at. (If the Latin text wanted to say this, it would be done using a subjunctive form of the verb “to be.” Dominus vobiscum is a simple copula.)

The correct translation is: “The Lord is with you.” As a simple illustration, think about the way the Hail Mary prayer is rendered in English. The words in Latin are the same, except Gabriel is speaking to a singular Mary (te) as opposed to the “y’all” form (vobis). The Hail Mary doesn’t go, “…full of grace, the Lord BE with you.”

Also, “dominus vobiscum” is ostensibly a quote from Ruth 2:4. There is no “may” or “be” there either, which would be rendered in Hebrew using jussive form of the verb “to be.”

 

[edward_george]

I’m sorry, but I’m just stating facts.

This applies only to Catholics in the United States, by the way.

I mean come on. “And with your spirit”? That makes no sense in the context we say it in. “Lord I am not worthy that you be under my roof”? Taken from the Gospels, but makes no sense in the context that it’s said in during Mass. And no more “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again”? That’s a pretty important thing to say and believe.

The Mass wasn’t too conversational. People should be able to talk to God easily and in language they understand. Now it just sounds too stiff, formal, and makes no sense.

Aidan Nichols, OP, in his book Looking at Liturgy, talks about the need for the language of the liturgy to be more formal. Ultimately, there needs to be some sense of mystery about the liturgy or we will lose sight of the sacred nature of it. It will become conversational, it will become familiar, and then we will not attempt to engage the mysteries contained therein. A priest once asked me (after overhearing a friend and me talking about going to Latin Mass) why Latin? Why go to Mass in a language you can’t understand? I asked him in reply–when you say Mass for the students here at the college on Sunday nights, how many of them understand what is being said in English? He responded that most of them don’t. When something is familiar to us, we begin to believe that we’ve got it all down, we understand it, we comprehend it. But recall the words of the Gospel of John–“the darkness could not comprehend (that is, surround) the light.” The darkness of our limited human intellect can never surround the light that is the mystery of God, and the liturgy should be an instrument to encourage us to more deeply seek out the mystery–not a way in which we could become proud enough to think that we don’t need to work that hard to get to God.

-ACEGC

 

[Brywan]

Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again…

The elimination of this phrase from the Mass actually makes perfect sense to me, because it is talking **about **Christ, not addressing the Holy Trinity in prayer. Can you see the difference? (The other prayers are addressing God directly.) I believe this is one of the reasons why it is being eliminated.

The creed is where we express our belief in this dogma. The Eucharistic Prayer is where we address God Himself–not talk about Him to Him, if you catch my drift…

 

[Corki]

Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again…

The elimination of this phrase from the Mass actually makes perfect sense to me, because it is talking **about **Christ, not addressing the Holy Trinity in prayer. Can you see the difference? (The other prayers are addressing God directly.) I believe this is one of the reasons why it is being eliminated.

The creed is where we express our belief in this dogma. The Eucharistic Prayer is where we address God Himself–not talk about Him to Him, if you catch my drift…

You are right, it was a liturgical example of “one of these things is not like the other…”

More importantly, IMHO, is that this option is not in the Latin original of the Missal from which the English was translated. There are three options in the Latin and four in English! The “Christ has died, …” option doesn’t exist in any other translation of the Missal that I know of.

OP, you are right that it’s a nice prayer and important to say what we believe. It just doesn’t belong in that place of the Mass. The other three options express the Mysterium Fidei better. My own preference is “Lord, by your cross and resurection, you have set us free. You are the Savior of the world.”

 

[Cable]

… “And with your spirit”?..

I think this is beautiful. I’m sure they thought it all through better than any one person could.

 

[Beachcomber]

I’m sorry, but I’m just stating facts.

This applies only to Catholics in the United States, by the way.

I mean come on. “And with your spirit”? That makes no sense in the context we say it in. “Lord I am not worthy that you be under my roof”? Taken from the Gospels, but makes no sense in the context that it’s said in during Mass. And no more “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again”? That’s a pretty important thing to say and believe.

The Mass wasn’t too conversational. People should be able to talk to God easily and in language they understand. Now it just sounds too stiff, formal, and makes no sense.

I agree with you. I also think it all sounded better in the original Latin.

 

[ohshhhhmamas]

As much as a traditionalist as I am, I have to admit I don’t much like the new translation. Sometimes direct translation between languages isn’t the best course. Things that sound perfectly natural and make sense in one language just sound silly and nonsensical in another. Sometimes word for word translations need to be forgone in favor of what sounds right and what makes sense to a native speaker. And some parts of the new translation (the “come under my roof” part, for example) are just awkward in English.

 

[juno24]

When we respond “And also with you”, it seems to imply that we are saying, “the same to you”, that is, that we are reciprocating the blessing which the priest has just bestowed upon us. We are not. Rather, we are acknowledging the unique gift given to the priest or deacon upon his ordination which transforms the very spirit of the priest or deacon. Maybe these links will help clarify.
From the USCCB and from The Archdiocese of Washington.

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

If the Holy Father is okay with it, so am I.

 

[Phemie]

You are right, it was a liturgical example of “one of these things is not like the other…”

More importantly, IMHO, is that this option is not in the Latin original of the Missal from which the English was translated. There are three options in the Latin and four in English! The “Christ has died, …” option doesn’t exist in any other translation of the Missal that I know of.

It’s certainly not one of the three official French ones but wouldn’t you know that someone felt that three options weren’t enough so he composed another one that we used to sing in my former parish:

One that goes

Christ est venu (Christ has come )
Christ est né (Christ is born)
Christ a souffert (Christ suffered)
Christ est mort (Christ died)
Christ est ressucité (Christ has risen)
Christ reviendra (Christ will return)
Christ est là (Christ is here)

youtube.com/watch?v=N9VGxX6OIYg

 

[Corki]

The Mass wasn’t too conversational. People should be able to talk to God easily and in language they understand. Now it just sounds too stiff, formal, and makes no sense.

It will only be stiff the first several times you say the prayers.

The Mass is a prayer but it isn’t an opportunity for people to “chat” with God. It is a ritualized, formal, prayer. Ritual has its own structure and language.

Think about the Our Father prayer. We say “Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name.” We don’t use language like that in everyday conversation but everyone who prays the Our Father understands it. It is a ritualized prayer. The Mass is even more so.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The translation is a correction as the original Latin years ago was not rendered correctly.

I’m guessing here but I think it predates Latin. From the beginning of Liturgy the response always has been in the context of “and with thy spirit”. Even in the English translation of the Divine Liturgy the response “and with the spirit” is there, and the DL didn’t come from Latin.