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Neil_Anthony
Guest
Wow, I guess the Oakland Cathedral is missing a lot of the fine detail and gold they used to use. It must have been a lot of man-hours to make that old cathedral. Wow.
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stevusmagnus
Guest
Bill, if this Cathedral gives you a “Catholic” feel, you unfortunately have acquired a wholly incorrect “feel” of true Catholicism. Nothing about this new Cathedral is Catholic. It is new-age on the outside and barren and Protestant on the inside.
Thbe “old” style is not “showy” just to be “showy”. The only show was for Our Lord. Our forefathers volunteered their sweat, time, and what little money they had to build beautiful churches because it all was to glorify God and a place where the whole Catholic community came together every Sunday. The beauty and majesty is for our Eternal King and to lift our minds and hearts up to Him. If you think the traditional Catholic churches were built to impress man you are mistaken. Man’s opinion matters little. All of the old architecture was to worship God. Spires used to reach out to heaven like arms. The floorplan on the old churches were always in the shape of a cross with the congregation representing the mystical body of Christ on that cross.
When you say you feel too “poor” to belong, think of the medeival peasants and poor who used to flood these beautiful Cathedrals to attend Mass and spiritually benefit from the majesty of their church and learned the faith from the stained glass. Nobody is too poor to belong.
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chrisb
Guest
From this you seem to suggest that we should be made to feel ‘worthy’ of heaven? That we should not be ‘humbled’ by our entry into a House of God?
My guess is ‘I’ would be humbled walking into this ‘new’ Cathedral so maybe many of us are ‘off-base’ with our criticisms but humility is apart of our approach into the presence of God… heaven on earth.
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Windmill
Guest
It is not “un-humble” to call bad art “bad”. Yes, it is the House of God, and that makes every church with a Tabernacle a spiritually awesome place to be - in the presence of the Divine. However, the question is, does the visible reality reflect the invisible reality? If not, then something is wrong.
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AlanF
Guest
I though factory when I first saw it.
Believe it or not, I’ve seen prisons that actually do look better than that.
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chrisb
Guest
Interior of the Cathedral of the Sacred Heart… 
http://www.richmondcathedral.org/photos/images/24cathedralinterior.jpg
Aerial View of the Cathedral…
http://www.richmondcathedral.org/photos/images/24cathedralaerialview.jpg
http://www.richmondcathedral.org/photos/images/24cathedralinterior.jpg
Aerial View of the Cathedral…
http://www.richmondcathedral.org/photos/images/24cathedralaerialview.jpg
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stevusmagnus
Guest
ChrisB,
I’m surprised the liturgical wreckovators have not gotten a hold of that yet!
Don’t let them see it or they will immediately be over with their jackhammers wanting to smash the old altar put in a woden table, hang banners, replace the crucifix with a risifix “buddy Christ” and then move the tabernacle to a closet.
I’m surprised the liturgical wreckovators have not gotten a hold of that yet!
Don’t let them see it or they will immediately be over with their jackhammers wanting to smash the old altar put in a woden table, hang banners, replace the crucifix with a risifix “buddy Christ” and then move the tabernacle to a closet.
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chrisb
Guest
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AlanF
Guest
This makes me think, what has happened to the traditions of the Church over the last 40 yeas? Church building used to be a work of love for God but now it is an opportunity for “clever” design and seen only as a community centre rather than a house of God.
The second nearest catholic church to me was build in the 1920’s and is build traditionaly with victorian gothic architecture, stained glass windows, statues etc., but my 3rd/4th nearest catholic church was build in the 1970’s and is completely round with a very modern curvy altar, to me it looks more like a theatre than a house of God. It definately places the priest at the centre of attention instead of God.
I hope Pope Benedict puts a stop to this.
The second nearest catholic church to me was build in the 1920’s and is build traditionaly with victorian gothic architecture, stained glass windows, statues etc., but my 3rd/4th nearest catholic church was build in the 1970’s and is completely round with a very modern curvy altar, to me it looks more like a theatre than a house of God. It definately places the priest at the centre of attention instead of God.
I hope Pope Benedict puts a stop to this.
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chrisb
Guest
Honestly, I wonder if we have the talent to even build a structure like this in our modern day?
Does anyone know if this is even possible?
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stevusmagnus
Guest
You are right on target. The “new” architecture reflects the “new” spirituality that pervades many of our modern “Catholic faith communities”.
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AlanF
Guest
I think we definately have the talent, if they wanted to they could build attractive traditional churches. Some people say it will cost too much, but most slightly older catholic church in England were paid for by donations from normal parishioners.
They don’t even have to be all massive cathedrals plated in gold, even the basic traditions are gone with the new buildings like shaping them like crosses.
It seems to be only the trendy modern ones in charge that seem to think it’s ugly architecture and bad music with guitars that will make the youth future generations more strong in their faith.
And as a 17 year old I strongly disagree.
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chrisb
Guest
Hey, you’re the future of the Catholic Church young man. Don’t sweat us old guys because we’ll be getting that call home soon enough and then it’s your turn to take the rudder and steer this Great Ark of Salvation to less stormy seas!
God Bless your soul!
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Bill_G
Guest
I would not say if gives me a catholic feel since I am not a catholic, it just not give me the catholic feel of the old style which for me is a bad thing and does nothing to help draw me in to the catholic church, it actually pushes me away.
The showy is my perception and opinion and without me knowing what the purpose is behind the old style I can not know that its not showy.
I was stationed in Germany for three years in the US Army, and I have seen a few of the truely grand and old style churches/catherals and the impression I got was one of showing off and almost bragging of the power and influence.
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chrisb
Guest
In the Catholic Faith there is a renunciation of our own will, and feelings, to the Will of God and obedience to that which is beyond our own will. If one is ‘worldly’ and directed by their own will and feelings and not by a deep desire to pursue Christ the Old Ways of Christianity will repulse them. This is actually how it is meant to be. The Faith of Christ is not a popularity contest to ‘win over converts’ or at least that is how it is meant to be.
If you are repulsed by the call to take up your cross and follow Christ then Christianity, and I mean ‘real’ Christianity, will always be repulsive.
I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees thee; therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes. ~ Job 42:5-6
Perceptions can be misleading… don’t trust them.
The grandeur of a Cathedral was not meant to speak of itself. It other words ‘all Temples’ are meant, by their very nature, to point elsewhere (i.e. the heavens). To suggest to what is not always apparent (i.e. we are in God’s House).
Part of the trouble with the Reformation and it’s distaste of beauty and grandeur is that they thought that houses of worship spoke more about themselves than they were to speak about the beauty and grandeur of God Himself and heaven. This same turn against displays of beauty and grandeur manifested itself after Vatican II in a sincere attempt to appeal to this sensitivity to displays of beauty and grandeur and I, personally, do mind an ‘understated’ parish but when one travels back into the history we see this same attempt to suggest the beauty and grandeur of God with the Temple of Solomon. A Temple, I might add, was suggested by God Himself.
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Bill_G
Guest
Just too much for me to quote and reply to but I think you are reading more into my statements that what is there. I do not feel repulsed, just that its a little over the top is all.
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chrisb
Guest
No problem Bill_G. I understand how forum posts can be misunderstood and responses can be exaggerated ad infinitum. If my post offenses or has exaggerated your intentions, please accept my apology. I hope that my post might have some value in there somewhere though even if it over exaggerated your intentions.
Peace.
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Thunderbird
Guest
Okay, so I got a chance to see the Cathedral for the first time today and here are all the things I liked:
I’ll definitely be stopping by the Gift Shop more than a few times - Catholic Stores are hard to come by in Oakland and I’m kinda tired of buying online. Gonna try going to confession to see what it’s like.
Oh, bonus - Bishop Allen Vigneron blessed my ring for me. Score!
- The baptismal pool is the holy water font, apparently. I wasn’t sure at first but there were no other holy water fonts visible and people dipped their fingers in so…
If it is, then it’s a nice touch. People coming in see the Baptismal Pool first and I hope are reminded of their Baptismal Vows. - There are definitely kneelers in the sanctuary, so people that had concerns about that can breathe easy.
- Very open and spacious, nothing is cramped or has the look of being jammed in.
- The Stations of the Cross come in the form of stone engravings along the walls in the sanctuary… but they aren’t labeled. Why do I like that? Because it practically forces you to at least have an idea of what the twelve stations are about.
- They’ve got a room where they have three books available for reading: The green book with the Readings for the year (I forget the official name), a bible that’s in English and Hebrew and a third book that’s completely in Hebrew. It’s probably the old testament but I’m not sure and there weren’t any labels. Still, I liked the concept.
- I checked the schedule and Confession is twice DAILY. Pure love based on that alone.
- I’m not sold on the style of the confessional. They’ve got two confessions near the front of the church (one on each side) and it’s in this ‘S’ shape hewn out of wood. You sit on one side and the priest sits on the other. No kneelers and the priest can see you very well. Not that it matters but I’m sure a lot of ‘old heads’ might have issues with it.
- So there’s like this big screen they’ve got constructed high above the altar where I presume at night they turn on the lights and it becomes this massive picture of Jesus. It’s ehhhh a little cheesy IMHO - stained glass would’ve done it better, you know?
- The sanctuary itself kind of has a protestant feel to it… Not quite sure what specifically gives me that feeling but I’ve got the feeling anyway so yeah.
I’ll definitely be stopping by the Gift Shop more than a few times - Catholic Stores are hard to come by in Oakland and I’m kinda tired of buying online. Gonna try going to confession to see what it’s like.
Oh, bonus - Bishop Allen Vigneron blessed my ring for me. Score!
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Sarabande
Guest
As a sister of an architect and a lover of art, I can appreciate the design just because I’ve had to listen to my brother complain about his professors back in college (he’s 14 months younger than me and we went to the same college) and then listen to how he and his colleagues think in terms of designing buildings. “Functional” always seem to be a word that is used. Many of his colleagues don’t believe in what is considered beautiful by most people. I look at them as sort of like the academic composers and musicians who find some of the most outrageous and totally cold, functional 20th/21st c. classical music as beautiful. They think on a different plain.
When I look at this cathedral, these words pop into my head: corporate, cold, functional, academic, uninspiring and, dare I say, ugly. To me, it comes off as not really caring about the people who come in there, but totally absorbed by the innovative design. At least with past cathedrals, many were built with so much love and care and sometimes taking decades or centuries to build because the people wanted to put as much love into it so that they or the future generations would have a special house of God to go to. A place for all kinds of people - not just for the intelligensia, the rich, the poor, the illiterate, etc. It placed all the best into one thing in order to achieve spiritual awe for all. This cathedral just looks way too academic and corporate at the same time to me. I think one of the things that remind me of it being too corporate was in the interview on the website. The man mentioned that it was a “Cathedral Center” which houses other building including the Cathedral. That sounded too much like what you’d see or hear for a secular building - such as the Lincoln Center in Manhatten.
I realize that these are opinions and know that others would disagree with me and that’s fine. I mean, if that was the only place for me to go to mass, I would go Although, it does nothing, but leave me cold and feeling like I’m in some avant garde fine arts center. Just an opinion.
When I look at this cathedral, these words pop into my head: corporate, cold, functional, academic, uninspiring and, dare I say, ugly. To me, it comes off as not really caring about the people who come in there, but totally absorbed by the innovative design. At least with past cathedrals, many were built with so much love and care and sometimes taking decades or centuries to build because the people wanted to put as much love into it so that they or the future generations would have a special house of God to go to. A place for all kinds of people - not just for the intelligensia, the rich, the poor, the illiterate, etc. It placed all the best into one thing in order to achieve spiritual awe for all. This cathedral just looks way too academic and corporate at the same time to me. I think one of the things that remind me of it being too corporate was in the interview on the website. The man mentioned that it was a “Cathedral Center” which houses other building including the Cathedral. That sounded too much like what you’d see or hear for a secular building - such as the Lincoln Center in Manhatten.
I realize that these are opinions and know that others would disagree with me and that’s fine. I mean, if that was the only place for me to go to mass, I would go Although, it does nothing, but leave me cold and feeling like I’m in some avant garde fine arts center. Just an opinion.
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Monica4316
Guest
it makes me sad looking at it 
I hope this doesn’t become a trend!!
sigh
I love churches like this:
basiliquenddm.org/
I hope this doesn’t become a trend!!
sigh
I love churches like this:
basiliquenddm.org/
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