The next pope

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For a Pope with traditional views (and often with a good sense of humour) I think we will be looking to one of the excellent cardinals from Africa.
 
Onevoice said:
That’s OK Grace Angel the Pharisees didn’t like Christ either.

I must admit I am sorry you don’t like me… But I still love you!🙂
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Onevoice I can utterly survive without your kind of loving. thank you
and God Bless
GraceAngel.
 
roveau said:
For a Pope with traditional views (and often with a good sense of humour) I think we will be looking to one of the excellent cardinals from Africa.
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Roveau I am surprised. We have a magnificent Holy Father. What on earth are you saying.
This Holy Father is a greatest gift for our times. The Holy Spirit surely has picked the two best Vicars of Christ (JPII & BXVI) for these troubled times.
GraceAngel.
 
Grace_Angel said:
Roveau I am surprised. We have a magnificent Holy Father. What on earth are you saying.
This Holy Father is a greatest gift for our times. The Holy Spirit surely has picked the two best Vicars of Christ (JPII & BXVI) for these troubled times.
GraceAngel.
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JPII and Benedict XVI can’t compare to Popes like Peter, Pius V, Pius X, Gregory the Great, and others I liked. Benedict is the best one we’ve had since Vatican II, however. I find Benedict XVI to be much better than JPII, aside from the scandal he’s involved in.
 
SpiritusSanctus said:
JPII and Benedict XVI can’t compare to Popes like Peter, Pius V, Pius X, Gregory the Great, and others I liked. Benedict is the best one we’ve had since Vatican II, however. I find Benedict XVI to be much better than JPII, aside from the scandal he’s involved in.
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I find it odd that anyone would even seek to compare Popes. Each Pope is called by the Holy Spirit to lead the Church in his own time and according to his own charism. What is actually being compared is whether the Pope’s guidance of the Church corresponds to your own opinion of the direction you would like to see the Church move, but this has little to do with the Holy Spirit and what God wills. The role of the office of Pope, at its most basic level, is not political, but spiritual. Comparing Popes is a political exercise and has no meaning separate from that.
 
I am rather fond of our current Supreme Pontiff and pray God grants him many more days to spend in His service. However, when the time comes I would like to see either a Spaniard or an Italian take up Peter’s Chair.
 
Popish_Antics said:
I am rather fond of our current Supreme Pontiff and pray God grants him many more days to spend in His service. However, when the time comes I would like to see either a Spaniard or an Italian take up Peter’s Chair.
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Why a Spaniard in particular?
 
Tsuwano said:
I find it odd that anyone would even seek to compare Popes. Each Pope is called by the Holy Spirit to lead the Church in his own time and according to his own charism. What is actually being compared is whether the Pope’s guidance of the Church corresponds to your own opinion of the direction you would like to see the Church move, but this has little to do with the Holy Spirit and what God wills. The role of the office of Pope, at its most basic level, is not political, but spiritual. Comparing Popes is a political exercise and has no meaning separate from that.
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The poster who wanted a Traditional Pope was gotten on to by another poster, I was just saying that JPII wasn’t a Traditional Pope, while Benedict XVI is closer to being Traditional than him. That’s all I was saying.
 
SpiritusSanctus said:
The poster who wanted a Traditional Pope was gotten on to by another poster, I was just saying that JPII wasn’t a Traditional Pope, while Benedict XVI is closer to being Traditional than him. That’s all I was saying.
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I would say that since Cardinal Ratzinger was the major theological watchdog at the Vatican during the pontificate of Pope John Paul II, they are similar to peas in a pod. I disagree that John Paul was not a “Traditional Pope.” I think Pope Benedict has followed John Paul’s thinking very closely.
 
Tsuwano said:
I would say that since Cardinal Ratzinger was the major theological watchdog at the Vatican during the pontificate of Pope John Paul II, they are similar to peas in a pod. I disagree that John Paul was not a “Traditional Pope.” I think Pope Benedict has followed John Paul’s thinking very closely.
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Numerous Popes have followed the thinking of their predecessors (John XXIII would be one exception) atleast to a point, but I still would not call JPII a Traditional Pope. He made no real effort to free the Traditionl Latin Mass. I read not too long ago that he was going to allow SSPX to do it at free will but the modernist Cardinals at the time complained about it and apparently were able to change his mind, because he actually went on to ex-communicate Archbishop LeFebvre. Ex-communicating such a person isn’t Traditional.
 
SpiritusSanctus said:
Numerous Popes have followed the thinking of their predecessors (John XXIII would be one exception) atleast to a point, but I still would not call JPII a Traditional Pope. He made no real effort to free the Traditionl Latin Mass. I read not too long ago that he was going to allow SSPX to do it at free will but the modernist Cardinals at the time complained about it and apparently were able to change his mind, because he actually went on to ex-communicate Archbishop LeFebvre. Ex-communicating such a person isn’t Traditional.
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As much as I am sympathetic to the Latin Mass cause, excommunicating someone who ordains bishops without Papal permission is absolutely Traditional.
 
SpiritusSanctus said:
Numerous Popes have followed the thinking of their predecessors (John XXIII would be one exception) atleast to a point, but I still would not call JPII a Traditional Pope. He made no real effort to free the Traditionl Latin Mass. I read not too long ago that he was going to allow SSPX to do it at free will but the modernist Cardinals at the time complained about it and apparently were able to change his mind, because he actually went on to ex-communicate Archbishop LeFebvre. Ex-communicating such a person isn’t Traditional.
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John Paul was a traditional Pope in that he was the legitimate successor to Peter, the Apostle and first shepherd of the Church. There are many views concerning Archbishop LeFebvre, some kind and some unkind. My own personal view is that Archbishop LeFebvre, though seeking to restore some tradiitonal practices in the Church, was not, in his own action, a traditionalist in his view of the Papacy and his relationship to it. Archbishop Lefebvre excommunicated himself by his actions.
 
In reference to the OP, I think the topic of discussing the next pope seems somewhat premature. Who knows what the world will be like in a couple of years time, never mind whos going to still be around. (Without trying to sound too pessimistic, they way scandals emerge these days, who’s to say an ‘ideal’ candidate today’ will still be so in a couple of years time.) All just idle speculation.
 
SenorSalsa said:
As much as I am sympathetic to the Latin Mass cause, excommunicating someone who ordains bishops without Papal permission is absolutely Traditional.
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No it’s not. LeFebvre was the one who was Traditional, he stood up for the TLM and spoke out against all that was taking place at Vatican II. JPII and the Vatican were mainly upset because they had hoped SSPX would die out, but ordaining the bishops kept it going and because they wanted it to die out so badly they didn’t want him to do it. He did it anyway and got excommunicated, though that excommunication has recently been lifted. LeFebvre was the one who took up for Tradition more than anyone else.
 
Tsuwano said:
John Paul was a traditional Pope in that he was the legitimate successor to Peter, the Apostle and first shepherd of the Church. There are many views concerning Archbishop LeFebvre, some kind and some unkind. My own personal view is that Archbishop LeFebvre, though seeking to restore some tradiitonal practices in the Church, was not, in his own action, a traditionalist in his view of the Papacy and his relationship to it. Archbishop Lefebvre excommunicated himself by his actions.
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Sure, John Paul II was certainly better than Paul VI. No doubt. However, that doesn’t mean he was Traditional, and I’m sorry to say that he was not. I’m not saying he was a bad Pope or anything, don’t get me wrong, but JPII (like his past two predecessors) broke Tradition. How did JPII break it? By praying with people who worship false gods and covering the crosses and even making sure Mass was not celebrated the days they were there so they wouldn’t be offended. Popes are supposed to convert non-Catholics, not be afraid to offend them. Even Archbishop LeFebvre was against what JPII was doing at that time, and was in fact one of the few people who spoke out against it.

Archbishop LeFebvre was indeed a Traditional. Some say that by not obeying Paul VI he broke Tradition, but who broke Tradition first? Archbishop LeFebvre, or Paul VI?
 
SenorSalsa said:
As much as I am sympathetic to the Latin Mass cause, excommunicating someone who ordains bishops without Papal permission is absolutely Traditional.
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You would be right if the 1917 Canon Law had still been in effect, but the 1984 Canon Law was in effect in 1988 and the Archbishop had his “necessity” clause to follow through on. The fact that the Pope made himself the final decider on the issue didn’t change anything as he simply contradicted his own Canon Law. Referees don’t change the rules during the game; they merely enforce them.
 
I actually had a dream that it would be Arch Bishop Angelo Amato.
 
pro_multis said:
Who do you think would be the best man we could have as pope from the perspective of strenghtening the traditionalist movement.

Realistic answers only please (you know what I mean 😃

I have no clue…I just do not follow church politics closely, but would like to read more about some of the priests who could be on deck.
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Dear friend,

Whilst my view is my view only, please appreciate that if you disagree.

The next pope will be anything but traditional, and he will awaken many of those who hold to tradition of what is not genuinely all good, and take us to a more middle ground where we can bring the first church out of dogma. If the church does not come out of this deep rooted bindings that are not essentially all rooted in the teachings of Christ, then the church will not stand in this world. The church is right on some things. The world is right in others. It takes a knowing and good man to see the truth in the middle.

This man will be Peter.

The first pope, and the last pope.
For all spirits who were, are.
Such as you were before this time.
But do not remember.
When Peter remembers who he was. He will fix what degenerated since his day.

But this would not happen until, the son of man comes again.

That is my heartfelt view as I feel deeply to be true.
I imagine it would be very untraditional, but just remember that Saint Malachy was a pious man of great vision. Our pope of today would not do a 16 month voyage and I do not believe our pope of today does much hard fasting in order to reach visions. Of course, not to say that he is a a lessor man, but rather that he is more utilitarian and practical in nature. One man is different to another. But true closeness to God, requires much sacrifice.
Consider this. Consider that although we bind ourselves, and wish to entrust our institutions, that give honour to a man according to his fruits.
Give honour to John Paul according to his fruits.
And likewise to another. Not to judge, but look at everything with a left eye, and then a right eye. Think twice.
Look at everything the true way it is, and not just the way to wish to find comfort within yourself.
Realise that Christ, was challenged by ego of his very own disciples.
Imagine that the church leaders of his day mocked him.
And then imagine how it is also possible today.
Imagine that your messiah is an expectation of your mind. The church and your own.
Then imagine that he also might be very different to how he was.
Do not close off your mind with tradition.
Build your house on the rocks of tradition and then open your windows to the breeze of today.
For today is one step beyond yesterday, yet yesterday is worth reflection.
Such as the sun shines on the moon and gives us night time to reflect the day.
We look forward to tomorrow, so that we can shine a cleaner light from within.

Love.

God is love.

Love is not a rule.

Love is.

Love is a flower blooming in the winter.
Love is doing what is good.
Beyond all law. Beyond all tradition.
Only God is good.
Give your heart to a muslim if she is good.
Give your heart to a buddhist if he is good.
Listen to someone who speaks of what is good.
Listen outside your four walls.
Listen to everything, for God is everything inside and everything outside.
He is the light within, and the light without.
Whatever comes in, take it to your heart, past the mind, and feel.
If it feels light, wrap your arms around it, and think, then follow
If it feels dark, wrap your light around it, and plan, then change

There are good men in every walks of life. Every corner of the globe. Every religion. Scattered wide.
Look for love, look for God. Hear him inside you. Feel him inside you.
Alone, what is he to you. Alone what is love to you.
When you go to church, you have appearances, vanities, worries, tensions.
Go to church inside yourself. Find love inside yourself.
Then bring it to the church outside yourself. Others will follow you.

Please do not get upset. Not attacking anything traditional. But to just perhaps help others as I was once helped. We all have our own paths to walk. But they all lead to God in the end.

Ciao for now
 
SpiritusSanctus said:
Sure, John Paul II was certainly better than Paul VI. No doubt. However, that doesn’t mean he was Traditional, and I’m sorry to say that he was not. I’m not saying he was a bad Pope or anything, don’t get me wrong, but JPII (like his past two predecessors) broke Tradition. How did JPII break it? By praying with people who worship false gods and covering the crosses and even making sure Mass was not celebrated the days they were there so they wouldn’t be offended. Popes are supposed to convert non-Catholics, not be afraid to offend them. Even Archbishop LeFebvre was against what JPII was doing at that time, and was in fact one of the few people who spoke out against it.

Archbishop LeFebvre was indeed a Traditional. Some say that by not obeying Paul VI he broke Tradition, but who broke Tradition first? Archbishop LeFebvre, or Paul VI?
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You seem to know so much about what a pope should do and what it means to be traditional that I’m somewhat surprised the Holy Spirit hasn’t called you to be pontiff. Imagine poor Paul VI and John Paul II; called by the Holy Spirit and yet not receiving any guidance from her, whereas Archbishop LeFebvre, inexplicably, received wisdom and grace that no one else in the Church leadership had access to. Not even the Vicar of Christ and his fellow bishops gathered in council! How proud the good Archbishop must have been!
 
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