The oddity of the LGBT alliance

[Tis_Bearself]

The book is about building a bridge to people, not to a movement. Most of the book is about respect, compassion, and sensitivity, not only of the Church toward LGBT people, but also of LBGT people toward the Church.

Many people seem unable to separate the actual humans who are LGBTQ from the “movement”. The presence of a gay person in the room, unless he or she is covering themself with sackcloth and ashes, is seen as being an endorsement of the “gay agenda”.

 

[anikins]

It’s clear to me that you are not familiar with the book and what Fr. Martin has to say to gay people such as yourself struggling to be chaste.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

It’s clear to me that you are not familiar with the book and what Fr. Martin has to say to gay people such as yourself struggling to be chaste.

Perhaps not. Do you have any helpful excerpts?

 

[theCardinalbird]

I know Dan. He’s a great guy. I might be able to look into whether he could get you one for free. Also, Washed and Waiting by Wesley Hill is a great book.

Thanks! But it’s not the price that’s the problem. My parents don’t understand why I want to stay chaste.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Thanks! But it’s not the price that’s the problem. My parents don’t understand why I want to stay chaste.

I figured. But it’s one thing to refuse to buy something for your son, and another thing to refuse to allow him to have a book that an author sends to him. Perhaps your parents would refuse both, though.

 

[theCardinalbird]

I figured. But it’s one thing to refuse to buy something for your son, and another thing to refuse to allow him to have a book that an author sends to him. Perhaps your parents would refuse both, though.

I completely agree with you. I don’t know what they’d do but they probably would frown at the thought of me reading this book. Especially my brother. I have yet to tell them I want to receive counciling regarding my SSA. I already asked my pastor and he wants to help

 

[jas84173]

Yah. It gets worse by the year. Don’t worry. The Church has faced much harder trials than this. It always prevails.

 

[Gertabelle]

Prodigal_Son:

I figured. But it’s one thing to refuse to buy something for your son, and another thing to refuse to allow him to have a book that an author sends to him. Perhaps your parents would refuse both, though.

I completely agree with you. I don’t know what they’d do but they probably would frown at the thought of me reading this book. Especially my brother. I have yet to tell them I want to receive counciling regarding my SSA. I already asked my pastor and he wants to help

It’s probably difficult to see this at the moment, but your family is likely acting in the most loving way they can. They may be frightened that getting counseling will lead to self-loathing and suicide. And they may think that the only way to protect you from self-hatred is total acceptance of SSA and immersion in the LGBT world.

Perhaps being thankful for that love – in the manner it is being expressed – is asking too much at this point. Believe me, I know. Been there myself.

Allow God to open the essential doors at this point, and to keep others closed.

Be strong and courageous, dear one. I’m sure many of us here are praying for you.

 

[Gertabelle]

One good thing about the times we live in is that I’ve had to have some very candid conversations with my teenage son about all this. We’ve talked about same-sex attraction and transgenderism and on and on.

My parents’ generation never needed to have such conversations. So when society began to go berserk, they had no intellectual argument for their beliefs. So they caved.

My son is being challenged to apply reason and intellect, and given tools to understand natural law and the true meaning of love, as well as the place of sexual expressions of love. He is also being taught compassion and what it means to love Christ in others.

Some of our young people at least are having these conversations these days. Perhaps they will be the leaders of the future to bring society back around.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

It’s probably difficult to see this at the moment, but your family is likely acting in the most loving way they can. They may be frightened that getting counseling will lead to self-loathing and suicide. And they may think that the only way to protect you from self-hatred is total acceptance of SSA and immersion in the LGBT world.

Perhaps being thankful for that love – in the manner it is being expressed – is asking too much at this point. Believe me, I know. Been there myself.

This is all beautiful. I agree about Joe’s parents, and his brother. I think there is much to appreciate about their apparent unconditional love and concern. Being loving does not make them right, of course, and it doesn’t mean that they cannot lead a person astray. But it’s something to be appreciated.

 

[mathematoons]

I notice that the author doesn’t mention contraception as an anti-nature thing… but that’s what it is. I notice that a lot of these Catholic complainers don’t talk about that; are they afraid of alienating their contracepting friends? Even Martin Luther called it a sin worse than adultery and incest—and I think the reason he said this is because it’s a sin worse than adultery and incest.

 

[theCardinalbird]

Perhaps being thankful for that love – in the manner it is being expressed – is asking too much at this point. Believe me, I know. Been there myself.

Allow God to open the essential doors at this point, and to keep others closed.

Be strong and courageous, dear one. I’m sure many of us here are praying for you.

Indeed. I see their love it’s just hard though when one parent who is an Atheist tries to debunk Catholicsm, and the other isn’t that educated on Catholicsm and tends to believe the Atheist. Also my brother is an Atheist and doesn’t agree with me being chaste.
But out of all of that, they do love me, it’s just in a different way. Bottom line, they want me to be happy

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I read your posts and really appreciate your insight.

I do have a concern, however, that some very young kids, who have never even dated, or barely into puberty are coming out as gay or bisexual.
I mean, adult sexual desire response takes years to develop .
Don’t a lot of kids intensely pair bond with their same sex best friends?
Isn’t it fairly normal for feelings to be strong, but rather undifferentiated in puberty and adolescence?
I worry that kids are putting lables on themselves when they’re too young to really understand.

And even asking these questions out loud anymore can land you in a world of trouble.

ray:t2: ray:t2:ray:t2:

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I do have a concern, however, that some very young kids, who have never even dated, or barely into puberty are coming out as gay or bisexual.

I mean, adult sexual desire response takes years to develop .

Don’t a lot of kids intensely pair bond with their same sex best friends?

Yes, and it’s normal to have sexual feelings for your same-sex friend at that age too. Kids often, if not usually, grow out of those feelings when they get a little older and begin to date. I remember quite clearly having a big attraction to my best girlfriend when I was about 14; neither of us were dating guys yet and it was kind of a case of hormones with no place to go. Neither of us ended up gay.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I read your posts and really appreciate your insight.

I do have a concern, however, that some very young kids, who have never even dated, or barely into puberty are coming out as gay or bisexual.
I mean, adult sexual desire response takes years to develop .
Don’t a lot of kids intensely pair bond with their same sex best friends?
Isn’t it fairly normal for feelings to be strong, but rather undifferentiated in puberty and adolescence?
I worry that kids are putting lables on themselves when they’re too young to really understand.

And even asking these questions out loud anymore can land you in a world of trouble.

I think what you say is generally correct, but I do think it applies better to girls than to boys. I’ve talked to lots of men about this topic, and I can count on one hand how many men have said that they had any hint of homosexuality in their childhood without having homosexual attractions later in life. It seems pretty rare to me. That may be a relic of our pornographic age, perhaps; I dunno. But I think boys who experience same-sex attraction tend to continue to experience it later in life.

I haven’t seen many Christians put firm labels on themselves early in life. Usually a teenager will have experienced consistent strong same-sex attractions for 4-6 years before they would describe themselves with the label “gay” or “bisexual”. And at that point, I think it’s pretty undeniable that we’re not dealing with a brief phase.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Yes, and it’s normal to have sexual feelings for your same-sex friend at that age too. Kids often, if not usually, grow out of those feelings when they get a little older and begin to date. I remember quite clearly having a big attraction to my best girlfriend when I was about 14; neither of us were dating guys yet and it was kind of a case of hormones with no place to go. Neither of us ended up gay.

Boys are not allowed that sort of relationship, period. Haven’t been for 40 years or more. If boys WERE allowed to be close like that, with all the ambiguity you describe, I daresay male culture would be much healthier, and it would be easier to be same-sex attracted without acting on it sexually. But any boy would stay miles away from such a relationship unless he already thought of himself as gay.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It depends on the context and culture the boy is in. Boys will usually get more resistance to it than girls, but I do know guys who went through teenage periods of significant SSA or even experimentation before realizing that at most they were bi, not gay, and chose to pursue relationships with women for one reason or another. One of them was a transvestite for a few years.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

It depends on the context and culture the boy is in. Boys will usually get more resistance to it than girls, but I do know guys who went through teenage periods of significant SSA or even experimentation before realizing that at most they were bi, not gay, and chose to pursue relationships with women for one reason or another.

I guess you’re right about that. I was thinking of my childhood. As for the experimentation, that is true, though many times boys who experiment with each other sexually still very much think of themselves as fully straight.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I so appreciate your insight…

So basically, you’re talking about an older teen, not some 11 year old.
I just know from my own life (and I’m going to be delicate here for the sake of anyone with scrupulosity), that childhood crushes emotionally and physically felt different than in post-puberty, and even was different as an adult than as a teen.

But also, kids are exposed to more sexual content and ideas, both osa and ssa, because of the internet. I wonder how this will play out in the long term…

 

[Prodigal_Son]

So basically, you’re talking about an older teen, not some 11 year old.

I just know from my own life (and I’m going to be delicate here for the sake of anyone with scrupulosity), that childhood crushes emotionally and physically felt different than in post-puberty, and even was different as an adult than as a teen.

But also, kids are exposed to more sexual content and ideas, both osa and ssa, because of the internet. I wonder how this will play out in the long term…

I think even most gay and bisexual adults wouldn’t tell a 10-year-old with confidence to call themselves “gay”. The general advice is “wait and see, but don’t hate yourself”. There are a lot of kids “coming out” at school or on Youtube or whatever, but that’s not really because of grown-ups telling them to, so far as I can tell. When you get to ages like 15 or 16, yeah, grown-ups will tell them to self-define, and I don’t know if that is the worst advice they could give, considering. At least if there are years and years of stable attraction.