The Office of the Papacy in Scripture

[tukfryer]

In another thread, on another topic, I explained why Christ said, “It is finished.” I wish to share that with you and hope it opens your eyes to understanding what was really happening when He said that. I’m afraid in your case, you missed the point from a private interpretation…

No I dont think I missed the point. I was referring to His last words on the cross.
Is the work of God entirely finished No. But what is finished is your path to salvation to be completed on the day of Christ.

Philippians 1:3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, 5 for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

You are right in your observation of the last supper, the scripture supports it also. But the finished part at the cross is the door to salvation, The blood of the passover lamb on the door post in Egypt saved from the sting of the angel of death and being passed over. Completed "finished in Christ for all men / women. Separated from death and given life in the Spirit. Ending the need for temple sacrifices, one perfect sacrifice one time for all time.Lets not confuse salvation with the glory that we have yet to see.

Jesus said It is finished

To see how Jesus uses this word you must look at other places in Scripture where he also used this word

• Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I constrained till it be accomplished!
• Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
• Luke 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have a fulfillment.
• John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said, I thirst.
• John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up his spirit.
• Acts 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulcher.
• Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
• 2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
• Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servants the prophets.
• Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
• Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the wrath of God.
• Revelation 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
• Revelation 17:17 For God has put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Jesus finished what He had come to do. It is a completed work. He said “the Son of man did not come to be ministered to but to minister and to give His life a ransom for many”

The price was “paid in full” it was “done”, “there was nothing left for Him to do nor for you and me to do”

Paul tells us in Colossians 2:14 that Jesus “blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

It is finished; the moment of His death was the moment of our salvation

“it is finished” and then He deliberately and willingly “gave up the Spirit” but ONLY AFTER He had finished

 

[pete_29]

I would think that pretty evident to someone as intelligent as yourself.
Not all Have the HS
The doctrine that I chose to overlook usually is not a salvation breaker but perhaps simply a difference in maturity.

You are only kidding yourself if you think that all Catholics are of one mind. Including the Magisterium. At least when I go before the Lord I wont be saying something like.
Well this person told me this and that person told another. I do listen carefully and learn from others but its not done blindly. The only tangible, for curtain evidence of Gods intent is scripture. I was also told to workout my own salvation, that does not mean to ignore what others say or the scriptures ether. But as scripture says the sheep know the Shepherds voice and a stranger they will not follow.

Prove to me that you have the Holy Spirit and can infallibly interpret scripture.

 

[fellowChristian]

Daniel Keeran–

Why does it have to be in scripture to be true? Did Jesus ever say to the Apostles go forth and write a book?
Where in the Bible does it say that something must be in these pages for it to be true?

Is there a verse that says that the Bible is the only authority? Can you show me where in the Bible it says something like that?

Also now that I think about it…do you know of a verse that says each man on his own is the church?

 

[PRmerger]

Not all Have the HS

How do you know which church’s interpretation has the HS?

Is the one that says only 144,000 are going to heaven filled with the HS? Is it the one that says the Lord’s Day should be celebrated on Saturday, not Sunday? Is it the one that says that Jesus and Michael the Archangel are the same creature?

All those churches claim the HS inspired their interpretation, tuk. :bigyikes:

The doctrine that I chose to overlook usually is not a salvation breaker but perhaps simply a difference in maturity.

Which doctrines are “salvation breakers”? How do you know this?

 

[empacae]

This has not been a wasted argument. As Prodigal Son1’s argunment to Daniel has been a fruitful one, even if it hasn’t been to Daniel himself. God writes straight with crooked lines, and interlopers like myself have watched from the sideline and have come away from this argument better strengthened in knowledge to take into the world. You’re an eloquent debater and thorough researcher PS1.

Many thanks,
emp

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No I dont think I missed the point. I was referring to His last words on the cross.

I guess you didn’t read my post. I referenced the scripture that was His last words on the cross.

 

[tukfryer]

Prove to me that you have the Holy Spirit and can infallibly interpret scripture.

Thats a pretty tall order, it would have been no different If you had asked me to prove Jesus rose from the dead or preform a miracle. How did Jesus respond? Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven. “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah.” And He left them and went away.
Infallibly interpreting scripture is not my claim. That is the claim of the RCC, EO and the JW it may also include the Mormons and of course extreme wackos like Jim Jones.

Instead of replying in my own strength or in words which man’s wisdom teaches, I will let the scriptures “the letters of the Apostles” speak for themselves. I would encourage you to go here biblegateway.com/keyword/ select a bible version, and search the NT for Spirit. Its a short and enlightening read. Here is a few that it picked IMO it soon becomes clear that what Jesus said to the woman at the well is true. God wants a personal relationship in the Spirit not mediators from men.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[a] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:4
And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

1 Corinthians 2:13
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 3:1
Sectarianism Is Carnal ] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Romans 2:29
but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Romans 8:27
Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 11:8
Just as it is written: “ God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not seeAnd ears that they should not hear,To this very day.”

Galatians 3:2
This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Galatians 4:29
But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Galatians 5:16
Walking in the Spirit ] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[pete_29]

Thats a pretty tall order, it would have been no different If you had asked me to prove Jesus rose from the dead or preform a miracle. How did Jesus respond? Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven. “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah.” And He left them and went away.
Infallibly interpreting scripture is not my claim. That is the claim of the RCC, EO and the JW it may also include the Mormons and of course extreme wackos like Jim Jones.

Instead of replying in my own strength or in words which man’s wisdom teaches, I will let the scriptures “the letters of the Apostles” speak for themselves. I would encourage you to go here biblegateway.com/keyword/ select a bible version, and search the NT for Spirit. Its a short and enlightening read. Here is a few that it picked IMO it soon becomes clear that what Jesus said to the woman at the well is true. God wants a personal relationship in the Spirit not mediators from men.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[a] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:4
And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

1 Corinthians 2:13
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 3:1
Sectarianism Is Carnal ] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Romans 2:29
but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Romans 8:27
Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 11:8
Just as it is written: “ God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not seeAnd ears that they should not hear,To this very day.”

Galatians 3:2
This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Galatians 4:29
But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Galatians 5:16
Walking in the Spirit ] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

My point is since you can’t prove it,(I didn’t really expect you to) there is no reason for me to believe you instead of the “wackos” in the Catholic Church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

My point is since you can’t prove it,(I didn’t really expect you to) there is no reason for me to believe you instead of the “wackos” in the Catholic Church.

All he proved to me was that the Apostles wrote with authority. Some take everything Christ spoke only to His Apostles and apply it to themselves. Some take everything an Apostle said about himself or those he ordained and apply it to themselves. Yet nowhere in scriptures can they produce evidence of anyone appointing/ordaining themselves to an authority position.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I wanted to let everyone know, so they don’t think I am ignoring their posts to me, I just got called in for a 72 hour straight shift. I’m in EMS. It was originally two 24 hour shifts with a break in between.

I would appreciate prayers that I am able to respond fast, safe, professional and with compassion. Don’t forget to pray for those who need an EMS response.

There are a lot of competent people here to answer all your questions. I will browse through and try to catch up when I get back home.

God Bless you all.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I did not respond for the fact that you ignored 80% of my statement, you selected the one that suits your desired rebuttal.

Whatever.

My point was to show you that your assertion about the canon was false.

Some days, you hit a grand slam, some days you’re happy with an infield single.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Where does scripture say James was a SINGULAR bishop of Jerusalem? Paul says James was one of THREE pillars in Jerusalem.

Paul refers to them as such because they were part of the original twelve.

And as I have pointed out to you repeatedly, Apostles had universal jurisdiction. Bishops do not.

Of course, these three were Apostles AND Bishops in a sense. Thus, Peter held the office of Apostle with universal jurisdiction over the entire church as well as the office of Bishop of Rome with responsibility for that local church.

But this is another of your attempts to run down a rabbit trail because the REAL battle is going against you; namely, that Peter is the earthly head of the Church established by Jesus.

In Acts 15, Peter formulates a doctrinal judgment concerning the Gentiles that is infallible. This infallibilty is certain because a) it concerned faith and morals and concerned the entire church, b) the entire council agreed with Peter’s decision and wrote a letter documenting it, and c) the letter declares that “it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us” (Acts 16:28).

James became head of the Church in Jerusalem after Peter’s arrest, imprisonment and miraculous escape recorded in Acts 12:17: “Peter motioned with his hand for them to be quiet and described how the Lord had brought him out of prison. “Tell James and the brothers about this,” he said, and then he left for another place.”

Another place means another city, Daniel.

As head of the Church in Jerusalem, James acquiesced to Peter decision about circumcision and spoke pastorally to those of the “circumcision group” that were influential in Jerusalem. He’s basically saying to these people, “Brothers, it is my judgment that Peter has spoken. The matter is settled.” He also formulated the pastoral plan used to implement Peter’s doctrine.

From this we have no basis for believing that Peter was not the head of the universal Church; James was Bishop of the local Church but not equal or superior in authority to Peter.

 

[tukfryer]

My point is since you can’t prove it,(I didn’t really expect you to) there is no reason for me to believe you instead of the “wackos” in the Catholic Church.

Well nether can you or any member of your church. The only evidence you claim is another mans testimony, but I suppose that is what you desire.

We see here that the HS is a part of all believers not just Apostles.
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Here we see that the HS is not given in measure, its the same.
John 3:34
For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.

Here we see that the HS is transmitted by the hearing of faith.
Galatians 3:2
This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Now put those 3 together “received by hearing” “Must have for salvation” “is the same Spirit” and here is a verse that confirms it.
Ephesians 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

It is a necessary part of all those born again. And its the same Spirit that spoke from Abraham to the Apostles. The same Spirit that resides in all Christians.

All he proved to me was that the Apostles wrote with authority. Some take everything Christ spoke only to His Apostles and apply it to themselves. Some take everything an Apostle said about himself or those he ordained and apply it to themselves. Yet nowhere in scriptures can they produce evidence of anyone appointing/ordaining themselves to an authority position.

Who appointed Abraham and Moses. Where is the laying of hands confirmation of Danial, Isaiah, Samuel, Jeremiah, Davids, just like Pauls and others came AFTER the calling of God, and the above post show that “after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.” In the same manner the HS is first, then men act. Men dont act or preform a service that God then responds to. Some Protestant churches look for those that God have appointed then make teachers of them. Catholics do the appointing and expect God to follow their lead. This conversation reminds me of Balaam and his donkey. He also wanted it his way. He is remembered as the maker of the stumbling block

The story can be found in the book of Numbers chapter 22. Balaam was believed to have the ability to bless or curse people. Balaam knew the LORDS will but he chose to ignore it for earthly profit, nearly costing his life. What became of Balaam? When he tried to curse the Israelites, all he could do was utter blessings. This was very frustrating to a man who was only interested in getting his money. Balaam should have given up trying to curse the Israelites and just accepted God’s will. Instead, his greed caused him to come up with a new plan: he told Balak to tempt the children of Israel to sin.
Rev. 2:14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.
Stumbling blocks come in many sizes and shapes. They are always placed between God and men. And just as Balaam beat his donkey some continue today. Proverbs 20:12 The hearing ear and the seeing eye, The LORD has made them both. Swing away at your donkey Balaam, just know that he has both ear and eye to see the LORD.

 

[Dominicanis]

“Catholics do the appointing and expect God to follow their lead.”

Ah, no. Catholic bishops, priests, deacons, religious brothers and sisters, and laity all follow the call of the Holy Spirit just like others who desire to do God’s Will. Since it is impossible for men to read others’ hearts and souls, there is no objective basis for this claim other than a prejudicial attitude toward Catholics.

“Men dont act or preform a service that God then responds to.”

That’s not what a sacrament is in the Catholic understanding. God in the Person of His Son gave His Church His way to worship Him and enter into a relationship with Him. A sacrament is an outward sign of an inward grace; God chose to work this way with men. It was His way to show that man as matter and spirit is to not separate the two into a false dichotomy of Gnosticism. He has us use created matter to confer special spiritual graces because His Son was both fully Divine and fully human, and we are to remember that.

Scripture testifies that the Apostles were unique as leaders of the early Church in Acts 5:13. They had real authority given to them from Our Lord Himself in Matt. 10:1, 40, Luke 9:1 and Luke 10:16, 19. For a longer list of verses, please see:

scripturecatholic.com/apostolic_succession.html

“Stumbling blocks come in many sizes and shapes. They are always placed between God and men.”

To paraphrase Fulton J. Sheen, May God forbid I see my brothers and sisters as anything other than opportunities to grow in grace by loving God and neighbor.

As for the point about Balaam’s donkey, that appears to be a non-sequitir. Perhaps you’d be kind enough to clarify its relevance to the topic of this thread.

Yours in Christ’s Love,
Dominicanis

 

[pete_29]

Well nether can you or any member of your church. The only evidence you claim is another mans testimony, but I suppose that is what you desire.

We see here that the HS is a part of all believers not just Apostles.
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Here we see that the HS is not given in measure, its the same.
John 3:34
For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.

Here we see that the HS is transmitted by the hearing of faith.
Galatians 3:2
This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Now put those 3 together “received by hearing” “Must have for salvation” “is the same Spirit” and here is a verse that confirms it.
Ephesians 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

It is a necessary part of all those born again. And its the same Spirit that spoke from Abraham to the Apostles. The same Spirit that resides in all Christians.

Who appointed Abraham and Moses. Where is the laying of hands confirmation of Danial, Isaiah, Samuel, Jeremiah, Davids, just like Pauls and others came AFTER the calling of God, and the above post show that “after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.” In the same manner the HS is first, then men act. Men dont act or preform a service that God then responds to. Some Protestant churches look for those that God have appointed then make teachers of them. Catholics do the appointing and expect God to follow their lead. This conversation reminds me of Balaam and his donkey. He also wanted it his way. He is remembered as the maker of the stumbling block

The story can be found in the book of Numbers chapter 22. Balaam was believed to have the ability to bless or curse people. Balaam knew the LORDS will but he chose to ignore it for earthly profit, nearly costing his life. What became of Balaam? When he tried to curse the Israelites, all he could do was utter blessings. This was very frustrating to a man who was only interested in getting his money. Balaam should have given up trying to curse the Israelites and just accepted God’s will. Instead, his greed caused him to come up with a new plan: he told Balak to tempt the children of Israel to sin.
Rev. 2:14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.
Stumbling blocks come in many sizes and shapes. They are always placed between God and men. And just as Balaam beat his donkey some continue today. Proverbs 20:12 The hearing ear and the seeing eye, The LORD has made them both. Swing away at your donkey Balaam, just know that he has both ear and eye to see the LORD.

What I desire is for you to stop trying to convince everyone that you are right and the Catholic Church is wrong when all you are doing is interpreting scripture to fit your beliefs. When everyone does it, like I said before, you get scriptural anarchy. Everyone with their own interpretation and no one having the whole truth. Surely, Jesus did not mean it to be this way so I would think that He left some controlling authority, and to me that has to be the Catholic Church.

 

[tukfryer]

What I desire is for you to stop trying to convince everyone that you are right and the Catholic Church is wrong when all you are doing is interpreting scripture to fit your beliefs. When everyone does it, like I said before, you get scriptural anarchy. Everyone with their own interpretation and no one having the whole truth. Surely, Jesus did not mean it to be this way so I would think that He left some controlling authority, and to me that has to be the Catholic Church.

I’m simply expressing my opinion same as you I am not an island, there is no lack of Christians that agree with my statements. If you believe in Matthew 16:18 and find comfort in the controlling authority so be it.

As for the point about Balaam’s donkey, that appears to be a non-sequitir. Perhaps you’d be kind enough to clarify its relevance to the topic of this thread.

Yours in Christ’s Love,
Dominicanis

As for non-sequitir here is a clue “Balaam was believed to have the ability to bless or curse people”. Sound familiar? whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
He didnt secede in cursing Israel, he had lost connection with Gods direction, he became blind. Even after he realized his donkey was more spiritually discerning than him he continued by placing stumbling blocks in Israels way teaching others to do the same. Who would Balaams donkey be? Is there a church “Balaam” that beats the “donkey” that did not go where Balaam wished? It was just a thought, why I shared it? Im not sure.

 

[pete_29]

I’m simply expressing my opinion same as you I am not an island, there is no lack of Christians that agree with my statements. If you believe in Matthew 16:18 and find comfort in the controlling authority so be it.

There are no lack of Christians, though they agree with you on this statement, will disagree with you on others. Which of you is right? How can the Holy Spirit give so many different people different interpretations of scripture? Is the Holy Spirit schizophrenic?

 

[Randy_Carson]

“Catholics do the appointing and expect God to follow their lead.”

Ah, no. Catholic bishops, priests, deacons, religious brothers and sisters, and laity all follow the call of the Holy Spirit just like others who desire to do God’s Will. Since it is impossible for men to read others’ hearts and souls, there is no objective basis for this claim other than a prejudicial attitude toward Catholics.

“Men dont act or preform a service that God then responds to.”

That’s not what a sacrament is in the Catholic understanding. God in the Person of His Son gave His Church His way to worship Him and enter into a relationship with Him. A sacrament is an outward sign of an inward grace; God chose to work this way with men. It was His way to show that man as matter and spirit is to not separate the two into a false dichotomy of Gnosticism. He has us use created matter to confer special spiritual graces because His Son was both fully Divine and fully human, and we are to remember that.

Scripture testifies that the Apostles were unique as leaders of the early Church in Acts 5:13. They had real authority given to them from Our Lord Himself in Matt. 10:1, 40, Luke 9:1 and Luke 10:16, 19. For a longer list of verses, please see:

scripturecatholic.com/apostolic_succession.html

“Stumbling blocks come in many sizes and shapes. They are always placed between God and men.”

To paraphrase Fulton J. Sheen, May God forbid I see my brothers and sisters as anything other than opportunities to grow in grace by loving God and neighbor.

As for the point about Balaam’s donkey, that appears to be a non-sequitir. Perhaps you’d be kind enough to clarify its relevance to the topic of this thread.

Yours in Christ’s Love,
Dominicanis

:clapping:

 

[PRmerger]

As for non-sequitir here is a clue “Balaam was believed to have the ability to bless or curse people”. Sound familiar?** whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” **
He didnt secede in cursing Israel, he had lost connection with Gods direction, he became blind. Even after he realized his donkey was more spiritually discerning than him he continued by placing stumbling blocks in Israels way teaching others to do the same. Who would Balaams donkey be?/

Are you including the Apostles here, tuk? Are you saying that they are analogous to Balaam’s donkey? :tsktsk:

Also, you never answered my questions here:

Not all Have the HS

How do you know which church’s interpretation has the HS?

Is the one that says only 144,000 are going to heaven filled with the HS? Is it the one that says the Lord’s Day should be celebrated on Saturday, not Sunday? Is it the one that says that Jesus and Michael the Archangel are the same creature?

All those churches claim the HS inspired their interpretation, tuk.

The doctrine that I chose to overlook usually is not a salvation breaker but perhaps simply a difference in maturity.

Which doctrines are “salvation breakers”? How do you know this?

 

[MonFrere]

I’m simply expressing my opinion same as you I am not an island, there is no lack of Christians that agree with my statements. If you believe in Matthew 16:18 and find comfort in the controlling authority so be it.

To quote The Church Lady - Well ain’t that special!!

This reminds me of the passage of scripture where Jesus asks the disciples who men thought He was. Some said Elijah, some John the Baptist risen from the dead, some the prophet, etc. Then Jesus asked His disciples who they thought He was and St. Peter said - You are Christ; the Son of the living God. And Jesus said; I am so pleased with you Peter that you felt free to express your personal opinion. Good for you!! I’m giving you the right to express your opinion. Your opinion shall be first among all others! And after you die; all opinions will be equal. And by this shall all men know you are my disciples that you share your opinion with one another.

MonFrere