The Old Testament is unfathomable...

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Something to always consider in reading the Bible is the historical context of the time.

It is easy for us to say that God told the Israelite’s to do these things, but what we have to remember is the way that the cultures of that time thought of war. They truly believed that the wars of man were the wars of the gods. So when Israel is fighting a pagan tribe, they believed that God was fighting against the tribe and their god(s) with the Israelites.

I have a friend who is a bible scholar and that’s what she told me when I asked this very question.
 
BryanM27 said:
Something to always consider in reading the Bible is the historical context of the time.

It is easy for us to say that God told the Israelite’s to do these things, but what we have to remember is the way that the cultures of that time thought of war. They truly believed that the wars of man were the wars of the gods. So when Israel is fighting a pagan tribe, they believed that God was fighting against the tribe and their god(s) with the Israelites.

I have a friend who is a bible scholar and that’s what she told me when I asked this very question.
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God really was fighting against the godless societies… Remember that after the Flood, only Noah and his people lived on the earth… so we are all descended from a very righteous God-fearing man… So all his descendants knew soemthing about God… (we can safely assume)… there was no excuse… so when they went off and established some town or other… and then allowed themselves to fall into perversity (Sodom, e tc) they were without excuse… and so that’s why God wanted to eliminate such places fro m the earth… He promised never to flood the entire earth again, but he never promised he wouldn’t use other means - such as war - to get rid of the… childrne of the devil…
 
distracted said:
I’m having a hard time with some of the stuff in the Old Testament…

like how God supposedly told the Israelites to slaughter… all those towns and cities… and kill EVERYONE… even young children…

In a way i u/stand cuz if the children wer allowed to survive they would later find out that their parents had been killed by the I’s … and they would rebel… and i realize that death is not the ultimate… uh… disaster, especially since God can deal with us - and does deal w/ us - after death… It is not a problem for him to save people after death… as Catholics have always believed…

but still… it seems that life was incredibly cheap in the Old Testament… lots of revenge… lots of wars and bloodshed… lots of innocents slaughtered… and God seemed to approve of it… (?)

i can u/stand why people claim that the Bible was written by men (only)…

****and as i have said before, if the Bible was all i had to go by …

I would NOT be a Christian…****

ok… maybe i would be a kinda Christian… but certainly not a devout one

Thankfully we DON’t just have the Bible… We Catholics have the Church…

Please help me (and others) to understand a little better…

i also know about how God wanted to wipe out idolatry and that He used the Israelites’ take-overs of their land to punish their wickedness… but if He didn’t reveal Himself to those other nations… well, kinda dont get it… why they should have been… killed so the Israelites could have their land… etc i mean it seems they were sinners out of total ignorance more than… malice or whatever… and i also realize that their idolatry was virtually worshping satan… though, agan, seems it was rather unintentional ??

Why do we Christians dismiss so much of the Old T?

seems that we must accept all or none… :confused:
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I am a Christians and I do not dismiss the Old Testament. You are looking at the Old Testament in the wrong way.

It is the history of man’s relationship with GOD. It is why we need Jesus. The whole Old Testament leads up to Jesus.
 
I have always found the Old Testament very comforting. No matter how bad the Israelites (and they certainly find every chance between God’s amazing miracles to rebel) get, God never threatens Hell as a punishment and He is always ready to forgive and restore if they stop rebelling and most of the punishments are more a case of God pulling back His blessing/protection and letting Israel suffer natural consequences (i.e. losing battles against stronger enemies).
 
=distracted…I’m having a hard time with some of the stuff in the Old Testament…
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like how God supposedly told the Israelites to slaughter… all those towns and cities… and kill EVERYONE… even young children…
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In a way i u/stand cuz if the children wer allowed to survive they would later find out that their parents had been killed by the I’s … and they would rebel… and i realize that death is not the ultimate… uh… disaster, especially since God can deal with us - and does deal w/ us - after death… It is not a problem for him to save people after death… as Catholics have always believed…
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but still… it seems that life was incredibly cheap in the Old Testament… lots of revenge… lots of wars and bloodshed… lots of innocents slaughtered… and God seemed to approve of it… (?)
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i can u/stand why people claim that the Bible was written by men (only)…
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***Some points for consideration:
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  1. Either the Bible is true or it is of NO VALUE in the salvation of souls.
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  1. Because we do not understand something in the bible is harldy grounds to dismiss the bible.
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  1. God does not change, so the God of the OT ithe same God of th NT COLOR=“DarkRed”]Mal. 3:6*** "For I the LORD do not change; therefore you,
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  1. If one reads the chapter or the entire book, rather than just culling a passage here and there; one will find in every case God’s Justification for His actions. It has to do with preserving the faith of the Hebrew Nation from being influenced further and contaminating the Jewish Faith that Yahweh was teaching and introducing of: ONEGOD, One Faith; One set of beliefs. [NOT so different from what GOD WANTS TODAY]. Because the pagans worshiped MANY gods, bcause it seemed the logical [easy sell] thing to do; Yahweh took extreme measures to protect the New Faith of od nd God alone you shall Worship. [Exo. Chapter 20]
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***5. Life is NEVER cheap to God; But God is and demands to be the Giver of Life and the taker of life, as THE CREATOR of life. READ Isa. 43:7 and 21 *to see why God Created us.
  1. In every period God provided men to TEACH the Faith. WHY? Because understanding it is not easy, certainly not an automatic that everyone can discern for themselves.
**2 Kgs.23: 2 **And the king went up to the house of the LORD, and with him all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests and the prophets, all the people, both small and great; and he read in their hearing all the words of the book of the covenant which had been found in the house of the LORD.

Rom. 10: 15-18 "And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”
So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ. But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have; for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth,and their words to the ends of the world.”

So No excuse will be accepted by God for “not knowing.” If yo don’t know, do as you hve done here: ASK!**

Be warned:2nd. Peter Chapter One verse 20 -21 “First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. “

2nd. Tim. 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work"

**2 Cor. 4: 2-3 **“We have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways; we refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing."

Love and prayers,
Pat
 
schaick said:
I am a Christians and I do not dismiss the Old Testament. You are looking at the Old Testament in the wrong way.
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this sounds so arrogant… and is NOT true… You have no idea how i read the Bible… and i never said i didn’t accept the OT… its just that i had some human thoughts to deal with… as just about everyone does… i wiish people on CAF would stop acting like they know everything and others don’t know anything… happens ALL the freaking time… What … is everyone on some kinda ego trip or soemthign??? geeze…
 
PJM said:
[2. Because we do not understand something in the bible is harldy grounds to dismiss the bible.

3Pat
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where did i say i didn’t accept it? where did i say i dismissed it???

geeze… its like a plague or something… how so many posters here do that… put words in my mouth… and the mouths of others…

i just dont get it…

i didn’t read the rest of the post cuz i don’t like reading stuff written by people who just totally do NOT understand me…

if i wanted to be misunderstood, i would go visit my family… :o
[/quote]
 
  1. Either the Bible is true or it is of NO VALUE in the salvation of souls.
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Technically, that’s not necessarily true. That is a fallacy of false dichotomy. In theory, even if we said elements of Scripture are incorrect, other parts could still be truthful. This is how Muslims view the OT and NT: they see that there are elements of True in the Hebrew and Apostolic Scriptures, but that they were corrupted and hence the need for the Koran. Obviously, I believe Scripture to be True, but I am just pointing out the danger of faulty logic (fallacy of false dichotomy).

EDIT: Obviously as Catholic we are required to accept Sacred Scripture as the Truth.
So No excuse will be accepted by God for “not knowing.” If yo don’t know, do as you hve done here: ASK!
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Not true according to the Church. Have you heard of the doctrine of invincible ignorance?
 
where did i say i didn’t accept it? where did i say i dismissed it???
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Well, you do use some statements that make it sound like you question the truthfulness/validity of the OT, such as:
like how God supposedly told the Israelites to slaughter… all those towns and cities… and kill EVERYONE… even young children…
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‘Supposedly’ implies that you think God may have not actually issued such an order.
 
nsper7 said:
Well, you do use some statements that make it sound like you question the truthfulness/validity of the OT, such as:

‘Supposedly’ implies that you think God may have not actually issued such an order.
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***i question everything… That hardly means that i dont accept it… Spouses undoubtedly question the love of their spouse… but that doesn’t mean they run for divorce court every time they question… ***
 
nsper7 said:
I have always found the Old Testament very comforting. No matter how bad the Israelites (and they certainly find every chance between God’s amazing miracles to rebel) get, God never threatens Hell as a punishment and He is always ready to forgive and restore if they stop rebelling and most of the punishments are more a case of God pulling back His blessing/protection and letting Israel suffer natural consequences (i.e. losing battles against stronger enemies).
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what Bible do you read from???

God (in my OT) always wants to annihilate the Israelites for their sins…

I am always comforted by the OT also… because i see that God hates sin… .unlike most non-God beings in the world… who think they do whatever they want to other humans, for instance… and God will still “LOVE” them… let them into Heaven, etc…

yeah, OSAS works great for me… some think… but don’t live your Everything Goes life around me… don’t be MY boss, or my spouse… or MY neighbor… cuz i never know what you will do to me… and then justify it cuz you are saved regardless… :rolleyes:
 
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