The One Place on Earth Not Destroyed in '2012'

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Zundrah said:
How? 🤷
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jakasaki said:
Yeah, you’re right. I just left a forum site where the Sunny and Shia are ripping each other apart.
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That is how. Muslims have been known to outright attack members of other sects of Islam. Sunnys don’t like Shias and neither of them like the Ahmydi. And these attacks have been very violent at times and resulted in many innocent deaths
 
choy said:
thats not smart, thats bigotry. that you think its okay to depict such destruction on one religion but think its not correct to do the same on another religion for whatever reason. when you start measuring similar things with different standards, thats where intollerance comes in.

you can insult Christians but not Muslims
you can insult Arabs but not Blacks
etc.

i’m not suggesting that we should start insulting everyone. but if we’re going to pull our punches on one group, then that reason should apply to all similar groups.
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Since when are we talking about ‘reason?’ We are talking about a disaster movie (which I have not seen and have no clue about) with special effects depicting the destruction of many well recognized and iconic landmarks. I doubt very much that choosing these landmarks was done in the spirit of insulting Catholicism. I rather imagine that if Mormonism were a larger religion with landmarks that more people would recognize, that the SLC Temple would have been treated to a little bit of destruction, too, and I wouldn’t feel a bit insulted.

I notice that the list of places destroyed include the White House, Big Ben, the Capitol and the House of Representatives, Notre Dame and Westminster Abby–oh, and the entire city of Los Angeles–which should worry me more since I sort of live there—or at least close enough to there to go when it does. 😉

…this, by a liberal who hates organized religion and the USA anyway (he has done a bang up job destroying the USA several times now…)

I don’t blame him a bit for refraining from destroying the Kabaa…and if I were Muslim, I would be insulted by that exclusion because of the reasoning behind it. In fact, when you think about it, excluding the Kabaa is a bigger insult to Islam than including it would have been; it’s saying to the Muslims…“I can’t trust you to remember that this is a movie about the end of the world and everything goes…you are going to behave like lethal monsters if I do this, so never mind.”

It is pretending that they do not exist and don’t matter.

If I were a thinking Muslim, I might issue a fatwa because he ignored me.

🤷

but then Muslims are notorious for issuing fatwas for really dumb things. Too bad that such things are also notoriously lethal.
 
ralphinal said:
That is how. Muslims have been known to outright attack members of other sects of Islam. Sunnys don’t like Shias and neither of them like the Ahmydi. And these attacks have been very violent at times and resulted in many innocent deaths
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What do they teach that is different? Do they all use the same quaran?
 
ralphinal said:
That is how. Muslims have been known to outright attack members of other sects of Islam. Sunnys don’t like Shias and neither of them like the Ahmydi. And these attacks have been very violent at times and resulted in many innocent deaths
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Yes indeed and let’s not forget the Ba’ah.
 
Zundrah said:
What do they teach that is different? Do they all use the same quaran?
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If memory serves, it has to do with the ahadith, the successor of Muhammed, and other such issues.

The Amahyadi hold that the Messiah has returned in the form of a man about a hundred years ago.
 
ralphinal said:
If memory serves, it has to do with the ahadith, the successor of Muhammed, and other such issues.

The Amahyadi hold that the Messiah has returned in the form of a man about a hundred years ago.
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Ahh, no wonder they are going crazy and fighting each other.
 
Zundrah said:
What do they teach that is different? Do they all use the same quaran?
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This is now taking the thread into a different direction.

I’ll make it short. They have the same koran, but different traditions and hadiths and different religious books.

If you want to know more, start a new thread.
 
Zundrah said:
😛

Okay. Same language?

**! **

😦
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OY VEY 😛

Yes, the koran is in Arabic.

Why the sad face when I said start a new thread?

There are many sects/divisions in islam and we have members here that are Sunni & Shia and Ahamdi & Ba’ah.
 
credoinunum said:
Does anyone actually consider the fact that, by and large, Catholics are much more free with their iconography? Churches, statutes, artwork, etc are fairly common for Catholics. For Islam, it is precisely the opposite. There are virtually no icons or depictions of significant religious artwork. Many in Islam would take it a step further and have no iconography at all of any kind. The notion, therefore, of of having a holy site like the Kabaa which is so central that every Muslim man with the means must visit it (the Hajj) rendered into CGI and then destroyed would justifably incense them, and would lead some to take extreme action. So if Emmerich is doing a little CYA…fair play to him.
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Excuse me, but what about incenses me and other Christians? Do you think we LIKE seeing the statue of Christ the Reedemer reduced to rubble or the dome of the Vatican falling off and crushing people? Why is it that our feelings and our sensibilities aren’t taken into account, if this director is so concerned about not offending people? It’s because he knows that we won’t kill him over it, because we recognize that it’s a movie. A stupid movie, a movie in poor taste, but a movie nonetheless. Muslims, on the other hand, go crazy about every little thing. By rolling over and saying “okay, I’ll go out of my way to show Islam triumphant over everything on the planet”, it just emboldens them to continue to act like psychopaths instead of growing the hell up and realizing that Islam does NOT hold a special place above all other religions, and people do NOT respect it or the thugs that run around blowing stuff up in “defense” of it.
Some of the terms being associated with Muslims (“lunatics”, “militaristic”, sarcastic use of the term “Religion of Peace”) are really disconcerting and portray more of an us/them mentality than what the Church would seem to be espousing, particularly with the Holy Father’s outreach to Islam.
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Oh boo hoo. I hate to say it, but when it comes to broad depictions of a religion (since you’re right, not every Muslim is a violent idiot; many are quite nice, in fact), it IS an “us vs. them” situation - they’re trying to silence us and make us obey the rules of their religion that are inherently anti-Christian, anti-minority, anti-free expression, anti-art, anti-culture, anti-development, and anti-peace. Some of us are saying that we shouldn’t be doing this, while others of us are not admitting that if we were talking about any other group none of this would be in the least bit acceptable.

Wake the hell up! :mad:
Still…if you want write a nastygram to Roland Emmerich for blowing up St. Peter’s and for not blowing up the Kabaa, that’s your perogative. I’m sure he’ll read it and consider it thoughtfully for his next picture.;
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I don’t think anyone here is saying that he should blow up the Kaba’a. The issue is what kind of message he is sending by blowing up all the symbols of Christianity without a second thought while leaving the monolith of Islam standing because he’s afraid he might get injured or murdered if he doesn’t. That was HIS explanation.
 
dianaiad said:
Since when are we talking about ‘reason?’ We are talking about a disaster movie (which I have not seen and have no clue about) with special effects depicting the destruction of many well recognized and iconic landmarks. I doubt very much that choosing these landmarks was done in the spirit of insulting Catholicism. I rather imagine that if Mormonism were a larger religion with landmarks that more people would recognize, that the SLC Temple would have been treated to a little bit of destruction, too, and I wouldn’t feel a bit insulted.

I notice that the list of places destroyed include the White House, Big Ben, the Capitol and the House of Representatives, Notre Dame and Westminster Abby–oh, and the entire city of Los Angeles–which should worry me more since I sort of live there—or at least close enough to there to go when it does. 😉

…this, by a liberal who hates organized religion and the USA anyway (he has done a bang up job destroying the USA several times now…)

I don’t blame him a bit for refraining from destroying the Kabaa…and if I were Muslim, I would be insulted by that exclusion because of the reasoning behind it. In fact, when you think about it, excluding the Kabaa is a bigger insult to Islam than including it would have been; it’s saying to the Muslims…“I can’t trust you to remember that this is a movie about the end of the world and everything goes…you are going to behave like lethal monsters if I do this, so never mind.”

It is pretending that they do not exist and don’t matter.

If I were a thinking Muslim, I might issue a fatwa because he ignored me.

🤷

but then Muslims are notorious for issuing fatwas for really dumb things. Too bad that such things are also notoriously lethal.
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you’re right, his original intention might not be to insult Catholicsm. but my point remains the same. i’m sure he didn’t want to insult Muslims as well but he took extra care for that not to happen. the same care he didn’t extend to Catholics. he’s probably like, “ah, i’m sure they won’t mind.” as supposed to, “oh ****, some radicals might drive a car bomb into my home.”

so still, thats the same spirit of bigotry. that he’s willing to put extra care not to insult Mulsims, but doesn’t put the same level of care for Catholics. therefore there is a double standard.

you know what, if he didn’t meantion that at all, i wouldn’t be riled up. but since he mentioned he has this reason for excluding a scene, then i begin to wonder why is it that one religion is treated this way and another religion is treated differently? you can say the Vatican and Rio are recognized world cities anyway, even if you take the religious significance out. but again the reason behind is whats bothering me. and the fact is, he did not forget about the Muslim Holy Sites, he was just too chicken to put them in because he has double standards.
 
jakasaki said:
OY VEY 😛

Yes, the koran is in Arabic.

Why the sad face when I said start a new thread?

There are many sects/divisions in islam and we have members here that are Sunni & Shia and Ahamdi & Ba’ah.
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Arabic? Doesn’t the koran have the same beginning as the bible?
 
We in western societies cannot keep sending the message that Islamic extremism is wrong and intolerable if we aren’t willing to step up in the face of it and say that we refuse to be intimidated by it. I don’t want to die any more than any other sane person would want to, but I’d rather die than live in a world where a group of bullies can force me to live according to their religion that I think is false just because they’re willing to kill me over a movie, book, speech, or whatever. That’s not any kind of life worth living. Sure, today it’s movie, but we’ve already seen from looking at the Christian minorities in the Middle East and certain parts of Europe what comes once Muslims don’t have to fear repression from the government becuase they run it or dictate to it. I dread the day that we won’t be able to ring church bells for fear of hurting some more Muslim feelings. This has already happened in Kosovo!
 
Zundrah said:
Yes it does! There is the story of Noah, Abraham and so on…
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Zundrah, you asked me:
Doesn’t the koran have the same beginning as the bible?
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I said no - our Bible starts with Genesis

The koran does not start with anything like the creation.

Yes, Noah & Abraham are in the koran but not the same as they are in the Bible.

Have you read the koran and compared the Biblical prophets against what the authors of koran wrote about them?

They are different on all levels and so is the muslim Isa/Jesus
 
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